Chai

Just yesterday, I had an experience with communication, and I totally blew my opportunity. A friend of mine, let us call her Evelina, were attending a music concert for a class of mine. On the way there, we had some direction confusion, a few times on the way. Apparently her parents used to live in San Francisco, so she called up her dad a couple times to ask for directions help. Anyway, somehow after one conversation with her dad, she started to talk about him. She talked about how she had many nicknames for him, some jokes they shared, and said a couple times, "I love my dad." It is evident how very affectionate her relationship with her dad is. As it went on, I had this increasing feeling that my friend Evelina must have been encouraging me to talk about my dad, to reach out, to open up. But inside, I just...I just couldn't do it. I was too afraid, or something. Inside I felt miserable, like, 'Why is she going on about her dad?" and "this isn't fair" and just sad, sad sad. Because I had the same sort of loving relationship with my dad. But now in retrospect I am thinking...I should have spoken up. I could have said, "Yeah, my relationship with my dad was also like that, very positive, and like you, I would hug my dad a lot, and talk to him jokingly." Then, I could have gone on to share some memory about my dad. Instead, I opted to be more cowardly, and just nodded, and said other things, and never mentioned my dad. My friend Evelina is not oblivious. She didn't mean to insensitive. If she forgot (though I don't know how she could; she's a friend I hang out with a lot at school and knows me pretty well), I forgive her that. I think she was purposely giving me the opportunity to share something about my dad. (And here I've been wanting to talk to people about him, too!) What bugs me is how, instead of taking the opportunity to share something about my dad, I blew it, and just went on being sad in my mind. I think I might go up to her, and sortof...say something, in gratefulness to her, for giving me that opportunity, and say, "You know, I was going to say..." in such a way that she won't feel crummy about having talked about her dad in front of me. It's hard, though. For me to open up, even given this bright shining opportunity, I didn't take it. :/ And when people mention their dads, I can't help but be sad... I shall try to grab more opportunities to communicate if they arise.

Hello all, Thank you for loving and thoughtful responses. Reading of your experiences does make me feel better, and I know I can talk to you guys. (((kissmekate))), you are right, I think. My peers don't really know how to handle something like this. I really loved your last sentence..."Remember that even though your dad is no longer there to hug you physically, he is always with you watching over you and sending his love." (((Jeanne))), it is definitely hard. Sometimes we have to just do what works for us - like you are, with going in the house later. This longing I have is shared by you, for some physical support... (((mlg))), I think you are right, that throwing myself into some activity more will help me feel less alone. I am religious, and one thing I have resolved to do is try to involve myself more with my spiritual activities and association. It is comforting, it really is, I just have to make the time to go and do it, or pick up the phone and talk to someone. I also hope to go more places with friends (there isn't much on-campus) (((Leanne))), I really like what you said, about just....just talk, even if it feels "weird" at first, and eventually it won't feel so weird. I'll just have to try, and be sure to pick my people carefully, and just start talking and get comfortable with that person. You do make sense, the whole accepting part, about once I've accepted they accept it...interesting. I'm so glad I have you all to talk to, otherwise I'd be even worse right now...

Dear Elizabeth, Your letter to your Sunny boy is so touching and sweet! Your love for him and his antics makes me smile. He is a very handsome cat, that pic of him in the sink is absolutely adorable. Pets definitely touch our hearts very deeply. I am still so very grateful for the cat I most recently had. He was one of my bestest friends ever, with the bluest eyes; he was also bulky like your cat, haha, my friends say, "your cat is so fat!" but, he's just got the Burmese bigness with the Siamese coloring and blue eyes. Thank you for sharing your amazing letter with us, and your adorable Sunny.

Natasha, I would just like to reach my hand out to you and say...I am here for you. You are not alone. I am so sorry you lost your dad. It is such a hard thing to go through. I am 20 and lost my dad in November 08. Please feel free to message me and talk to me, or ask questions, or anything like that. The community on this website is very comforting, wise, and gentle. This is a good, safe site to visit in your grief. ((((Hugs,)))) Chai

Dear community, I apologize for utterly spamming this board. I know there are other threads on loneliness...but I wanted to express my feelings here...and couldn't seem to find what I was looking for via 'search.' For some reason, I am sometimes okay during the day. But during the night, it is awful. I cry before I go to sleep. A lot. And I feel really lonely. Like if I woke up some friend in the middle of the night, I think they would be scared of my crazy crying and couldn't really comfort me. I have my bear to hug, but there is really no one to hug me, to comfort me when I am sad. In these moments, I think of my mom and how I wish she were here to hug me, if only I weren't at school hours away. And I think of my dad's hugs, and how his hands would be very callused, and how when I'd visit him I'd hear his flip flops flopping at like 3 in the morning...which was a comforting sound. Sometimes, I don't want to talk, I just want a hug, and no one is here to hug me. Of course, I have this wonderful site, and it's fabulous, I'd be so much worse the wear without it. But at the same time...I want people physically around me who can comfort and support me, too, and I don't really feel I have that much at school. And when I'm crying late at night, I can't call someone up...or, I'm crying too much to really talk, a total disgusting mess. Sometimes I really DO want to talk. I want to just sit down with someone and talk about my dad, not feelings or whatever, just memories and sharing. But I can't do this with my school friends (maybe others...), cause it feels weird... For instance, I briefly mentioned how chapter 2 in psychology is depressing, because the biology makes me think of when my dad was ill, and one of my friends said "You don't have to talk about it," really quick, like she was scared I was going to. So that made me think in my mind, 'um...thanks...guess you're not one of my 'safe' people I feel I can talk to'... I don't like that reaction, of people fearing my grief. Some of my school friends have seen me cry before. So why are they scared of seeing me cry now, over my dad, when I've a damn good reason to cry? I do look forward to counseling appointments on Mondays, but by the time Monday rolls around I'm like, 'okay, gotta focus on such-and-such issue" and feel it's not the right timing to just talk about memories. So, I just had to come here and type this...and vent...because I can't sleep. Thanks for reading.

Dear kath, Thank you for your heart-warming post. I am not a Christian but I am religious, and I personally agree with you about turning to God for shelter. My mother had her first child pass away in the 70s, and she said that what got her through her grief was taking shelter of God and scripture and really, really focusing on the spiritual view and side of her life. I will definitely look into that book you shared, not only for me but also for my uncle, who read a few very sweet Bible passages at my dad's memorial service. I am so happy to hear that today, you are feeling blessed and cared for. What a wonderful feeling. best wishes, Chai

Dear Karen, Thank you for your post. My dad had some stuff stolen when he was at the hospital in September, and I believe his driver's license was taken, as well as some notebooks (which I have been looking for, but realized they must be amongst the stolen things). So, you say the DMV is notified at most a month after? Well good, I hope they know now (it's been about 2 months), 'cause I don't want some guy running around with my dad's driver's license! I would've loved to have it, too, to keep.

Geri, your poem expressed a lot of the thoughts I am having. You really nailed it. Thank you for sharing!

So, I wrote this a while back...and it's sortof a vague little poem, about the experience of grief, and hope for some sort of newness, while still remembering our loved ones... It's not very direct. I guess you could call it...metaphorical. Not sure if it makes sense, but anyway... Untitled by Chai Pendulum pendulum endlessly shaking, waking waking the prisoner. He walks, he drifts, his eyes lift from the mist and meet the sun that has suddenly come into being. Being new, being alive he walks into the horizon Steps across a field of yellow lights No anger, no fright from the night anymore His heart is not sore Nor do his hands tremble in rage, in sustenance lost He is found, he is a cacophony of melodies that stutter and sink and slide into a new falling, a water falling of jubilant cries and sighs and no more lies. Speak, shout, leap through the air like the porpoise, the gazelle away from grief, from hell from the need to need nothing at all. Now it is fall and the golden leaves glitter, sparkle, lie in warm beds on the ground whispering, whispering of the love and light that they have received. ________________________

Oh, emptyinside... I'm so sorry you're hurting. I'm having a hurt moment right now, too. It's hard, when those certain little phrases, moments, come into our minds. We just want them to be right again. We want to go back, and make what was supposed to happen, what was the happy thing, to happen. To make them happy. To see them smile and hear them laugh. I wish I could give you some reassurance on the signs things...but I haven't had any sign, myself. I think it's a matter of faith, for the most part. It's hard to think that way, when everything's hurting inside. You didn't deny your dad a front seat, em. You are a wonderful, loving daughter. You have done everything that has needed to be done for your dad. He is watching over you. You have given him the gift of so many good shows, good times, your love and attention and care, and for that he is grateful as he watches over you now. I don't think that you saying you would take him to shows, and then not being able to now, is like a broken promise. Em, your story of how you cared for your dad is so amazing, I am sure your dad did not feel like there was any wrong done him. You were perfect. (((((((Hugs,))))))) Chai

Oh, lord. Help me, help me. I am feeling so sad right now. I just can't seem to stop thinking of him when I'm lying in my bed about to go to sleep. My mind just lights on various memories and wishes... I think it's because of tomorrow. Tomorrow is a big day for me. The spiritual guru that my dad and I both became inspired by, his birthday is tomorrow (technically today). I am going to a celebratioin of the wisdom and inspiration of this wise man from India. This is the man that my father and I would visit together. He has many followers, but my dad would get us to the front of the line rush, and speak to him. We would ask him questions, or just get blessings. When I first met him, it was my dad who introduced me, "This is my daughter." Later on in the year, in May, I am going to this festival in Houson that this wise man from India will be at...and I am thinking, how can I be there without my dad? How can I look into this wise man's beautiful blue eyes - my father had the most beautiful blue eyes, too - and not cry? I mean, the man would understand my crying, but...I just, the festival is a very happy ocassion, and everyone will be happy, but I will be sad because my dad won't be there. And tomorrow, so many nice people at this program...I don't think I'll be able to keep it together. That's okay, though, I mean, they knew my dad...I just miss him so much. I felt this physical pain in my chest. I haven't had the crying physically hurt, since the first week. But here I am just moments ago, lying in bed, crying, and it was soo physical, shaking and this panging pain in my chest...it's a thing I get, sometimes. When I get stressed, I get weird pangs, usually at my side (and sometimes because I need to drink more water). But now, by my heart, it hurts. It's gone now, now I'm writing and thinking, but...this feeling is just awful. What's more, I was talking to a friend today, and when she was talking about her weekend stuff, she said, "My dad's birthday is tomorrow." And we went on to talk about how old he was turning (51 or 52) and blah blah, no problem, right? I didn't skip a beat with the happy "oh, how old is he going to be?" yaddah. But inside, it hurt me. I mean, here are all these people my age who can just say that sort of thing, offhandedly, about their dads. But I can't. And my dad won't ever have a birthday ever again. Sad, sad...that's me right now. I really wish my mother were here, to sit with me and hug me...and of course I wish my dad were here too, to sit with me and hug me...as I cry over him. Just wanted to vent out my sad feelings...thanks for being here.

Marty, that article you posted...thank you. That article is like...wow. pow. I love it! I really want to implement those plans now, because that is totally how I feel. I want to talk about my dad a bunch and hear stories about him and everything, because I'm already thinking about him a lot and just thinking to myself about him isn't the same when I'm bursting to talk about him! Thank you very much. Also, the AMF looks like a good program. I'm a little shy, but I think there must be other people who are bereaved here on campus, and it would be nice to have a physical group to meet up with. I will look into making a group here.

Thank you all for your wonderful replies. They have made me smile. emptyinside and jackietnd, and well everyone, really - it is so good, somehow, to hear that I am not the only one who is having it hit hard sometimes, and wishing there were more pictures and things to remember our loved ones by. I think em, you have a good point - it's never enough! We just want that person back with us. Deb from Lodi, thank you for sharing that song. (Definitely add to the list, Marty!) I have been thinking a bit like that lately, how maybe if I just sortof...talk to him sometimes, or think of him during the day, I will get some joy (even though there is simultaneously sadness, but the point of the song is that he is here with me when I think of him). I've even been doing this thing in the morning; he always used to eat fruit every morning, and we'd sit and eat our fruit together. So I bought some fruit last week and I've been sitting down every morning with his picture while I eat my fruit, and I sortof talk to him over breakfast...some might say this is unhealthy to do, but it makes me feel happy, because in his framed picture, he has a really happy smile on his face. Mary Linda, I admit some of the pictures are not mine; it's in the photo credits in the description. I did take some of them, though, some of the places are from hikes and very important places close to my heart. Leeann, your post really made me think. I really like that idea, to be reminded of my dad by nature. It feels very right, to do that, and I think he would like that idea. It also reminds me of something I envisioned during a meditation, in which he told me that I could still hike with him, just by feeling the good energy around me of nature while I hike. Thank you all for your replies, and for watching the video. I would like to say, this thread is still open, because of course there will be more times where I'm feeling really sad...tonight I can go to bed feeling better though, after reading your replies.

I've been feeling really sad lately. I do feel sortof alone here. Not as bad as I did last semester, but still lonely. I'm so glad I have you guys to talk to! And my counselor, and journaling... The last couple nights, about a half hour before bed, it seems I start to think of everything and get sad. I can't believe my dad isn't around anymore. I was looking over old emails that we sent each other, and noted how happy he was to get old pictures of the two of us together. Those are currently the very same pictures treasured so much sitting in my photo album. I took him for granted so much! So many hikes we went on, and I feel I didn't take enough pictures of him. I thought he woud always be there. I only got a camera in 2006, and before that he was the one who took pictures. You can tell he loved me; random pictures of me popped up amongst the nature pictures from our hikes. He had a lot of stuff in storage, and unfortunately because he couldn't pay the money, apparently his storages got liquidated a few months into 2008. So, tons of memories I had with him (unless the CDs he burned of photos are mysteriously somehow still somewhere in his tiny apartment) are gone...I wish I had tons of his stuff to sort through, even though it would be heartbreaking! Instead, I came home after the memorial with only a box worth of stuff. One box! I've got a few shirts, and one CD of pictures, some music he listened to, some of the crystal and gem collection, my own pictures, and his notebooks (with his illegible handwriting, haha; I've been thinking of bringing them to a handwriting expert). A few more things, but not a lot. Even so though, these things are a treasure to have. I just sometimes wish I had more pictures of him. This one young girl who visited him for appointments a couple times and was at the memorial, is going to send me some videos of him she did. I can't wait! Besides the photo album, one thing I did that felt really good was make a nature/tribute video (I want to make more): Anyway, so...I've just been sad. I miss him a lot. I can't believe he isn't around anymore. It feels really strange and wrong. I feel very helpless, like I can do this and that to feel better, but ultimately he is still gone and I hate that he is gone. I want him back! Why did he have to go? He was one of the most precious people in my life, and now he's not here, gone for good. I want to see him and hug him and hear his laugh again...it hurts me so much, that in his last couple of months, he was in terrible pain, and I know some of the time he was very unhappy, even though he tried to hide it from me. He was in good spirits during our last visit, though. I wish that at LEAST, I could do those last couple of months again, more together. I would call him more, and visit more, and give him more than just a collage I made for him... It's so hard, guys. I get sad and want to just lay in bed forever. The only thing keeping me sleeping at night is these homeopathic pills I've been taking every night before bed, and I still feel tired during the day. The sadness really slams home.

I like C.S. Lewis acknowledging it is a struggle. I think that is very true. If we think it is going to be easy, or try to ignore it, the struggle will only be worse. So we must think of it as a struggle, even though that is scary. It's definitely tough. You've given me another reason to pick up Lewis' book on grief, firefly. Thank you.

Thank you for your response, Leann. I feel you bring up a good point, the issue of comfort. It is all about what we are comfortable with, and I guess it also what they are comfortable with, too. That is definitely an important factor. Also yes, we may say something and then get a response that we just aren't up to...that is a precaution to think about when sharing thoughts. Hmm. Maybe I just haven't found someone to talk to yet, who feels just right...I suppose, I should perhaps experiment talking with different people and feel who feels "safe." Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

Mary Linda, I am taking an introduction to psychology class which may shed some light on the issue of communication, as well as grief. But I fear psychology will have a rather clinical, distant view of it and not be very sensitive to the topic; rather, it may study in from a professor or student perspective instead of the perspective of one who is experiencing grief. Thank you for the tip, though, a school survey of some sort might do me good, because I know others, not just people grieving, have trouble communicating their true feelings in times of need.

Dear emptyinside, I believe that God loves us all and wishes us the best. He loves us, and hopes that we can love him, too. I cannot state something that is necessarily comforting, but I will say that in my belief, we who live on this earth are children of God, and our true place is with God in the spiritual sky. Those who leave us early are earlier gaining the embrace of God. I don't think it's that God won't put us through something we can't handle...it's that, when we think of God amidst our pain, the pain becomes easier to handle. Because by thinking of God, we are taking shelter, and do not have to feel so alone. In the book "I Wasn't Ready to Say Goodbye" by Brook Noel, the author says: "...no matter how much pain we're in, there is something inside of us stronger than the pain." I think this thing so strong inside of you, em, is love for your father. The love that you feel right now seems to be the source of all the pain, because if you were annoyed by your father like some people you know, you wouldn't feel so sad about losing him. But it is that very love for you which is a very, very strong force inside of you. Keep venting and questioning. We are here for you!

This is something that I, and I am sure others (including Nicole, who has sortof become my grief-talk buddy), have issues with. How do we communicate with those who do not understand what we are going through? Do we hide our sad feelings, or let the tears flow? What if we feel sad, but only internally and there are no tears? Should we talk to others about it? What if we want to talk to people in-the-moment, but feel we shouldn't or can't? This thread is about communicating with people we encounter in our daily life about grief, people who may not understand, but who are perhaps present during the day when we experience sad moments, and therefore become involved. Or DO they? Should we involve these people? Or just have a private moment to ourselves? Do we say "excuse me" and walk away? What if we are actually hoping, that somehow, we won't have to hide the sadness that we are experiencing day to day? What if it HURTS to hide the sadness, when it is churning so strongly inside of us? As a college student, I do not know a lot of people in my age group who have experienced the loss of a parent as I have. I do think I should be open with my friends, but I am held back by my own fear of burdening them, or even worse, of experiencing an insincere or frightened response from them that would cause some more sad feelings in me. I feel repressed, sometimes, when I have moments of grief in my day-to-day life, and no one to turn to. Perhaps it is something that I myself can remedy, by "reaching out." That's why I made this thread, to ask - How do we deal with this? In a recent email to Nicole, I came upon the idea of just...letting it out. Acknowledge the feelings, and talking about them when you feel them. Tucking them away is probably more hurting us, right? [As a disclaimer of sorts I want to say, that I know to some grief is a private matter, and the idea of sharing it feels really weird. This is just my personal feeling, of wanting to share. No one should feel forced to share if they don't want to. Partly my sharing urge is because, now that he is gone, I want to share my dad with people. I want to talk to people about him, even if they didn't know him. Also, I think this board is a form of communication.] My dad in his healing work advocated a method of releasing the emotions, acknowledging the feelings and bringing them out into the open, even if the person you are revealing them to might have some trouble with the truth. I said to Nicole: "I want them to understand, but I realize that they will need my help if I expect them to understand. At the same time, I fear that they are afraid of my grief, of that topic, or that I would be burdening them by confiding my sad thoughts with them. Friends are supposed to be confidantes though, are they not? It is only making you and I sadder, that we cannot confide in our friends. I think it is important, tough though it may be to spit the words out, to acknowledge our sadness in front of people. It is hard. For instance, today something in class made me think of my father, and I almost started talking to a friend about it, but didn't. In retrospect I am thinking, I should. Our friends do not know what it is like to lose a parent, but they can still act as a listening ear or give us a hug. Without grabbing that opportunity, we are experiencing even in our friend groups, a distancing, in which we are in one place so different than them. They will never be in that exact place with us, having not lost parents, but they can stand beside us and be there for us in any way they can. Just having the distance lessened, instead of feeling that yawning, lonely gap, I think will help." Do any of you have similar issues communicating (outside of with people on this board and perhaps a select few, or even there may be trouble finding a "select few") with people? Any tips? Help? This is something I am dealing with every day. And it even pops upon me in random moments, like when I reminded of my dad in class and start feeling sad. Should I just depend on my Monday counseling appointsment for talking about this? I would prefer to be able to open up to my friends, and not feel like I cannot talk to them about something that is so central and forefront in my mind right now.

Hello all, I just wanted to say, I have contacted Nicole and for the past couple weeks or so, we have been emailing each other privately. It is very good to email someone. I find that it also helps me to talk to someone in my age group, and I am discovering, as I try to help Nicole, ways to help myself. I just end up typing, and typing, and...things come out, ideas and realizations, that I would not have come up with otherwise. It's really neat. I would like to share something I wrote, about the mutual trouble Nicole and I are having with friends at school, and how to talk to them about it, when we know they do not understand what we are going through: " I am sorry that our friends are not understanding, and I wish there were some way to help them to understand. Otherwise, we will continue to feel lonely, won't we? Ah, it is tough. I want them to understand, but I realize that they will need my help if I expect them to understand. At the same time, I fear that they are afraid of my grief, of that topic, or that I would be burdening them by confiding my sad thoughts with them. Friends are supposed to be confidantes though, are they not? It is only making you and I sadder, that we cannot confide in our friends. I think it is important, tough though it may be to spit the words out, to acknowledge our sadness in front of people. It is hard. For instance, today something in class made me think of my father, and I almost started talking to a friend about it, but didn't. In retrospect I am thinking, I should. Our friends do not know what it is like to lose a parent, but they can still act as a listening ear or give us a hug. So when you friend asks if you are ok, well, be honest. If you are not ok, maybe you would feel better to sit down and talk to him about what you are feeling? I am going to try to do this more amongst my friends, and publicly acknowledge my feelings. this way, there is some hope that they can somewhat understand, not what we are going through, but our current mood, at least. Without grabbing that opportunity, we are experiencing even in our friend groups, a distancing, in which we are in one place so different than them. They will never be in that exact place with us, having not lost parents, but they can stand beside us and be there for us in any way they can. Just having the distance lessened, instead of feeling that yawning, lonely gap, I think will help." I am not the voice of experience, but the ideas I am having about how Nicole and I can talk to our friends all spring from my father. In his healing work, he helped people to release emotions and to acknowledge their feelings. I think this method makes sense, so I am thinking, how can we use this to feel less lonely amongst our friends? Please tell me what you think. I might post this in another thread on communication or something.

Lauren, I am so sorry for the loss of your father. You and your grandfather are in my prayers. Please take care of yourself. It is hard to think of taking care of yourself sometimes, but it is so important. Please see us as arms to hug you tightly, and open ears ready to listen.

Memories are, of course, gifts to us from our loved ones. The tiniest thing remembered can set me into crying...but at the same time, I'm so glad that I have these memories, to cherish and to go over again and again. Also, I think the special places we have that we associate with our loved ones are gifts. And I have gained a lot of friends - my dad's friends, some I never even knew before the memorial. And, of course, all of you, too.

Marty, oh my gosh, thank you for posting that song "Live For Me." It had me using up a bunch of my Kleenex stash in one go! But, I really love it. I really think that song is comforting, and encouraging, and healing. It makes me more determined to keep on, keep on, even though it's hard. I am going to have to come back to that song over and over. Wow.

(((MartyT))), thank you so much for that music page, it is wonderful to go there and see that list of songs. I can't wait to hear each and every one of them! It is amazing to see how music touches so many hearts. (((mlg))), that song "Heaven Needed a Hero"...wow. I loved it. Thank you all for sharing. There are so many great songs on this thread, that I find myself listening and re-listening; I guess the hunt for new songs is temporarily paused for me, as I continue to go through that great list Marty compiled for us.

Dear Jeanne, Your post strikes me very poignantly. I think the anger and bitterness and jealousy is all something that we somehow manage to mix up in our time of grief, because we are so confused. I am glad to know that you are reassured that you are not alone in these feelings, nor are you alone in having lost a loved one. I think you have a good point, about the anger in the moment our loved one is gone from us. It only takes one second. Life is so fragile. I like that your post acknowledges these negative feelings, and the sadness, but ultimately you end your post with a group feeling, that as long as we are together - and we are, because in our losses, we share each other - we can overcome these negative feelings churning within us. It is good to know I'm not alone, and I hope that we can overcome these feelings, and become lighter. hugs, Chai