Tears...

[lyn]

I need to let this out again. Have been crying since last night. I watched an old movie 'Ghost'..and it triggered so much tears again. How I wish to feel his physical presence, to feel his touch..to hear his voice.

Is our loved one still with us but we cannot just feel them? I miss him that it hurts too much again..

~I take your love with me always..all the time baby..

[karenb]

Hi Lyn,

Some how or another we tend to choose the things that can really set us off and you picked one that is a tear-jerker in the best of times. I did that, too, so don't feel alone. The pain you're feeling makes you feel so alone and it's a real physical pain. Try to get through this. It may happen again, but at least you know you'll get a reprieve. It's so hard and we're here with you. My Jack has been gone 2 1/2 years so these horrible pains have lessened quite a bit. You'll get through it and I bet you come out much stronger than you can imagine. Hang in there.

Your friend, Karen

[DesertBob]

Wow, Lyn, I'm not sure I could handle Ghost yet myself. It was one of Linda's favorites, too. No pennies crawling up the walls here, either, though.

I took a pass on the current in-theater movie, P.S. I Love You for similar reasons. Eventually I will set aside a "catharsis day" to watch one or two three-hankie movies like that, but the time doesn't "feel" right yet for me. It probably represents some aspect of letting go and moving on that I'm not ready for.

I wish I knew what to say about the presence of our departed loved ones. The only thing I know for sure is that in life, our spirits became entwined with theirs in ways that death cannot destroy. In that sense they are for sure with us. I often sense her presence but I can't tell you if it's an echo of her, or actually her. Either way it's pretty powerful, and somehow, seeking something more concrete than that seems ... not wrong to me, but perhaps not the best. In this life I sense that part of our personal growth is to get comfortable with mystery, and this is certainly the ultimate mystery.

Anyway ... a virtual hug to you, Lyn. Your beloved was obviously well loved.

--Bob

I need to let this out again. Have been crying since last night. I watched an old movie 'Ghost'..and it triggered so much tears again. How I wish to feel his physical presence, to feel his touch..to hear his voice.

Is our loved one still with us but we cannot just feel them? I miss him that it hurts too much again..

~I take your love with me always..all the time baby..

[Corinne]

Lyn,

That is one of the hardest movies to watch. It has been 11yrs. since Jimmy is gone and I still cannot watch the entire movie the pain is too intense. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Here is a big hug ((( HUG ))).

Hugs & prayer,

Corinne

[suzanne]

Lyn

I actually did the same thing a couple of Sundays ago. I knew I should switch the channel but for some reason I was glued to it and of course it did bring misery and tears. All the while thinking why I am doing this to myself? But in the end it made it feel like Will was close by me. Maybe my imagination, maybe not.

Suzanne

Edited January 24, 2008 by suzanne

[kayc]

Wow, I don't think I could handle "Ghost" even yet! Maybe we choose things that we can relate to? All I can say is, you're a braver woman than me! Big hugs!!

[lyn]

Thank you for the hugs and support my dear friends. I guess this is all part of the process?? Few months after his death, I couldnt even bring myself to watch any movie or shows at all, much more a love story. I lose my desire to read any books. I have always been a booklover. I lose my passion for music, when all my life music has been a big part of me.

Slowly, I noticed I am beginning to regain these interests. I started listening to music again and it has helped a lot in my healing. I have started to read books again and have started to watch movies which I can relate to.

I guess my road to healing continues step by step. And everytime, I can feel him encouraging me, prodding me to go on. I noticed that whenever I feel happy, I feel his presence too, I feel his joy too and I feel at peace. One thing I'm sure, I will always carry his love with me in every step I make.

[KathyG]

I couldn't read anything at all for the first few weeks in spite of my love for books. I'm starting to read again, but I still have some trouble concentrating. And I have to restrict the subject matter - can't handle love stories or anything that reminds me too much of the past.

Music has become a big escape for me. My husband's and my musical tastes are/were very different, so I can still listen to most of my stuff without crying.

[WendyJ]

Lyn my friend you are stronger than I am, I saw that on and flipped it off so fast the remote almost flew out of my hand ! Do you feel like you got over a hurdle though since you got through watching it?

Love,

Wendy

[lyn]

Wendy, I used to do that before, I stayed away from any movies/ any shows/ any music. I wouldnt say that I got over the hurdle, but it is more like a cathartic experience for me. I immersed myself to watching this kind of movies and allow myself to go through the different emotions. It is like going through a workshop to let out all the feelings. Yes, I cried a lot, and it was a very exhausting experience, but after a few hours I feel some kind of peace. I wouldnt say that I am letting go for He will always be with me, but I'm learning now how to live and ride the 'roller-coaster' thing.

[kayc]

I still try not to think about it too deeply, I know I keep my emotions at bay as much as I can, it's just too hard and hurts too deeply, but then I have not only the losing him to death, but the fact that he hurt me so deeply with his drug use/theft of me/lies to me. It's very hard to deal with...when I see something extremely romantic, I can hardly handle it. I just feel that part of my life is gone now and it's time to face life without it. I'm sure it's different for everyone, both their situation and how they choose to handle it. Not like there's a right way or wrong way, but rather we have to find our own way.

[DesertBob]

Personally I think that is something anyone over about 50 needs to give some serious thought to, whether or not they had positive romantic experience in the past. When you hit 50 you have to start taking into account how much time you have left, and how much of that is going to be very limited by old age and illness. You start to get more particular about what you will risk an unknowable but shrinking number of "good years" on.

In my case, my Dad made it to 87 and he was in pretty decent health until 85, despite the fact that he smoked the first 40 years of his life and didn't get the quality of nutrition or medical care that I have. It is likely then that I will have some decent quality of life into my 90's, all things being equal. But you never know. And when you take on a life partner, you are doubling your odds that someone is going to have major problems, perhaps prematurely or disproportionately. And frankly I've had my fill of that sort of thing -- it is a joyless slog and I can do without any more of that soul-crushing futility. I can handle my own demise, but I don't know that I'd want to risk pulling someone else down with me. I don't know if I can risk being pulled down with someone else. It's all well and good to imagine that we will find marriage a comfort in those final years and help each other but the truth is that the stress of chronic illness can dismantle a relationship by exposing all its vulnerabilities and weaknesses, thus leaving you with little but open-ended suffering -- with the added pain that your relationship goes into the toilet.

Over against this approaching storm is the fact that it takes years to locate, woo, marry and comfortably integrate (maybe) two different lives. It's high maintenance even when it goes well. It ties you down and limits you in ways. I'd like to slow down. I enjoy lots of "think time". I'd like to reduce my work stress by being pickier about the contracts I accept, even if it means some lean times now and then. It's harder to do that when you have a spouse feeling insecure about it. And so forth. There are a lot of things that could be better or worse for me in a relationship.

Given that I am comfortable in my own skin, and have a life that I enjoy, and have seen both the joys and sorrows of married life, and my time is much more limited than it was in between my two marriages ... given that I have kids and grandkids and good friends ... given that my late wife's mother and aunt are like my own family and I don't want things to be awkward for them ... I am thinking twice about whether I would *ever* want to go there again. There are far worse fates than being a monk.

I never say never, but ... I dunno. Oh wait ... more grief work! Goodie!

What do you think, people. Am I being too pessimistic? Or just pragmatic?

--Bob

It's very hard to deal with...when I see something extremely romantic, I can hardly handle it. I just feel that part of my life is gone now and it's time to face life without it.

[suzanne]

Bob

I totally agree with you. Once you pass 50 you tend to have a different perspective of life, especially teamed with the loss of your spouse. I not willing to risk the remainder of my years for a relationship that more than likely would end as a disaster. Rarely is there room in one for 3 people and I would be carrying Will right along beside me. Nope, not for me.

Suzanne

[karenb]

Hi Bob,

Well, it's just my opinion, but you appear to look at things like they are, not pessimistically. We've all are going through touch times, and I feel that changes how we "see" our lives and our futures. Personally, I don't even think about anyone else in my life. I, too, have my family, my grandchildren, my friends and, for now, the kind of life that is relatively comfortable. There's no reason to upset this apple cart. Down the road it might change but I'm certainly not heading in that direction on purpose, just trying to live my life the best I can.

Your friend, Karen

[kayc]

There are all different kinds of relationships, not all of them are super romantic, but can be satisfying in other ways. A relationship is whatever the two people bring to it and choose to make of it. Myself, I've chosen not to even try to replace what I had, but have gone for something totally different. In a way, that still leaves George his legacy and doesn't expect or want the same thing from John, I entered this new relationship on totally different terms than my previous one, which for me, is good. Every relationship has it's own specialness to offer. I remember George for the romantic he was and for a special time in my life that no one before or after him will have ever shared with me...yet I enter my life with John as a totally new venture and appreciate him for who he is. I think he would much rather it be that way anyway, no one wants to try to fill another's shoes, but be loved for who they are.

[DesertBob]

Suzanne:

There are those who would disagree with you and say that there is more or less an infinite capacity to love and that deciding not to love again is just closing yourself off, that every love is different, etc etc. But I lean your way. I feel subjectively exactly like Linda took part of me with her and left part of herself with me. Now I might be imagining some or all of that but my philosophy is, if it walks, smells and quacks like a Duck, you ought to at least treat it like a real duck until you have more information!

Given that strong feeling, well, three's a crowd and also, probably not necessary (or wise).

Karenb:

Yes, that mirrors some of my thinking. My life is more stable and hopeful than at any time in the last thirty years. I have good prospects for a satisfying rest-of-my-life. Over here in the other corner you have the option to pursue something new and the most favorable statistics I can find, applied to my particular situation more hopefully than is probably prudent, tell me that I have at best a 20% chance of ending up with a relationship that is "okay or better", i.e., it doesn't require much rationalization to say that it's worth it. And the odds of finding what we all really hope for -- a home-run marriage where your greatest joy is the sharing of your life with the other person with very little conflict and relational stress -- is at best 5 percent. Or like playing Russian Roulette with all but one chamber loaded. Them's young man's odds. I no longer have the hubris of youth to go spit in the eye of fate or think that life's challenges don't apply to me.

Kayc:

On the other hand, if I *were* going to get into a new relationship, it would probably be along the lines you describe. Something quite different. It would have to be; for the woman, Linda would be the 800 lb gorilla in the room. She'd be a very intimidating act to follow!

General disclaimer:

Now that Linda is beyond the reach of the Women's Union Enforcement Division, I can reveal that she let me in on a trade secret of the Sisterhood: how to try different ideas on for size. Or what we guys often think of as "women randomly changing their minds", or more simply, "Insanity". She taught me to use my imagination to inhabit different points of view experimentally. This is something that we guys tend to lack the imagination to do, and which many women use in an undisciplined and somewhat unconscious way, but I've found it very useful. You can follow an idea to its logical (or illogical) conclusion and then come at it from a different angle and make useful comparisons. Today I'm inhabiting the "heck with it" approach to see how far I can go with it. I am finding I can go quite far, and it's very promising. However as I told my son, no one is allowed to give me a hard time if I change my mind in 6 months or two years or two hours ;-)

--Bob

[lyn]

Personally I think that is something anyone over about 50 needs to give some serious thought to, whether or not they had positive romantic experience in the past. When you hit 50 you have to start taking into account how much time you have left, and how much of that is going to be very limited by old age and illness. You start to get more particular about what you will risk an unknowable but shrinking number of "good years" on.

I've been pondering on this thought many times too. Nothing on this world is permanent anymore. Good for most of you here, you were given the chance to share a marriage and many years with your loved one and you have kids. It still hurts to think that I was deprived of this chance. My love and I both knew that his years are limited due to his illness, and we were only asking and praying for few years to be together, yet we were not given that chance.

I dont know my fate, i dont know what lies ahead. In a matter of seconds, my life can be changed unexpectedly or tragically as what happened almost 8 months ago. I wonder how much time I have left..I wonder if I will ever love that way again, and everytime I think of this, I talked to him and tell him that he should be the one to choose the one for me, and that he should give me a sign when that time comes. I find comfort in knowing that he never left me at all, I feel his love, his guidance and his encouragement whenever I feel down. It still hurts so much though..and I miss him badly..

~~Life continues for both of us.

I am with you because I love you and I am in the Light.

[karenb]

Lyn....I'm keeping your post in my heart overnight...it's a part of me, too. Talk to you tomorrow. Sleep peacefully, my friend.

Your friend, Karen

[DesertBob]

Good thoughts, Lyn.

Life is all about letting go and accepting change. The ultimate letting go is our own death, but sometimes long before that some of our dreams die too. Since many of the dreams and illusions we have -- particularly those surrounding love and marriage -- are very unrealistic, it is not unusual or surprising that some of those go down in flames.

Most of us have a script written partly by us and partly by societal conditioning that is some variation of, "I will marry my high school sweetheart, live together in total bliss for 60 years, and grow old together with nothing but happy memories". For many, two or three kids are thrown in there, that are supposed to be obedient and grateful and make you proud by turning out exactly right.

Someone quoted the lyrics to a song in this forum earlier today that basically envisions a young couple lying under the stars, kissing all night, and the woman slipping into dreamland in her man's arms. Fine and dandy, but the ground is hard, it's cold outside, they are both exhausted from the day's work, worried about the bills, and they have to get up at 5 am the next day to start it all over again. So guess how often THAT is going to play out in real life.

That is an awful lot to expect from reality, and much of life seems to consist of figuring this out. I don't know why it takes us so long to get it. I know it's still sinking in for me. The thing is, if I hadn't expected so much from life I would not be so disappointed about it now. And yet if I had not been so overly optimistic and naive I probably wouldn't have tried half the stuff I did -- and some of that stuff turned out well. It's one of those paradoxes that makes you shake your head.

Anyway, I'm sorry that even your scaled-down and more realistic expectations didn't play out. That is really sad. Still, you had what you had and as Steven King would say, "there's that at least". It isn't what you expected or hoped for, but so many people who appear to have it all are hurting in empty marriages. At least we knew love. And as you point out, we still know it.

--Bob

I've been pondering on this thought many times too. Nothing on this world is permanent anymore. Good for most of you here, you were given the chance to share a marriage and many years with your loved one and you have kids. It still hurts to think that I was deprived of this chance. My love and I both knew that his years are limited due to his illness, and we were only asking and praying for few years to be together, yet we were not given that chance.

[kayc]

Bob,

I quoted that song...and I had that with George...we had love, romance, we were a really tight couple, we loved each other more than anything in the world and I never dreamed it could be less than forever...

Then right before he died I found out he lied to me a million times, that he was responsible for our financial dilemna, that he had a drug habit. That blew me away. Then he died. Since that time I have discovered at least a million more lies he told me...not only to cover his drug habit but things like his slipping off to see his ex girlfriend behind my back. So much for romance. A lot of you had the romance and it was true, you had wonderful spouses that lived up to what they said, so it's not like "Drift off to dream" is a total fantasy. But fantasy is often accompanied by reality...it has right along side of it, medical bills, being tired, the car breaking down, and the child not turning out like you'd expected. Somehow, most of us adults incorporate the reality into our lives right along with the wonderful dreams we had with our spouse and we accept both as part of our world. But for now, the fantasies came to a screeching halt the day we found out our loved one was dying...or died. All we have left are memories. To live life with only the harsh realities and none of the dreams would deprive us of a huge meaning and quality of life that most of us aren't ready to accept. We had what we had, the good and the bad, all wrapped together, but now we can't reach either...only the day to day tasks that we find we must take care of...and the daunting task of rebuilding our lives.

I live in Oregon, and 20some years ago there was a volcanic eruption to the north of us in our neighboring state of Washington (remember, Karen?). I remember it was a Sunday morning and going outside and our car was covered with ash, so many miles away from the eruption. A year later some friends of our took us on a helicopter ride above Mt. St. Helens and we got to see for ourselves the incredible rebuilding of nature that had taken place! It was breathtaking to witness that. There were new flora and habitat that had not been there previously. Nothing was the same, it was all altered, but it was beautiful in it's own new way. I think of that analogy as being like our lives...nothing is the same but we have the materials with which to rebuild and we just need to do it somehow. It seems it is harder for us than nature...nature instinctively knows what to do and it happens...with us, we have to figure it out and we aren't given a handbook...but we do have each other to help us along the way.

[missingcharlie]

Just had to tell you that my daughter and I went to see "PS I love you" on Christmas. I did pretty well through the movie, but I cried all the way home. I lost my beloved Charlie a little over 3 years ago. I still miss him and love him very much!! Don't know if I will ever become "involved" with anyone again either - as Bob said, Never say never. Stranger things have happened!

Hugs to all of you!!

Patti

[DesertBob]

Kayc,

That is true and it's probably a skill I haven't learned well. I am a realist / pragmatist / intellectual who was raised by a couple of incurable romantics. My parent's coping skills were to hold to their illusions and trust that it would all work out somehow. Those coping skills served them fairly well, but they served me very poorly because my literal mind was apparently incapable of taking my parent's dreamscape with a grain of salt -- I thought it was The Way Things Worked. And boy did I get a rude awakening.

So for me, life not going the way it's "supposed" to creates massive cognitive dissonance and frustrates the bejesus out of me. The solution (for me) has been to figure out how it's actually "supposed" to go, and accepting that. Compelling popular illusions are my enemy there. Hence my reaction. No disrespect to your dreams intended. Maybe someday I will even learn to daydream again without it getting the best of me. That would be nice. I think. ;-)

--Bob

Somehow, most of us adults incorporate the reality into our lives right along with the wonderful dreams we had with our spouse and we accept both as part of our world.

[KathyG]

Good thread...it's interesting to read other people's perspectives on new relationships after loss.

My father died when my mother was the age I am now (58), and she never remarried or even dated anyone else. She always said she didn't want another relationship because she and Dad had had the best and she knew she'd never find that level of happiness again.

Now I understand exactly what she felt. My first marriage lasted two decades, but only the first five years were happy and when we divorced, I swore I never wanted another long-term relationship. Then Bill found me and changed everything. So I've been through one terrible marriage that lasted way too long - and one wonderful marriage that ended much too soon. I've already had the love of my life, and like my mother, can't imagine experiencing anything like it again or settling for less.

Bob said it best: when you reach a certain age, you've seen enough of life to know how difficult it is to find and maintain a happy, fulfilling relationship and how lucky you were to find it in the first place. The odds don't favor recapturing that bliss with someone else. I don't know yet what my rebuilt life will look like, but I still feel married to Bill and always will. There's no need for anyone else.

[lyn]

I had what I had and I'm glad of it. We used to say that eventhough we only shared few months together, it seemed like sharing decades of our lives. He used to tell me that not every couple have the love and closeness we shared eventhough most of them have too many years together.

I had what I had and I didnt have any regrets. I have given my all, have showned him all the love I can give. This comforts me, that he always carries my love with him wherever he is. I have to stop thinking why we were not given the chance, still I am glad I have shared the last few months of his life and have given him joy.

I couldnt say of marriage life for I've never been married. I am 29 and my dreams were shattered 8 months ago. We used to discuss marriage life, that it is not a bed of roses, that there will be lots of hard times but we believe we will be able to get through them as long as we are together. Things turn out differently. At this point, I am not ready for any relationship and I dont know if I will ever love that way again. Fate has strange ways of doing things. I take it one day at a time. I allow fate and nature take their course. Let God's will be done, not mine.