Pollara

Plum you did your best and you waited so much time. If he doesn't needs any kind of help how can you provide it? You were very patient, if you think that you were so many years together. I definitely wouldn't and not a lot of other women could have done that. And you didn't asked for something irrational and at the end of the day I wonder how can they do everything with their friends and not with us, like we are not even friends but complete strangers. Anyway I am glad you moved on and it was nice meeting you because it is difficult to find people that understand the situation. At least if he comes back, just for the fun of the thing, please come with an update! I hope to be happy with your life from now on. And on the other hand it is good that at least you learn it before you got married or something.

well in my case, not in this specific one, but I mean on my exes case it happens like that. But I thought that this is the game that life "plays" to us. I mean when you want someone and need him and cry over him etc you cannot have him. And then when you have move on, he is there and asking for your attention. I don't know why it happens but it does. Well my "plan" is not to contact him, but if I hear that he is getting worse maybe I will try to ask him how is he doing etc and if he shows me that he doesn't want me to be there either as a friend I will just let him die. No I didn't say that in a hostile manner or whatever, but the only thing I can do for someone that we spend some time together and I would have done it for every friend of mine, was trying to support them. But if someones not only doesn't accept my help but s/he is irritated over it, then cry me a river. I am just editing this post to add that yesterday I was talking to one of my psychologist friends and there was another psychologist guy with her at that time we were talking and as he heard the matter he told me that my ex should ask the help of an expert because panic attacks are a symptom that his body tells him that he cannot handle the pressure anymore. And then he also mentioned something else: that my only role in the whole case should only be supportive and nothing else, because if I try to act as a healer, when my "service" will be over, healer will be thrown away. I have never thought of it like that, but it is true that I know a lot of cases like that. Not grieving specifically related. But for instance, when someone act as a healer to someone that wants to forget a breaking up. Well in this way, maybe it might be better that I am not related to his depression (I don't mean it as being the subject of his depression rather than being the healer of it). And something happier, my work asked me if I want to extend my contract for another 6 months so I am thinking over it, cause one of the basic reasons that I wanted to return to my country to be with my ex and of course my friends. But of course my friends won't make a fuss if I delay my returning and we are not together with my ex, I cannot see a reason of telling no.

not a good thing the time that happens, but I read something that it happens the time you realize that something should be done about it. So in this essence, isn't realization a good thing? I wonder... Well yes I want to be support but since he was the one who break it up and he knows that I still care, in his mind he might think me as a burden. That I help him in order to be back together or something. I don't know how they think. but in any case, if I reappear 2 months after I cannot think but that it would be ok

Yeah it sounds to me like totally similar cases. And even if he broke up with me, he told to one of our common friends that time will tell whether we will be again or not in the future. So it is kind of similar to before, that he just rushed to get to a decision so as not to have extra pressure but he is in a total loss like your guy. Probably what he told about my immaturity was just excuses but in any case, I don't care about it. But seeing that he is getting worse I think that this situation will keep on for years. I thought that at least someone has some bright moments or something but he is getting worse. More depressed than ever. And to think that he is going out with his friends, he is going on trips. I mean he is kind of trying. OK this is not real activities that you will fell into a routine and start to forget, like working, but they are kind of activities. I am starting to afraid that he might even have suicidal tendencies. I hope not. But I agree, subconsciously I think that they don't actually want to move on to the next stage. And yes they are the same, they don't want counselor, they don't want to read books, but they say that they want to get rid of it. How you can get rid of something if you don't do nothing by yourself?

Yes I have read about it, but I actually don't know in what kind of situation he is in since he didn't talk to me about it. The only thing I know is that he knows that this situation will not last forever and that he knows to "get rid of it". But he doesn't do anything about. I mean in theory what he is thinking is right but in practice he doesn't do anything about it. He said that he will go to the gym and start searching for a job but as I hear from our common friends he just doesn't do anything. Fortunately at least he is going out with them. I think that he wants to do things in order to focus in something else, but he just can't started himself. if he is alone if you get what I mean. I mean it is easy to go out because he will be with friends etc but he is "bored" of going to the gym himself or starting searching for a new job. I don't know whether panic attacks are good during grieving or not. I read somewhere that they usually happen when the person wants to escape from this situation but he feels unable to do it. I don't know but it really saddens me to see him in such a condition. I was thinking to talk to him at sometime if he keeps on like that. I mean if he is like that after two months and ask him what exactly feels. I don't know. On the one hand I really don't want to be a burden to him and the only thing that I want is to help him as I would do with any friend of mine, but on the other hand I am hesitating since last time we spoke was to tell him that I think the reason that he break off with me was other than the one he told me and he might think me as a burden or that I will bring the relationship to the table or something. Well I can try it.

I doubt he will do it. Because the last time we spoke and he told me that he is in total loss and he doesn't know anything I told him if he wants to see an expert, since his sister is seeing someone and he told me no and thanks for caring. Then I told him if he wanted to suggest him some books and he also told me no. I guess that he is not ready to move on from his grief yet although he says that he wants and that he knows that he won't be like that all his life he doesn't do anything about it.

Hi njames. I am really sorry that your fiance treat you this way and that you became one more. OK it is not strange that she became ovearattached to you, but this with the buying things is really strange. Could you explain it in more details cause I don't get it. As for the rest of her behavior just be prepared for whatever. I don't know what grief is and I only started to learn more only after my ex lost his mother. What I learnt is that everyone grieves in a different way. But as already stated, the 3 weeks is just the initial state.

Oh that is great news Plum! seems like everyone is moving on. I am happy that you had great holidays! As far as your guy is concerned, he seems that he is not sure yet but he doesn't want you out of his life but he cannot do anything about it. I was reading some articles about complicated grief and I am wondering, how long after the loss someone can be categorized as having complicated grief? I read in an article that the intense period is something close to 6 months more or less. My ex has already passed the 4 months and things seems to get worse (since I heard that he also had panic attacks). He doesn't speak to me via chat and I don't want to bother him, but i was wondering, if this thing keeps on, should I talk to him and trying to convince him to see a specialist?

It is actions that count and I don't know how you respond to these words, but it seems to me that he is trying to see whether you still have feelings for him

These days I am doing pretty fine I can tell. I believe that in a month from now I will be totally OK. I still thinking him from times to times but I cannot think of any future together or something, I don't hold any grudge against him and I don't care whether to return to my country or not. But today I received a phone call from one of our common friends and she told me that she heard about our breaking up and that my ex told her pretty much the same things that he told to me, and that in the future we might be together etc. I really didn't pay any attention to it cause I cannot find any reason of holding my hopes up and then she told me that he had a panic attack and I kind of felt worried. It is kind of sad that even if someday we will be back together, I will be the person that didn't support him when he needed it the most. But it is also kind of sad that I cannot help him neither as a friend. And I felt sad in a different way. not the way as I did before or after the breaking up. But that he feels so terrible and I cannot help him

Well unfortunately fate doesn't owe anything to anyone. Think it the other way, Thomas wouldn't have left you if you really care about him. Well in any case I am an individual who doesn't believe in any religion (so in this way no to incarnation, heaven or hell) and not to things like fate and destiny. We are the ones that define our destiny and fate with our actions. In my opinion your therapist is right. How can you forget him and move on if you repeatedly saying that you will meet someone who is not equal to Ben? You are prejudiced and biased before you even meet him And I don't know, but I don't find it so difficult to find someone. Do you really want to find him or you just afraid that he will break your illusion and then you don't have something to cling on?

Hmm 20% is not that bad at all. I would give less. What happen and you give so much?

What I meant when I said that I won't remember someone after 30 years wasn't that I will totally forget him. If I won't be in amnesia state or something of course I will remember the person but I won't miss him. It is different matter to remember someone who was a part of your life for some time than to remember him and want him to be with you

Well it depends! I usually have a different reaction. But I guess it is only me, because to every other I have said this, noone considers it normal lol. When I have hope I am actually able to move on. Because I am saying: OK he is gonna come back. So now until he comes let's do thing by myself etc. And in the end I end up forgetting the thing that I was waiting to return. But at Jenna's case I don't know if it is her hope or that she just feels nostalgia or I don't know. I am pretty sure that I won't remember someone after 30 years if I don't see him at all

The only excuse that I can give if he ever was to come back, which I doubt that is the case, but supposed he does, is the fact that our relationship wasn't strong and solid enough at that time to last through this devastating moment. I know that deep inside me I am probably making excuses and this would probably have happened even if we were more years together, but knowing myself, I know that if I am still single and have feelings for him, I will give him a second chance by listening first his excuses and then probably by giving this justification to myself.

I hope so KayC. I don't want to end up like Jenna of thinking a guy after 30 years. Sorry Jenna, I am not saying it in any offending way, but I guess this will cause you a great deal of stress that I couldn't even imagine it! I am trying these days to focus on doing other things but it is quite a difficult. I have difficulties even focusing on my job and then I am thinking that my ex is probably getting through the same but 100 times more intense than me. In any case the only solution I can think of is making a program and try to stick to it even if I don't know. Otherwise, if I don't make this program, I will end up thinking over it again and again. And you know all this time I was pretty sure that I did the right thing, but lately even started questioning this. Like I say that I should have tried to talk to him more about his matter (although I know it was evident that he didn't want it) or that I should have gone to the funeral or returned for summer. At that time he had just returned from his trip here and he was more distant than before so I thought that it would be better not to go. But how could I know since he didn't know himself. Then I am saying that if I had gone I would have prevented his depression etc. But what my friends are saying (probably trying to comfort me) is that if I went there and things didn't finally work out, he would never try it again, but now there is a slight chance that he will try it after his healing. On the other side there are some friends of mine that told me that the problem is distance itself and if I don't return at some point there is no chance of us getting back together because I should approach him in a friendly way that I cannot do it from here. I really started to wondering, because all of us we had an ldr, were there any cases that they were together and this thing happened? I am thinking that this distance might have been the problem itself. I mean all the stories I have read, there was distance relationship related. In any case I will have to make a program and followed whether I like it or not in the beginning and then stick to it until I forget

Wow 30 years are more than enough! I really don't know how you can get over it. I actually am starting to worry whether I can surpass my break up. But I thought that usually in the beginning you don't let yourself go and you are thinking that he was the only one for you and stuff like that. But in your case you seem to believe that. Or you have strongly convince yourself that this is the case. So why don't you try to contact him? Maybe if you meet him once again your illusion might get shattered

Helena good luck to you too! I am very happy that you are feeling better and I hope by the time I will too. And you know at the end of the day, if it is to happen it will happen. What I really afraid was that I might move on and when he will come back I will be with another. But screw this. They were the ones that broke up with us and things got to this. They were the ones that had the upper hand but at the end chose to be selfish. We were there to support us but they didn't want us. We did our best and after few months, when we will look back we will know that at least we did our best.

Well it seems that you want this Ben guy for more than ten years. I believe that you want Ben because you cannot have him and you are farsighted. You cannot see what you have next to you but only when you lose it. In any case, by repeating that Ben is the only one for you cannot do you any good. I guess he was the first really big love of your life and because you blame yourself you think that things got wrong. But you know, even if you did the right things, you might be with Ben and then break up again. It isn't something you did wrong or that Sandy girl was better than you in something, but the fact that you and Ben didn't match so well together even if you think the opposite. When a couple break ups for some reasons (and of course I don't mean due to inevitable reasons such as death or illness) there is something more behind it. If you were that good together you would have still be together. People can be good and pretend in the beginning of a relationship and show their good self, but you cannot pretend forever. There will always be someone that will like the characteristics of yours that someone else didn't. Even if you didn't beg for Ben or tell him your suicidal thoughts, I believe at the end of the day, you will just prolong your relationship but not be together with him again. Well at least this is my opinion of course. I believe that if you try to accept that Ben is not the only one and only and find a guy that you care and he cares for you, you will manage to get over Ben. But if you continuously saying that Ben is the only one, you never give permission to yourself (subconsciously) to be with another one. I had read a book when I was younger, where the heroine wants her first love even if she is married, because they broke up so suddenly and with an unfair way. So one day he leaves her husband and she is going to find him, only to realize that what she wanted was a utopia. An ideal relationship that had made in her mind all these years.

Well, what I told him hadn't done anything to do on how he handled things rather on how I did like "I put aside all my selfishness in order for him to feel better even if I felt neglected because I thought it was more serious matter than our relationship. It is just that I cannot buy it that he left me in order not to wait for him, but there must have been another reason and if there is any possibility of us getting back together and he can be honest with it and I won't mind or cut him out of my life if he doesn't". That was pretty much the meaning. What I got was of course a denial of what he have said to others (I didn't want to put the matter about immaturity directly because it wasn't said to me) and that he really doesn't know, he cannot make a right assessment, he doesn't think clearly, he even thought of taking antidepressants, that he thanks me for my help and for caring about him, but he doesn't need any help and that he is really sorry about being selfish. The only thing I can think of his denial (the fact that he doesn't tells me the truth) is that he wants to avoid conflict. But you know it is fun that there are a lot of common friends now that they know that I am immature or that we break up due to distance reasons and I don't know anything. Also, if really those were the reasons, shouldn't he come and discuss it with me? How can you break up with someone because you have a problem with his/her character but never tell it to him/her? How come you say the one day to common friends that we are doing great (while we are not talking) and the other that I was immature? I mean these things don't make sense. And KayC you know I got lot of apologies from my guy, but what should I do them? At the end of the day he might not even believe those apologies. His ingratitude on how I handled his matter and his blaming me for immaturity were enough. My psychologists friends tell me not to blame him and not to take him seriously because of his wrong judge because he really cannot think right at the moment and he is angry towards everyone and maybe at that time he was angry with me and took something that I did that under normal circumstances wouldn't care lot and make an excuse in order to have for the break up. But you know I really don't blame him for his wrong assessments -not anymore- rather than he didn't respect me and told to our common friends these things. He could have also gone with the distance thing with them too. I found rather ungrateful to tell such a thing to common friends for a girl that she put him over everything. (and even the distance is fun for those who know that I would return back in some months, but it's ok is the easy excuse and I don't feel offended about it).

yeah I know that for some this might be a step backwards for him coming back. But it's ok because I told everything that I hold so many months and now I am ok with it whether he is coming back or not. He knows what I felt and how unfair he was with me (or at least he will know in the future) so I don't care anymore. My ex called me yesterday to see how things are going between us so I told him about the immature thing and he was mad. He told me that my "boyfriend" don't have right sense of judge at all and it I could be blamed for everything else rather but immaturity. And also that when his friend met him (yeah for some reasons I have a lot of commons friends with my previous ex too) they told him that they found my current ex kind of immature but he didn't tell me anything all this time because he didn't want to sound bitter or something.

Well in my opinion do what you want to do In order not to have regrets. In the end you will know that you did your best. Of course he might remember all these after all these pass and feel guilt towards the way he behaved but this is not that bad in my opinion.we are not saints anyway When I learnt about my immaturity I found him in the chat and I asked him but I also told him what I felt all these 3 months. Now I don't have any regrets. I thought that I was very patient and at least we will be in good terms after the end. Well in fact we will be if we come to face each other, but I thought that everything went very convenient regarding me and even our breaking up was very convenient to him. So I decided to load him with some guilt. I know that ok this characterization of mine might have been on the spear of the moment but I really don't care since it is unfair towards a girl that didn't ask anything from him and put aside her feelings. I also know that this might have limited my chances of getting him back, but I really don't care anymore. So I told him what I was feeling all these months. By the way to the rest of our common friends he told that we broke up due to distance. So I guess he just tries to find excuses in order not to say that he is still grieving, but it is funny since I don't have an official excuse.

yeah you are right! Even if he misunderstood something he could have just tell to others that things didn't work between us finally and not try to put the blame on me. I mean even if he really believes that, you don't say that to our common friends. I kind of feel sad of all the 3,5 months I spend trying to justify him and giving him excuses. At least he said that he knows that he has been selfish towards me. You don't say. It would have been also better to admit the actual reasons. Well I just ended up in the conclusion that he needed to find an excuse to himself in order to break up with me, because he cannot even admit it to himself that he was the problem. But I would prefer to tell me at least that we won't be never again be together rather than leave an open possibility. I guess he just wants to avoid conflict. Well the other problem is that he is still kind and things towards me if I speak to him. He is so kind that he becomes coward in order to keep his kindness. He didn't tell me immature to my face (although I would have preferred him to do it). Towards me he says he is sorry, and how selfish he is but he doesn't want me to wait and he really doesn't know, but he has no energy towards everything and other bull shits!

Well it is kind of a broken phone line since I didn't learn it directly from her, she said it to another girl, who said it to another friend of mine who said it to me, but I don't believe that the meaning would have changed so much along the way. But this characterization for me is kinda of irrational. Out of true curiosity I would like to know how he ended up on it. Because chronically taken it, the facts were that he was really in love with me and then he found out that I am immature. Taken it from his behavior towards me, he was really nice before the death and became distant after. So after death he realized I was immature. But how can he realized that at that time since he wasn't talking to me and it was his choice. I tried a lot of times to see how he feels and if he wants to talk about it and he told me no. The only reason I can think is the fact that I don't want to have family. Some of my friends told me that I already did a lot and I couldn't have fall to a lowest point than this, but I didn't see it that way. I never posed any pressure at him and I believe I did my best in order to make him feel better. Something that every immature girl would have done huh? So I wanted him to know my point of view and I just went and tell him. What is the worst that he can do? Break up with me? But he already did that! Don't talk to me again? I really don't care to have a friend that he thinks of me as immature and the worst thing go and tell it to the first person who ask him why did we break up. In the worst case scenario I lost a chance for him to return to me. I don't think I hold such a chance to begin with, since he thinks of me as immature. So I believe that I didn't lose much. It is not that I try to make excuses for him or something or still hold my hopes, but could he be that due to his grieving at his anger stage he finds problems in everyone? Because he told me that he cannot think clearly. Could it be that something that I said or done was misunderstood? Or something that I said and done which otherwise wouldn't have give any attention to it, he gave it more and he exaggerated? I really don't know how he went and said something like that. I mean he could have said that he stopped being in love with me or he saw that we are not compatible, because in general he is very kind and don't say bad things about anyone or characterizations, not to mention to a common friend. Some of my friends saying that since he is hiding from everyone the fact that he grieves, he would definitely not tell to anyone the real reason (the grieving). But I still believe he could have come up with a kinder excuse to say, even if he was totally drunk. Not to mention that when you are drunk you are saying the truth. I am starting to believe that he is the kind of guy that he likes to have problems (subconsciously of course). Yesterday I asked him to go and see and counselor or maybe to propose him something to read and he told me no. But apart from the death (which of course is a real big problem) he doesn't have any other problems. I mean, imagine to have the death and to be unemployed without anyone helping you and without friends etc. Not to mention that he continuously said about his ex how crazy and paranoid she was but he was with her for 4 years. He was continuously breaking up with her and then returned. How can you return to someone that you have said to anyone that you broke up with her because she is crazy? I believe that maybe the girl wasn't that crazy at the end of the day, but his actions made her have a specific way of dealing over things, or he is the kind of guy that he likes this crazy or difficult situations in order to stay in his problems. No girl will be perfect for him. The ex was crazy, I was immature, who knows what the next girl could be? Or he might even return to me or to his ex, in order to keep on his dramatic overeactions. I know that maybe in the past he had more energy to spend on sick situations and maybe now he doesn't but they say that in order to predict the future, you should take a look at the past actions. So his actions were irrational from back then: I have a girlfriend that she is crazy. I break up with her and tell to everyone that I don't want to be with a crazy girl. I return to the crazy girl and this keeps on for 4 years.

Hi Jenna! I am really sorry for your loss. I am in the same situation. But I think it will be better to write all the story because in my opinion it doesn't matter what you did, but what you are going to do in the future! And I really cannot answer to you what you should have done in the past. The what ifs are not a good solution anyway