Pollara

well why does she has to do something with her issues if she doesn't have any problem with them? I mean, you cannot change someone if the someone doesn't want to change himself first. For instance, I can give you a simple example, people say I am arrogant, narcissits and I think to highly of myself. And I know that it is like that. I am fully aware of it. As I am fully aware of the fact that in a lot of cases this has lead to loss with a lot of relationships (not romantic I mean in general with people). But to me it is that I am like that. This is a part of my character and I like it the way I am. I wouldn't change it for noone. No psychiatrist has evern examined me, but I guess they will have find something in my personality. To say continuously that your ex has this adhd without never got examined and say that she needs to change it for me it is like asking her to change her character. I don't see any reason why she has to do that. You can instead find a better match for you who will lack this characteristic since you don't like it. To me it seems that people cannot accept rejection and try to find things to justify it. In your case why her disorder is the problem or the fact that you think that you pushed her when she was grieving? Why isn't it the too obvious? That she wasn't much into you to begin with?

well you can do that if you actually think that your dad was good to me, but to me it seems that you try to find a way to get closer to her and manipulate her. Because subconsiously you might think that she will see how a great guy you are and return back to you!

I hope you find her. Look I have seen a lot of girls-women like her. Either it is her disorder as you might think or it is that women in general crave for attention. In any case the vast majority have a guy taken for granted and do whatever they want with their lives. When things go bad, they turn back to him. None of them ended up in a real relationship. I don't know how to tell you, but I believe that this girl is nor right for you. She might be a really nice person etc, no doubt about it since I don't know her personally, but I don't believe she respects you. She is taking advantage of you with or without her grief. Why wouldn't you go for a girl that she respect you and see you romantically as well? Also, no matter how many voicemails etc you hear, if you don't take an examination of the person himself you cannot tell what disorder he or she might have. there is a high possibility that it has what you and your doctor think but it might not. In order to decide what someone has the person itself needed and no matter how well you think you convey her thoughts it is not the same as she would have done.

Well I really don't know what to say. How did he come to this conclusion? And also all relationship advisors the first thing to advice is to remove all attachments to your ex and then focus on yourself and go no contact. I have never heard of going over and over the pics everyday. Once I did it by mistake while I was trying to remove and it mess my whole week. Imagine to do that everyday. I am not a doctor but I have friends who are psychologists and this doesn't sound healthy to me. Unless he wants to give you hopes in order not to tell you the truth and you collapse. And how can someone tell what kind of disorder someone has without examining her and judging by a mere incident? To me she is not that messed as you want to believe. Or maybe she wasn't is the right term. She had just taken you for granted and when she found guys more interesting than you (according to her) she was having a relationship with them. When things didn't turn out well she came back to you. But to my humble opinion she is not in love with you. She knows that you will already be there and she is taking advantage of it. If this isn't abusive then what is it?

Arbitrator, I will be really blunt to the point that you might not like what I am going to say, but in the future you will see that I don't have any bad intentions. I don't know what your doctor has said to you and I am not a doctor myself, but to me it is totally unforgivable to see one hour per day the images of the person you lost. Frankly, until now I knew the only good solution to move on was to cut off any attachments, including gifts, images and personal stuffs. Also to me it seems that your doctor wants to give you hopes in staying in this sick situation instead of moving on. You didn't do anything wrong and your girl for me was abusing you even before the death. She left once and she returned, you didn't even had a normal relationship. I don't believe she told lies to you that she is seeing another guy. Why do you want a girl that she doesn't seem to care for you that much anyway?

I don't know. I decided to cut off excuses and any hope that we are going to be togerher ever again. I decided to be realist and since then, I am doing better. All the time that I was trying to find excuses regarding his grief etc I only harmed myself. Today a common friend came and asked me, when are you going to return to your country? I told her I don't know and I am not in a hurry since there is nothing waiting for me there, friends included. I don't care whether she will transfer it to him or not. Enough is enough. For your own sake, I try to persuade anyone not to hold any hopes. Even 20% is true, it is their own problem after all. In the end you know what? My ex seems to do very well while on the other hand I stayed 7.5 months in hell which I currently believe is worse than his. Yes I know that some people here might get pissed off about what I am saying but I really don't care

I can tell for sure that it doesn't go with the duration. I was 5 months with my ex and now there is almost 4.5 months that we have broken up and still thinking of him! But GuiltHaunted I am wishing you the best! Keep my fingers crossed

Hi donttouchthis. How old are you? I am asking because age might play a role in this ocassion. And since you look young enough to me you won't wait her forever anyway. For me this wasn't even a real relationship to begin with and also it wasn't a relationship between equals since she was answering to you when she was feeling like that. Since she is in a young age as well, she might have time to keep on her games with you if she feels better

Hi arbitrator. I am really sorry that you are in the same position as we did. Don't say that it was a big mistake that you told her that you miss her so much cause she already had started dating with the other guy. See the problem in most of the cases is that people get into depression due to grieving and don't have it into them to start a new relationship. they don't have the energy to deal with the matters a relationship needs. Since she found the energy for another guy and couldn't find it for you. I will be blunt, the chances that your girlfriend will return to you are really low. Since she found energy for some other I cannot see why you relate this to her grief. Well it might have a correlation but the fact is that she is with another guy. Why do you want to be with a girl that she found another guy? I know that we like to excuse them and justify them and attribute everything to grief but for me we should look a little ourselves. Well it would have been nice to understand that you were the best for her and return back but what if the other guy dumps her and she will come back? will you accept her? And in any case, for some unknown reason, it seems that people like to give hope to others even if the situation is a dead end end. If a friend of mine was telling me that I would just tell him to forget her and even if she comes back to not accept her. Grief can be responsible for a lot of thing but not to extent to lose our self respect.

Fred why do you think something like that? That they want their friend for themselves? I don't believe they interfered by themselves if your ex hadn't mentioned to them about your text. Maybe she even refered to the ego centric behavior herslef. No I don't mean that you are like that, but people in their grieving period don't have a clear mind. I mean, maybe this was her assumption and the girlfriend just transfer you this. And as you mentioned, yes you could be the perfect support for the one case and not for the other, because some people as KayC for example wanted people around them while other don't. It is obvious that you might have been the best for one person and not for the other because of their different characters. My friends appreciate in me that I can wake them up from their illusion and return them to reality even in the hardest of the cases. I didn't try to do this to my ex, but I am pretty sure that he wouldn't appreciate it. And the majority - if not all- the people I know that they lost someone it was completely the oppossite. they turned to their SO. Even my psychologist friends told me that there are cases like that but it is not the usual. Even the sister of my ex didn't turn out like that. And you know my ex wasn't introverted person like your girlfriend. But I had seen that when it was down he used to isolated. I strongly believe that the outcome would have been the same. As you said, I moved all my personal needs aside. I left him all the communication to him, I didn't complain why he doesn't speak to me, I by myself gave him space and I even didn't say how I felt because I didn't want him to feel bad about it. But you know what? I was just delaying the inevitable. And now he doesn't even talk to me. For me, you didn't do anything wrong. You might think a lot about yourself, which for me is natural, but except from the photo you didn't say something to add pressure to her. You only say to us your thoughts, and it is natural because you need someone to tell them. And as you said at the end of the day there isn't any right or wrong.

KayC at the end of the month there will be 4 months after the break up and 2.5 months without contact. Our last contact was back at mid July when he told me that he was going to visit the psychiatrist and that he will start antidepressants. I spoke to him after one week or so to see how things went but no answer and at the begining of September (almost 1.5 after) I sent him a text: "hey how are you :)"? Nothing special related to us or our relationship or whatever. Well KayC he hadn't spoken to you, but you didn' t try to reach him in the interim as I recall right? I find it really rude especially for someone that he speaks to all of his exes. And in the unfortunate case that I ll return in my country and encounter him what should I do? Speak to him like nothing has happened? OK I will try to avoid anything like that but you never know. My best friend also tries to avoid them as well

Yes it is true, I don't want to forget that. And I doubt that hypnosis can do something like that. Maybe just repress my feelings for him. At least to think him as any of my previous exes. without all this biterness and my life messed up like that. In any case I came to the point of understand their need for isolation, or for shutting only their SO. I could understand a break no matter how big it is, but the total break up, no I don't get it. And in my case the: not speak at all either. It goes to the point of rudeness

I don't consider the Facebook message as a testing of waters or real contact. I believe that she just wanted to tell you about the mail.

DML the fact that she has Borderline Personality Disorder is something that you believe yourself and not the evaluation of a therapist right? Of course she might have I don't doubt it, but she might have something more serious or something different. For example, how do you know that she hasn't got Bipolar Personality Disorder? You saw an episode of CSI (if I recall) and you came to this conclusion. Only a specialist can make a right assesment. I believe that your girlfriend has some issues but what I have already told was that you should have let her at the mental clinic. Of course noone wants to be there and the person with the problem is the last one to admit that s/he has a problem. I recall in my bachelor when we learnt about schizophrenia a case when the person thought that she is totally ok, that everyone is hearing voices but they are just good at covering. For now on, I believe you should move away from her. I don't know how to explain you, but if a person has some mental issues, it is difficult to have a normal communication with them. I don't know if someone feeds her these thoughts? She seems irrational enough to have them by herself.

SadMellyDelly it is good that you are so understanding but probably you are the exception and you are the only one that will move her needs aside. You came to this forum to write, so you probably yourself searched for storeis as well. I am in a total mess as well, why should I forgot this?Should I kill myself in order to prove that I have it hard? And I didn't even searched for stories like that. When my ex mother died, I started searching to learn more about the grieving period and how should I stand next to him and as I was searching I saw a post from here and I ended up here. And there weren't only stories for this that I read, I also searched deep how depression in general affects people and not only grief. I really admire you because you are the only one that can understand them so well. Personally I cannot totally understand it and if their friends cannot either, how could I? And it is so good that you have such a big heart that you can move your needs aside. And I am talking from a point that I moved my needs aside, I didn't ask for anything and I didn't add pressure. I even offered myself to give him space and let him have communication whenever he feels like it. But 7 months after this I still feel a mess and helpless. Noone cared about how I feel, so my only regret is that since either way things would have turned out this way, I should have told how I feel even if this made my ex have guilts or hated me. He hates me anyway. And unfortunately for me it is not as easy as you describe. I hope I could got to dating again. I just cannot. Not only because I am sticked on this past that I won't have again and to my ex, but because I will never trust again anyone. And yeah I know he didn't cheat me, but believe me, I would have preffered it 1000 times this was to be the case than this unfairness. And I don't know how things are in your culture, but I know a lot of people that they were grieving, but this is the first time I saw something like that. So yes, how could I understand it since I have never seen it? In our culture the usual is for someone to want people with him/her especially the loved ones. I even have friends that their girlfriends dumped them because they couldn't stand anymore their cries. But for someone to break up with the other no it is the first time that I see something like that. And except from the stories that I read and the psychologists friends of mine had told me to take care of, I hadn't encountered something like that in my whole life. And having only the first hand experience and the readings cannot get me to the point of understand it 100% either. And it is very good that you can smile when you are thinking him but I am the total oppossite. Each and every time I think of him only bitterness comes. So I am trying to find a way not to think of him. I have even thought of going to hypnosis in order to make me totally forgot him like he had never existed. But I don't know if this works anyway. I am doing my best of not thinking about him, I even blocked our common friends in order not to see something related to him and be sad again. I am doing so many activities in order to just return home and sleep and work more than ever but still the problem remains. You have a big hear to say that in the interim he can date as many girls as he wants, although the interim implies that someone will come back. In any case what I don't get is not why someone don't have the energy to devote into a relationship, but how can s/he totally forgot about your existence. Or even hating you? That, I will never get it. Someone who was swearing that you were the best thing ever happened to you and do all things for you, how can he turn to a complete stranger and doesn't want any kind of contact with you. No matter how many years will pass I will always remember this and try to understand it.

Well unlikely other people, I kind of disagree. I understand what you did and make them think that you are egocentric but I am really sick and tired of this. You know SadMellyDelly for me it is almost like a grieving period all the thing that I am going through and I have never felt like this in my life and I have lost people close to me due to death and still didn't had any reaction. Of course I wasn't pushy in any way to my ex because this is out of my character, but yes I hear and read again and again that I should respect his grief and move my needs aside? But why should I do that? Who respected me? Who cared about me? Is is like because it is his grief that he is completely forgiven and forsaken? You know the world doesn't move around them and of course not only about me. OK I understand the huge dimensions that it has taken on his mind, but really why? Shouldn't they realize how much they hurt other people? Not like they will care but anyway. Well when it comes to Fred, for me it wasn't bad that he answered. He was kind enough to answer to her message. But he did the mistake to tell her that his heart was shuttered by her reaction and that he is waiting for answers. I really don't undestand what kind of answers are you waiting for Fred. The girl told you to break up because she is grieving, she is in depression and she doesn't have it in her to devote to a relationship. She doesn't have any energy for it. I know that you cannot undestand it and noone that hasn't been into depression cannot fully understand it. No they are not against you or nothing and it is hard not to take it personally and you are trying to think what you did wrong in the past etc You didn't do anything wrong. At this point everything is wrong for them anyway. At this point it is your self centerism, at my occasion since I wasn't impatient and self centered it was my immaturity (the only thing that someone cannot blame). Go figure. Just don't do anything until Monday and wait. And don't talk to her about your relationship. Also it wouldn't come as a surprise to me if she doesn't call you at the end of the day. And KayC when I say about the outcome it is the statistics that they are talking. I don't know if Fred had read all the stories, but when I came here I read each and every story, in this and in other forums as well. What I saw it was that the vast majority didn't return in a romantic way to their exes (sorry 3 cases in 200 that I ve read don't count as succeses). Anyway, in these cases I saw a lot of reactions, pushy reactions, really understanding reactions, really giving space and have patience reaction but in the end the outcome was the same. That is why I believe that in the end it is all about you. Because I really believe that no matter how hard you try in the end it is all up to the griever. And SadMellyDelly you might be a genuine patient and understanding person but unfortunatelly not all people are like that and they don't know about grief. I admit that I learnt by first hand experience and I am pretty sure that if I hadn't found the forum by chance I might have been thinking worse than Fred does now. My friends were thinking 10 times "worse" than him. How can you not take it personally? They were telling me things like: it is obvious that he got bored of you, he might reconcilled with his ex and stuff like that. Even some of our common friends didn't get it, how could I? Of course I did my best because I have read these post before hand. What I am saying it it that Fred's reaction is the normal one. Edit:And by the way I just realised that there hasn't been even one month since the death. I hadn't fully understand or didn't realize that this is so recent. Fred, even if your ex doesn't fell into depression like the other cases, one month again is still too little.

Well that seems good news Fred. She seems that she wants to keep contact with you. It might be that she doesn't have it on her to have a relationship with you at that time but she want you in her life at a friend level for the time being.

Well Fred I am on your shoes and I really can feel you. But as KayC had already mention, I doubt that you will get more answers even if she feels better and more comfortable with you. As I have already said I didn't believe that my ex will stop talking to me or not even be at a friend level. He hadn't done that with any of his exes except one that it ended in a bad way. He even speaks to his girlfriends from highschool, so I really thought that in the end we will stay at friendly terms and I might have a chance or a good talk at some point. But no and I really don't know why. And although it hurts me because he thought of me as a great support, he had meet me to all his friends, to his deceased mother, he had a photo of us as screensaver on his phone and one photo of us at msn, he was saying how happy he was with me but in the end he doesn't want to have any kind of connection with me. And at the end of the day, I believe that their depression is such, that even if you manage to stay friends or even something more, I really believe that they cannot give you any answers? What kind of answers do you want? Why did she got depressed? Why did she push you away? Why aren't you together now? It is as they say, they just don't know anything about anything. They feel an apathy towards everything. I know that you don't care about the other fishes as I don't care either. I also had the best time of my last 5 or 10 years but unfortunately it seems that all the good in the life are always temporary or that maybe for some reason there is someone more suitable to make us happy. It took me a lot of years to find this someone but I guess we cannot have everything

Fred I have the what ifs. And it is also fun in its way because if their parents (my ex, your ex, kayc's etc) hadn't die the case would have been different. Yes you will probably have stayed together. Even my friends believe that me and my ex would have still been together. The what ifs are the worst. BUT, for me they are the worst when you could have done something else and you didn't do it. You cannot do anything with things that are not dependent to you. Yes it is unfair that this happened to us. As unfair is that she lost her father. It is also unfair that the majority of people want people around them to comfort them, or a lot are turning into their significant other and in our cases it was the total opposite. Seriously, when I was thinking what is going to happen when his mother will die, was that he would be really sad and that he would have wanted me around to comfort him. But no, unfortunately Fred we were all unlucky. For me the biggest what if it is, what if I had chased it more. When my ex broke up with me he asked me, what do you think?we are two in this relationship and I cannot decide like that. But I told him that although it is not what I want I resprect his decision, I know that these things require a lot of time and when he will feel better he can find me. I make a thousand times this scenario in my mind with me trying to convince him not to break things off at that time. What if I had been to my country for summer. Of course my rational self tells me that the outcome would have been the same. I am sorry that I cannot give you any further advice on how to get her back, because if I knew it I would have already done the same. As KayC mentioned it isn't personal. No matter how long you would have been together or if he was other the outcome would have been the same. On the one hand is not personal, bt unfortunately it can turn to personal, if they make a connection with you and their dark hours. I hope this won't be the case. Τhe only thing that I can tell you is that I don't believe that your girlfriend she will let people near her as relationships in the near future. If you want to wait then be patient and let her alone. If not try to move on (I know better said than done) and if she feels like it at some time in the future she knows where to find you. Moving on is a win-win situation anyway. There are two outcomes. You move on, you are happy with your life. If she comes back and you are single you can give her a second chance and it is your win. If she comes back and you are happy with another girl it is your win anyway. But imagine to wait and in the end nothing happens or the worst, learn that she found another, what will you do in this case?Think of yourself as stupid that you didn't move on already. Personally I don't hold hopes, or maybe I hold some subconscious one, but realistically taking the subject no I don't believe that there is going to be any kind of relationship between me and my ex. not even in friendly level. I am trying to find a way to move on and I hope the best for you. And as KayC and my previous ex who are friends told: this is the given case, her father died, she broke up with you, you cannot do something to change the past, we don't have a time machine and even if we had it might have been inevitable. So this is the given and we should do what is best for the given. It kills me to see my ex at the chat and not to talk at me. Not even a single hi. It kills me to see him uploading photos on Facebook from his holidays (think that we were planning our holidays together before this happended), it kills me that every common friend comes and since he doesn't know what he is been going through they tell me how much fun he has, but what can I do?

Fred, the problem is that you try to think her actions by rationality. When someone has depression cannot think with a clear mind or be rational. I believe she meant what she told you, but at that point she cannot be with you. She broke off things with you because she doesn't have it on her to devote in a relationship. In which way you will try to think of it you won't manage to do anything. Yes she has a problem, yes she is in the twilight zone. Yes she cares about you. And yes maybe in the past she put other people over herself, but at that time she can only think of herself and what she is going through. Are you able to wait and maybe don't get anything in the end? If yes, then set a time limit and wait patiently. If not just try to move on. She won't become better from the one day to other and maybe not even from one month to other. And even if she cared deeply about you, it doesn't mean that after her depression she will still care about you in a romantic way. I know that it is difficult to understand it as it is for me, but this is how things are. If you read other people's stories in this forum you will find a lot of similarities but usually the results were the same. Even the guy who started this thread, he was with his girlfriend for so many years. Other girls were engaged. I was in the same situation with you and I also don't have any reason to doubt what my ex told me, that he believed them at that time. But now we are not even friends. I know that you cannot do something else rather than thinking about it, but is it something you can do? No. So decide what you will do by yourself. Because at the end of the day, noone guarantees that she will return to you, no matter how much she loved you. I have made this dialogue with myself and my friends for the last 4-5 months. I even give myself a glimpse of hope. That it cannot be, when and if he feels better since he meant all that, he will fly back to me. But on the one hand you never know the when and if and on the other hand, as already mentioned, some people for some reason make links with the deceased and their grieving process. we remind them of dark times and we cannot be with them. And also if you read the stories, noone gave a logical reason for breaking up. Please don't try to get into her mind, you will end up crazy. For me there are only two options. Wait or move on without waiting. You cannot do something else. You can try to force yourself over her but in my opinion you won't get any results. To be honest I don't believe that if you do that you will push the other to the point of no return but I don't believe you will get something out of it either. For me either you push or not you will have the same result. I am not to the pushy side anyway in my character and it wil be out of my character to push someone, but I can say that I admire those that they are like that. Since she asked you to be alone and break things off right now the only thing you can tell her is that you will be there for her.

Not only people that they are grieving, but people that are in depression in general choose to shut out their loved ones. It is strange because but maybe he loved her more than he thought or who knows? Or maybe he realized that their relationship could have been different?

Glad to read this CoCoa. But I really believe that this depends on the person. I didn't add any pressure to my ex. I gave him space myself and after the break off I only came in contact twice in 3.5 months to see how he is doing and of course he didn't come in contact with me. I really thougth that in the end we will stay friends because of my attitude but it seems that this is not the case. I strongly believe that if it was other woman/girl in my shoes she would have added pressure from the first month. I myself told him please don't mind me, stay with yourself, have communication whenever you feel like and even when he told me to break up I told him that I fully understand him. I even have heard stories about people that added pressure and they got what they wanted or stayed friends in the very end. So I really don't believe it has to do only with your attitude, rather than he respects you as a person. Hope everything will be fine in the end

yeah true that as well. Although I really don't get it how only we remind them their dark times and not their friends etc but it seems to be like that in a lot of cases. For me a friend gave me an explanation, that he only met me just a while before the death while his friends were always there. Well ok for me was the little of time, but as we have seen there were cases with a lot of time as well. I believe there isn't a certain rule or something. If it is someone to have a dark reminder because of us, s/he will have it anyway for some reason. Also, those who won't seek any help (like a counselor or psychologist or something) I believe that they might have this tendency more comparing to others who will seek help and find a "healthier" way to copy it. For me personally this looks not only irrational but really strange. I have never make a link to persons with bad situations. I can make links with places, with perfumes, with songs, even with foods, but never with persons

It is the same for me. I am not a drama queen and I want something and altough I am younger no thanks. This guy knew from the begining but I have trust issues but he kept on telling that he won't betray my trust, he was insisting on keep on our relationship in a long distance level saying that he doesn't have a problem on waiting for me and other things. In the end he doesn't want to have any kind of relationship to me. It would have been 1000 easier for me to have cheated on me. I would just have said: oh he was a dork and he didn't mean anything. Unluckily in this case I know that he probably meant a majority of what he was saying at the time he was saying them and this is worse. Anyway, Fred, you say: is it a text too much for her? Yes at that point even a text it is too much. I was wondering the same before we even break up. is it a goodnight copy/paste sms too much for him?yes it was. And in your case, to me it is clear that she broke things off with you so there is not any reason for answering to you. She might not even checked her email. And my advice to you comes this way since you are impatient as you say. Even if her email has a glimpse of hope, grieving doesn't last two months and then it is over. In the best case scenario it might. But, remember that there are let's say two categories. Those who wants people around them at their grief and those that they don't. Obviously your girlfriend fits the second category. At this case, I don't believe that she will be ok after some weeks as you are hoping. Of course she won't stay forever alone, but you don't seem to me the guy that can wait. This might take one year or even more. Of course I can only talk by first hand experience and from what I have read and know from my psychologist friends. Think that it is just the begining of her grief journey. In the begining my ex was ok. Even after 3 weeks that he started feeling down he was still ok but distant. but when I had asked him (before he comes to see me) if he wants to return for summer he was: of course I want. Why do you ask so stupid things? When you will come I will start feeling better. And think that he even made a try and came to visit me. As he told me when he broke things off, he couldn't realized when he was falling deeper and deeper into depression. So yes, in the previous week your girlfriend might have the courage to send you a text but I doubt she will do it again.

Well I will explain in other message what I meant but currently, I can tell that I haven't seen the actuall email but a translation. It might loses something, but the way I understand it is that she wants to break up. At least for the time being. And it is clear. I don't know if the people that tell you it doesn't mean that just don't want to dissapoint you or they can actually see the message in your language but she says: I cannot put any effort, I want to do whatever I want without giving any account for this and "After some time I probably will be able to let you in again but currently that's not what I need." She even says that she will probably which means --->probaly means that there is a high possibility or probability but it is not certain. Like how we say: I will probably see you tomorrow but this is not certain. I don't think that she hasn't got the guts or something. She says it clearly. At the time being I cannot devote myself to anyone by myself. So for the time being she is asking you to break up. She might come, she might not. Also, when it comes to depression as it is mentioned in other threads, even an answer is too much for them. I know very well how you feel, but in my opinion your girlfriend told you to break up. She doesn't feel the need to answer you anything else since she took the time to make things clear for you. Then you have 2 options: forget her and move on or wait until you can. But if you decide to wait you know that you leave yourself to hopes and posibilities. My ex also told me that he needs to fix all the other things that he has in his life and then he will be ready to see our relationship again. My friends interpreted this as a temporary break up. But not, it was a permanent break up. She also might thinking that at the moment she doesn't want to be with you but when time passes she might want. Well if the times that will pass it will be so long, you won't be there anyway. Or she might not have the courage to fly back to you or she might just give up and find someone else. As I mentioned, this is my interpretation of the translation and I might be wrong. Also I totally understand you, my ex filled me with so many gifts, surprises, messages of how much he love me and what I meant for him, how much I helped him when his mother was sick and he was down and of course he even came to visit me. But depression won. All I got now is the presents and the lies and promises. I am also the oppossite from you, a total patient person. He even thanked me for my behavior towards him. So, that is why I believe that the problem doesn't lie on the fact that you weren't understanding but that she just doesn't want a relationship. My ex told me: thank you for caring about me but I have my friends. So they prefer their friends over us. But this is not our problem. Even if you were as patient as me, the outcome would have been the same. So don't take into account the scenario that you are not someone with understanding. I doubt at that point she is thinking about your relationship. I believe that she feels relieved that she broke up with you for the time being and made things clear and now she is only thinking about herself. As mentioned again, grieving is a selfish process. Oh and by the way, almost everything is a burden for them and everything irritates them. I know that you cannot understand it and I cannot understand it either very well but they ar at a state that they don't know and don't care about anything. My ex explained to me that he has an apathy towards everything and he doesn't want to do anything. Also in the begining it was like your girlfriend. He was saying that he cannot be like that forever. At some point he will be fine. Until July (5 months after the death) he was worse than ever. Also they are unsure about anything. 3 days after the break up or so I asked him if the reason was only this or if there were other reasons as well and he told me that he doesn't know. Then I asked him, is there any possibility of us being together again at some point in the future?and then he again answered that he doesn't know anything, he cannot think clearly and how awful he feels and that he thinks of taking antidepressants and stuff. I asked him: do you think that me be patient and not talk to you and giving you space was the problem? And he told me he didn't know. And so I told him: OK I will explain you for once and for ever why I choose not to bother you all this time and think it when you are in a clear state of mind. (What I told him that I had left him alone and not contacting him in order to give him space and not add pressure to his problems but puting aside what I felt and that my feelings for him hadn't change). He thanked me, he told me that he will think of them when he is in a better state and sorry for being selfish. I only heard from him only once again and again with my initiation. So it seems either you choose to be patient or unpatient the outcome is the same. And you know he seems pretty fine to me at facebook and all friends say he is doing fine. And even if he just pretends to be fine, at least he is better than before, he has a clearer mind, but not only didn't he think about me, he even stop answering to my one in 2 months texts. And I made the patience noone would do. So even your scenario of waiting and undestanding wouldn't have worked because they just don't want any relationship at all. And I am telling you to give up hope because a lot of people were telling me the same back then but I didn't want to believe them. Now I am 3.5 month after the break up and 7 months after the death and I am almost in point 0. I don't want anyone else to feel how I feel and I don't have any self destruction tendencies at all. It seems that although I knew that there wasn't any hope at all, my unconsious decided to stay put on this one in the billion hope. Or even thought that if I wait he will understand that I am the right girl for you cause noone else would have wait. Or even if we just remain friends in the future he will like me again. Well you cannot stay friends with a guy that he doesn't speak you anyway. I have seen people here telling: why you don't trust people anymore? He didn't cheat you. It would have been 1000 times easier if this was the case believe me. And yes there were succesfull stories, but what?1 in 1000? People like to hold on this 1 in 1000 hope but we need to face reality. Some they say that if the outcome was positive they wouldn't return to the forum to write the outcome. I doubt so. I beleive that they stop writing because they moved on with their lives or found someone other. If the case was successful I am pretty positive that they will had returned as I will have done. Because you want to show to others that it isn't everything black and in the end you went against the odds.