Pollara

Oh yes sorry I misunderstood. Yes she might have complicated grief but there is no a specific timeline. OK in most of the cases a 6 month period is OK but there are people who need years and some never get over it. From what you say she seems more of a girl who needs attention. If you want to die you usually don't say it, you just do it. It is not coincidental that people who know other who commit suicide sometimes they say that this was out of his/her character and they didn't see that coming. Of course when you are grieving it is natural to have suicidal thought since you want to be with the deceased. But when you are depressed you usually don't have the energy to deal with a relationship, not to mention a new one who needs more emotional effort to put on. So I really cannot attribute this just to grief. Because if you cannot have energy for someone who you are in the relationship for years, how can you have for someone completely new? OK he knew this guy a lot of years, but it is different from being friends to have a relationship with someone. I cannot see how on the one hand wants to die but on the other wants to start a new relationship. In my opinion it seems to me that she wanted to do this from some time now. He had mixed feelings and she knew that this is not rational, but when the triggered was pulled (grief) she just did what she wanted and not what her logic told her to follow. Also don't forget that she started the relationship one day after. Relationships don't happen from one day to another, so I believe she already had made a discussion with him and then just broke it off with you. Of course you were there for helping her, but you know people tend to reject their "healers" when they don't need them anymore. It is like you are going to doctor. When you don't need his services you don't go there anymore. Maybe in her back of her mind he always had him.

But isn't the fact that she wants to keep everything the same in the house a sign of grieving? I mean if you don't grief anymore you have accept the fact and you can do changes. ( It's the same with my ex. He is the one who is living in his mother's house and as my friends have told me it is exactly the same as she left it. But of course he doesn't work like your ex to keep it since it is his house. He also was the one that needed to do all the paperwork etc so he felt pressured. But the only time that he made some changes to the house was in the 3 first weeks that he hadn't realized the loss yet. After that the house stayed in the same condition pretty much. But unlike your ex my ex has been stuck to depression for 5 months now and he is getting worse over time). I really don't know in which stage your ex is and when she will end up with her grieving or if she has a normal or delayed grieving. And also it depends on the person. There are a lot of people who need more than one year. But to me your ex girlfriend doesn't seem to suffer from depression. I don't know in which stage she is and if she is in any stage at all, but since he found this guy my opinion is that you should move on. Even if she did this irrational decision, I don't see any reason why to justify her? All these combined with the fact that she doesn't want to have contact with you at that time are indicators to what person she is. I mean ok I understand that they are grieving etc, but isn't this part of their character? their choices I mean. At the most difficult time of her life she chose to be with another guy? Why to forgive that? I don't know maybe I am too selfish. I can forgive a lot of thing. Even if my boyfriend has an one night stand up or something cause I can understand the difference between sex and love. But if someone chooses not to be with me even if he wasn't at his right mind, how can I forgive something like that? For me some things if there are to happen they will. I believe that if my ex was really interested for me, when he done with his grieving he will return otherwise he never wanted me that much to begin with so we would have broken up anyway. So the same might appeal to your ex. Even if it wasn't for the grieving, at some point maybe she would have realized her suppressed feelings for him and had broken up with you. I believe that if a love is that great, no matter the circumstances they will be together. And not this is not because I am romantic etc, but it is how people's feelings are affected. Will you have trust to this girl even if she will return to you that she won't do it again?

yeah I have one started back in April so it has many answers on it. So it might be boring for you to read it all. It is here (http://hovforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/7922-should-i-stay-or-should-i-go/ ). But in the end I have read all other's people posts myself. Well of course they have the problems since they are the ones grieving and lost their minds. But to me this is what holds me back. If my ex had chosen another girl or was a totally abusive guy or something else I would already considered it a past. It is the fact that he didn't do anything to me and that it was the wrong timing that makes things worse.

yeah it is true. But it is still too early. And the more you try to suppress something, the more you end up doing it. In psychology there is something that it is called the white bear effect which says that if you try not to thing of a white bear, one will pop up in your mind every 2 minutes, meaning that the more we try not to think over something the more we think of it. I did the same quite a lot of times. Tried not to see when my ex is poping up in the chat etc and even thought of blocking him. But there is no reason for me to do so and well it is my problem that I cannot forget him so I let it be and if he wants he can speak to me. I found it kind of immature to block him since we didn't got into a fight or something. Well maybe deep inside me I believe that if I block him he won't reach at me or by being there if he has this irrational thought of talking to me he will do it. Of course he won't. Well at least I said to myself that I will enter the chat only while I am working. In the end you cannot do a lot of things rather than trying to do other things so as not to thing about the "white bear". yes it is really strange. It is like when he was with the other sister he still had feelings for her. But on the other hand, the sister was the one who broke it off, meaning that they could still have been together. So it seems really strange. Oh and by the way sorry that I forgot, congratulations on your first flight! That is great news to share

All I know is that depression doesn't make any specific choices. It depends on the person and his/her character. Some times even really strong person collapses. I have a friend who is psychologist as I mention in a lot of my post and she has encountered a lot of cases. She told me that each case is different and you never know until the first month how is the other going to react. Sometimes of course not even the month is indicative, but she sets the usual limit at the month because it is about the time when the realization of the loss hits you. My ex didn't have any abandonment issues, but his parents had divorced so he stayed with his mother and his sister since his 10. Although he has very good relationship with his father and he was very supportive, in our country this is not the case. I mean divorcing is not very usual as it is let's say in other countries. So you might say that this is an abandonment issue. But on the other hand, his sister is doing fine because she had a lot of hobbies and activities and decided to stress her energy to them. So no don't search for a specific indicator. Like abandonment issues or abuse. I think it depends on the person and sometimes even timing plays an important role. I mean if the death had happened at some point earlier or later. Sometimes also it depends on the death itself. Whether you expect it or not. Of course my ex was waiting for it for 15 years but in the end depression took him over. My friend has told me that she also has seen cases where a person that it is really strong as a character collapses because it is the trigger of all it has been going through. Recently she told me that she had a patient that she had been going through a lot of hardships in all her life like losing her second child at birth, losing her husband, losing money etc but she always was very strong. Until she lost a job and she got depression. But what she came up with (my friend) was that this was just the trigger. That she didn't react or she tried to suppress her emotions for all the other stuffs and when she lost her job it was for her the final trigger, like "why everything goes wrong to me"? OK this is not a case of depression itself, but it might also apply to grief to some cases.

Well it is really strange how she is dating her sister's ex. Is her sister ok with it? Well I don't know how things are going and it is probably a matter of culture that is why I didn't comment at it or in the beginning I thought that the relationship with the sister was very old and it was for a few months or something. But in my country it is something that you don't do. I mean it may end up to sisters don't speak anymore or something. Hmm as for your ex, it seems that she always had him on the back of her mind or something but she had a limitation of doing something with him (probably because she was her sister ex) and with the death the trigger was pulled. She might thought that life is too short to not to do what you want so she run to him. About this guy I really don't know what to say. How can he like both of the sisters?

Hi Tom! I am glad that you are doing fine. It kind of makes me sad that in the end after so much patience that you had things didn't work out between you two guys but at least you are ok now. And also you are still too young and you have all your life ahead. *So your ex is pregnant. In the end she decided to give her energy to someone else. I see)

Hi! I am sorry that another person was added to this relationship due to grieving situation. It seems to me that your ex girlfriend thinks that she is not the right person for you at this time, because except from her grief she also has her personal problems related to her health. What was sounded strange to me was how with the therapy she ended up to break it off with you. I thought that therapists at times like these encourage people to find another things to focus in order to feel better and spend their emotional energy there (ie relationship) and not to be detached from the rest of the world. I don't know maybe it is different than what I thought. In any case I am glad that you are doing better day by day. I truly understand how hard this is. What I learn from this story is that grief affects not only the people that are related directly to the deceased but other people as well. Unfortunately you cannot do anything rather than moving on and if there is a change on her mind and you are still around you can see that again.

Well yes. For me there wouldn't have been any hope in any case if she had found another guy. Because the case is usually that the grievers don't have the emotional energy to devote on a relationship. But since she found the energy to devote on another guy and not you I don't see how this is a matter or grief. Or did you probably believe that due to her grief she rushed and do something really irrational? Well who knows, it might be the case, but in my opinion don't put your hopes in this. Just try to move on and I hope the best for you.

I really don't know. I think that grief is striking everyone in different way. They might not do it out of discreet. They might think that you want to be alone at a times like this. From what I 've seen women want around people while men turned to themselves. When the mother of my ex (he was my boyfriend at that time) died he distanced himself until he broke it off. No matter how many times I tried to reach at him, he answered in a way like he didn't want me there. Last time I sent him a text and didn't even reply. So what I 've learnt is that grief is different from anyone. You say that people don't contact you but what if they do and they cannot reach you (emotionally not physically)?

I think that he is afraid because he knows that what he did was wrong. Well it is so strange to me that I don't know about grief, how at a time the only thing you care is your deceased one and take the chances to lose your significant other and then you realize that what you did was wrong. Well I am usually a spontaneous person so maybe I will be more straightforward since he seems to have problems in communication. But what do you want? Do you want to see him in person and try to talk about it? then I would have invited him. Like, since we are talking almost every day on the phone why don't you come here to visit me?or something among those lines

hi! I am sorry for all you are going through but I agree with KayC. Of course I am not pretending that I am different than you and that I don't want my ex, but as I have already mention, I still have feelings for him because I only have good memories of him. If I learn that he found another girl then not only my attention, but even my anger would be unworthy for him. The fact that he started dating with her sister's ex to me it is unforgivable and although it hurts, it might be a bless in disguise. Imagine to spend the rest of your life with her and then one day dumped you for another person. As for her grieving process, only the person herself knows. For instance I know a lot of persons that had their grieving process done after 3 or 6 months. But it is not always the same for everyone. But my opinion is that you shouldn't attribute everything to grief. Meaning that you believe that she turned to him due to grieving etc. She might already have done with grieving and she might be in love with him. Sorry that I sound like that, but I am just telling my opinion from what I am reading

Well no, this is not the case when it comes to grief. And this is not a conclusion that I came to myself. My friend who is psychologist and had seen a lot of grieving people she told me that 1 out of 5 turns to have what it is called complicated grieving and that they get depressed for a longer period. This doesn't depend on previous trauma or whether a person is strong or not (as a character). Because she even had cases where people really strong as characters who had endured a lot, they got devastated after the loss. Of course every case is different. For instance she told me that there was a woman really admirable and strong that she had endured a lot (like her one illness before, previous loses etc) and when she lost her father she got depressed, because it was like she couldn't hold everything anymore. Your girlfriend's case looks different. As for my ex, I am 90% sure (you can never be 100% sure) that he wasn't abused. I think that the trigger is just the loss. He grew up only with his mother and his sister. So to lose your half family for him is the worst that could have happened. As for why he is seeking medical attention it is because he searches for an easy solution. Nothing less, nothing more. Because he has studied IT, in his mind everything is numbers. He doesn't accept any other way of correct if it isn't scientifically proven. And in his mind science is only something that it is related to numbers or chemistry if you get what I mean,He doesn't want to go to a psychologist because he believes that talking to them is like talking to his friends (yes in his mind they are equal). So when he got the panic attack he was really scared and he decided to go straight on medication. he would only seek the help of a psychologist only if the psychiatrist told him so. Well he didn't reply to my text so I don't know what happened. KayC, I believe that this is Jim's way of telling you that he wants to be together with you. Of course due to his Asperger syndrome he cannot tell it to you in a direct way so he chooses an indirect. Why don't you ask him if he wants to be together with you or if he could have turned back the time if he would have done something different? Of course I understand that you want more than that, but since it is so difficult for him to tell you, why don't you "help" him a little? If he admits that he wants to be together again with you then you can ask him more about then. And you can ask him on the occasion of the song

Thanks Martyr for the article. Well in the past I told him to read some articles that I have found and he didn't want. I know that I cannot force him but I just want his own good. As KayC told, to see a psychiatrist 5 months after the grief without seeing any counselor or at least simultaneously for me cannot solve anything. Until recently he didn't even want to say that he is grieving and he was trying to find excuses. Not to mention that I became really angry because he decided to start taking the pills without even going to this psychiatrist, because a friend of him proposed him. Is he stupid? No I know that he is just desperate and needs a fast solution or at least he thinks that pills is an easy solution. But the problem is grieving and nothing else at that time. The pills that he started taking himself is serafem (prozac). I don't know if they are under the same name in U.S. But what is his friend?stupid? Giving to a person that he is grieving the pills that you are taking yourself? I still cannot believe how stupid people are and the fact that at this point he thinks them more friends than me. Edit: Marty I just read the article myself. See the problem in him that it is different from the person that wrote the article is that my ex actually thinks that this is not normal. Otherwise he wouldn't have chosen to go to the psychiatrist. He sees his sister that she is doing fine, he sees other people that have told him that after 3 months of the death they were fine so he thinks that this is not a normal procedure. No matter how much I had told him that this is natural to happen. So he just wants an easy solution. Personally I am not trying to convince him or change his mind and if it is that the antidepressants without any other help from counselors can work I don't mind as long as he will be ok. What I am afraid of is that the antidepressants without the help of the counselor won't solve the problem. if the problem can be solve with the psychiatrist I am ok with that. The other problem is in my country we don't have this grief counselors. Psychologists are doing this job as part of their work. We don't have specific related to grief counselors or psychologists.

Hello to old and new members. I will answer to the new posts after I go through them carefully. One minor update from my ex. I decided to check up on him via chat to see how he is doing. He told me that he was going to meet a psychiatrist and that he started taking antidepresssants by himself! I was really mad that he started pills without asking anyone and I asked him why chose a psychiatrist. His problem is grieving and he is not insane. He should have seen a counselor first. Then he told me that he doesn't believe in counselors and psychologists helps and it was the first time that he told me what he is going through all this time. He told me that he didn't expect it to feel that awful and that he is in total mess and that he hopes with the antidepressants to get better and that he will listen to psychiatrist. What do you think? I am pretty positive that his psychiatrist will definitely give him pills (they are famous for giving pills like candies), but I don't know whether this is really going to solve his problem. His problem is that he has depression related to grief and he needs to focus on it. In my humble opinion avoiding this cannot lead to anywhere. I don't know but I have heard that people who take antidepressants are feeling like zombies and they don't have emotions at all. I don't know if it is true because i don't take. But if he keeps on like that I think that he will lose half of his life being a zombie and not only with me, but he won't be with any girl in the near future. I sent him a text today what happened with the psychiatrist but he didn't reply. Well I guess after all, he doesn't want to have much contact in me, but I really stopped caring whether I am pressuring to him or not. He cannot broke up with me anymore but I don't think he wants me out of his life (I mean he is friends with all of his exes except the previous one). So I just did what I would have done if a friend of mine had been through the same situation. Well of course he knows where to find me and stuff but I just wanted to show that I am really interested about his well being

Haha actually this is my motto! That we should do whatever make us happy. Although I am a person that usually thinks everything, in the latest year I "discovered" that until now I did everything with logic and then I ended up to do things that they were logical and make me unhappy. For example, I wanted to go to my country for holidays even if this was a breaking up. But I didn't because I followed my logic. And now I keep wondering and say why didn't I do what I wanted to? In the past also in my career, I chose what was more logical and in the end I was just unhappy in my environment. After all this looking to my past I ended up that I should whatever makes me happy even if it is not what is defined as "right". I don't want to have regrets. Being friendzoned is more to that I am not ready yet to see him in a totally friendly way as my previous ex. If I still have some kind of feelings, not like the same as before, but I know that I won't like to learn that for example she found another girlfriend. It's not so much about the hopes, but if it is to be there and end up just as a friend I prefer not to be at all. OK I know it is selfish but...

yes Plum! The same thing is with my ex. He told me that he was very stressed because of all the things he had to do and that he didn't afford any other burdens, but when I asked him he didn't say anything that it is so hard to do. So I guess everything for them are regarded as pressure. Even the slightest thing. In some of our friends he told that he is feeling tired and that he prefers staying home. my psychologist friend told me that when men have depression are feeling very stressed while it is more of an emotional breakdown for women. That men don't want to seek help while women do so, but on the other hand that women are more prone to commit suicide when they suffer from depression than men.! Well the thing with me is that I don't want him to feel me as an extra burden that I am here and waiting something for him (it might be possible you never know) and the other thing is that I don't want to be friendzoned at the end of the day.

I see. It is like living in another city. yeah, well in my country things were easier, we were only 5-6 miles away. Well I believe it is the easy solution to say about distance. Noone will ask more and they will "understand" it. Of course it is funny supposedly that they know that I am returning in a few months but whatever. It seems that some of them have already bought this excuse. At least it isn' t insulting as being immature. Whatever, I just want to ensure that he want commit suicide. As for Jim, judging by what how you have described him I don't see him find another partner. I believe that if you have shown him an obvious green light or telling him to be together he would have said yes but he doesn't have the guts to come and tell you that he wants to be together

You know no contact in the end is a win or win situation. Although it is difficult at that time to think that you will be happy with someone else or by yourself it happens. It is win because: a. you will forget him and you will feel better and you will be happy maybe with someone else (Win) b. he might realize that you are the one that he wants to be together with (Win) c, you might be happy with someone else when he will return (Win)

Well probably they believe that since he tells to the majority of our common friends that we break up due to distance. But it is the same majority that he is pretending that he is totally fine so of course distance is an easy excuse. I don't believe that distance is the main problem because he didn't have it in the first place and he was the one who wanted to start a long distance relationship while I had my doubts and of course he was the one that he told me: "I don't know if I want you to come back". So of course it cannot be distance. Now I don't know if he needs to see me again, but supposed that I return to my country but for some reason we haven't meet with him or with our common friends. How should he know that I am there or not if he doesn't ask me? Oh KayC I hadn't understand that you were in the same place. I thought that you were in another state. Because in Europe that I am living each country is like a state.

No what I meant by my post is that there hasn't always to be a reason. I have seen a lot of my friends to leave boys that they are "a heart of gold". they don't have anything against them but it is just they are not in love with them anymore. So in this case I name this boredom. Your girlfriend seems a really confused case, but have you think that the death sometimes might be the trigger in order to change? I 've read about cases of people that they were on marriage but they weren't that satisfied but only after a significant death they thought of cancel the marriage. Why? because probably they realized that life it is too short to spend it in things that you don't feel satisfied. Of course your girl has other issues as well, but what if she heals herself and then tells you that now she can see clearly that you don't meant to be together. Wouldn't be that worse for you?

Well at least Plum he seems that he doesn't want to end everything between you two but he cannot do anything about it. Well I think that it is more difficult to convince a guy to seek the help of an expert rather than a woman. When I told my ex that he should see a therapist he told me: no I have friends. He believes that if he says how he feels to his friends (apparently it seems that I wasn't a friend but anyway), it is the same as going to a counselor. I wonder, does his sister who is seeing a specialist tell him anything or he hides these facts even from her? But it surprises me that as the months pass they are getting more and more worse. I wonder, what is a reasonable amount of waiting in order to speak to him and see how he is doing?

Hi Helena! I am glad that you are doing more and more better. I am doing it better as the ex subject is concerned but I heard something about him of getting panic attacks and I am worried. But not in the same way I was when I didn't know if we were still together etc. I am worried for his mental health as a person. And it is true, if things are so worse as at least they think in their minds it is, going on a new relationship is the last thing that they want. But a lot of times I thought what if a new girl shows up when he is on the way out of his depression. Well then I said to myself that he can go to hell. He knows that I am there, that I wanted to supported him and that in a way I am still waiting so if he chooses another girl then he definitely doesn't deserve me. But I know that I did what I could. I was there, I tried to give my help, I didn't ask for anything and in the end, when he got out of his depression if he cannot see that most of the girls would have already abandoned him, then he deserves a worse girl. In any case you are right. I believe the hardest part is to decide that he is not the only man on the planet and that whether you leave him or not, if it is meant to be together you will be. And no, I don't mean that to a fateful way or whatever but more like, if they really want us and care about us, they know where to find us, A lot of friends keep telling me that if I had returned he wouldn't have break up with me, which I doubt or that if I don't return in my country at autumn he will forget me and we won't be together ever again. But I wonder why? He has the problem. Why should I be physically there? Does he need to see me in order to remember me? He has depression not amnesia

Well there is not essential always to be a reason. She might just got bored. My previous ex when he broke up with me he told me that I was the perfect girl and that he won't find anyone close to me, that this is for us now. He just didn't want to be in a relationship. And the thing is that after one and a half year that we are apart and we are talking as friends he still believes the same.

Are you sure that she really don't remember things? Memories loses isn't something so usual and I doubt that a therapist would have heard something like that and just give her to read a book and not prompt her to a psychiatrist. Are you sure that she is not making things up because it is convenient to her? She seems like a girl that needs attention so it wouldn't sound strange to me if she was making things up in order to have your attention. I believe that at this point you don't gain anything. Instead, you have stuck up to the solution of not letting her go and now you hurt yourself emotionally. Because even if this girl turn mentally stable, I believe that she uses you as a healer and as a psychologist told me recently, healers are disposed when their services are not needed. So that means when she will be fine she won't need your services anymore and dispose you. I believe at this point that you should do what is better for yourself. She wants to have everything, you around as a friend, a new girlfriend etc. Life cannot give you everything you want