Maylissa

Hi Dayna, I'm so very sorry you lost your dad, both in this fashion and at such an early age ( for both of you ). While the details differ, I share the experience of growing up with one, officially diagnosed alcoholic, and one not diagnosed alcoholic ( or "problem drinker" ) in my family. My Mother, who was the one who died was diagnosed years ago, while my father was the one not diagnosed, but was the worst problem person in our family. He's still alive ( barely ) but in a home now, with late-stage dementia. Many of your feelings are common to me, too, except they apply to my Mom, not my father. I'm familiar with the 'looks' one gets when freely stating that someone was alcoholic, and have even had several conversations with 2 of my Mom's sisters about her affliction ( and my father's ). Most people don't seem to want to understand what it's all about, but prefer to remain simply judgemental about someone whose addiction happens to be alcohol...even if they, on the other hand, smoke or use prescription drugs, or what-have-you as their own form of escape/addiction. While my Mom didn't actually die directly from her cirrhosis, it certainly helped her get, and stay, ill, until she finally died from a stroke ( after a few smaller ones first ). It doesn't matter, really. The fact that they're gone and we're hurting is what really matters in the long run. However, having this kind of background certainly makes our grieving more complicated, as issues from the past arise, resulting in a return of the so-called "crazy-making" emotional reactions we suffered as children, all while we're trying to mourn their loss at the same time. It doesn't even seem to matter ( at least not with me ) whether one understands those past dynamics or not ~ it just makes grieving longer and more difficult to deal with than with others who didn't have such issues in the first place. My Mom, too, could be awful, to me and others, and yet she was also quite a wonderful person in many ways. I, and many others who really knew her, always saw her as having a good heart and core, that simply got wrecked from both the drinking, and in her/my case, mostly my father's abuse. I've looked at her life thousands of times, and thought that, had I been her, I would have turned out even worse, so even if alcoholism isn't a disease, I can't in any way blame her for turning to it. However, it did run in her family as well, so it's not surprising to me that it affected her as it did. I was also my Mom's only daughter, and she fought to NOT have me aborted, as my father had wanted, so we shared even more bonds than most mothers and daughters have, on several levels.....yes, depsite any bad times that there were, and there were many. But in the last 14 years, we re-established a better relationship with each other ( more workable, for me ) and so now I'm left with an extreme pining for not only the improved relationship, but especially the regrets that it couldn't have been this way, or better, for a much longer time during our lives together. Most times now it darn-near kills me to have to give up that lifelong dream, the one that never really coalesced for us. She's just gone, and there are no more chances, no more attempts I can make, to be even closer to her. The dream is over, and I don't want it to be. I AM nobody's little girl anymore ( despite the fact that I'm nowhere near a little girl anyway! - I'm 48 already - gak!...but don't feel like I am ), as my father wouldn't allow me to have my Mother's things, then my oldest brother died suddenly, 2 months after our Mom, and my middle brother ( who is like our father ) stole everything else that remained of our parents' 'estate', despite the fact that our father isn't dead yet. The family home was also suddenly sold, so I lost that, too. So I became, in one, swift move, no one's daughter and no one's sister, either, so feel I've lost my entire past life as well. I was in essence, ignored out of existence by my own family. Extended relatives have been almost as bad, with no one caring to understand my position or my pain, and pretty much all contact has been severed. I lost everyone. I have a husband and our remaining furbaby ( cat ) and that's IT. Understand, too, that both my Mother's and my father's families were HUGE, yet I only talk to one, lone aunt now, and she's from my father's side, so I never grew up with her around. All more immediate connections to my Mom, who was my only real parent, emotionally, have been taken away from me. The effects of the alcoholism in the family obviously extends beyond my own, immediate family, further complicating my mourning. And my Mom's siblings are all getting quite elderly as well, so in a few short years, they won't even be here, either, whether we're speaking or not. I also know what you mean about not having a parent around to be proud of you anymore. That was me and my Mom, too. It took me a few months, but I finally realized just how often in a day, when she was still alive, I'd be doing even the simplest, little thing, and would be thinking about how the task was connected to me and my Mom, and how she'd like this or that, or be proud of how I did something, if she knew. These thoughts were so subtle that I'd never even really noticed them much...until she wasn't there. It wasn't healthy, but I now realize how many things I did, how many values I held, that were more about my Mom than about me ( even thought I've integrated them for myself ), and that's what makes it so hard to go on now. I've lost that impetus inside - strange, though, because she never even knew about most of these things I was doing,as we lived in different places. Yet it's hard to feel any drive to do them now. And yes, I understand, too, the many regrets and feeling that things are so unfair. Heck, never mind the BIG stuff, even buying a sweater or something that I know my Mom would have liked, the stupidist, little things that can't be shared at all now, seems to reek of unfairness....even THOUGH my Mom was 84, not in her 50's. If they're too young, it's not fair that you didn't get to witness each other's lives. If they were older, there are just that many more years of memories to be missing. It's not fun, no matter how old or how young anyone was. Death isn't fair and it never will be, from the perspective of losing someone you love. If it helps you, I never DID give my Mom any grandchildren, something she wanted more than almost anything else in life....a granddaughter from her only daughter. But it wasn't what I wanted for myself. Do I have regrets about that? Sure! But I'm also glad I followed my own heart in other respects around that. Even I can't say which choice was better, for me, in the long run, I also know I shouldn't beat myself up for not living my life according to someone else's hopes and dreams and on their timetable. Every milestone, every change, whether big or small, will hurt some now and that's just the way it is when we lose someone we love...the details don't matter as much as the over-riding pain of not being able to share in that physical life with someone anymore. Even now, 2 years later, whenever I see a landscape that I would have wanted to show my Mom, or just tell her about, my heart just aches with longing. Now I have to try and find my way back to being able to enjoy these kinds of things strictly for myself. I have no answer as to how to do this yet, though. I'm still struggling daily with this, with so many things. As children of alcoholics, we take on many responsibilities that we never should have, like living too much FOR someone else and THEIR happiness. This is just one of the complications added to our grief. Even if we learned how to go beyond those unhealthy patterns before we lost our parent, sometimes they surface again after our loss. Even in those without such backgrounds, regrets abound. So what I'm really getting to is: feel as much compassion for yourself as you possibly can, for as long as your grief lasts, which may be a very long time. You owe this to yourself now. As for reasons WHY?....too many times, it takes so long to be able to see the big picture, to give it enough time to unfold so that one can see some reasoning behind an event that occurred much earlier. I'm sure most of us are still waiting for that day, although I've heard of some who see it pretty soon after. I've had it happen in my own life, two times with big events...two of which were really serendipitous in nature and which I believe helped save my sanity in one case, with the other providing me with so much good and love that I can't even count it all, as it hasn't even ended yet. Usually, I think it mostly has to do with our own personal growth, which doesn't often happen overnight, unfortunately. And some people also believe, as I tend to, that when someone has accomplished what they set out to learn on this physical plane, they leave, or CAN leave if they choose, all of this done w/o us remembering our original, spiritual goals, that is. I don't KNOW if this is true or not, but it makes some logical sense to me, so for now, that's what I choose to believe. It makes it easier for me to accept a loved one's passage into a different form of life....as much as that can be 'accepted.' Whatever issues you face, I'm willing to discuss them, as despite our age difference, when you lose a parent, you're suddenly 3 years old again inside and need all the help you can get. It often helps me to help others, especially when I'm familiar with similar aspects, so feel free to take advantage. Wherever and with whomever you can find help, more power to you. Being able to talk about anything and everything that comes up is a real boon while mourning, and if I can ever help, it gives me a part of that absolutely-crucial meaning and purpose in my life now...to help fill up that same hole.

Dear PattiR, First, let me express my sincere condolences on the passing of your fiance', and right before Christmas, no less!...and belated condolences for your best friend's and father's deaths, as well. All of this must be truly awful for you! I can certainly see why you'd give up entirely on this season, and would likely do the same myself, given the same circumstances. I can just imagine the horrible shock you must be in, and your situation is so bitterly ironic, I can't even begin to tell you how I empathize with your plight. As for his family....well, I just don't 'get' people who do things like this. Even if they're not willing or able to sit and hold your hand for long periods of time, to wholly abandon you, despite their own grief, I find as reprehensible as I do the actions of my own family. For the most part, I've grown too weary of trying to consider other people's reactions and feelings and lending them any benefit of the doubt, if they act in insensitive ways. Very unfortunately, this leaves too many of us alone, as even with some understanding, that still doesn't change the way others choose to act. I'm tired of feeling sorry for and extending empathy to those who can't bring themselves to rise above their own habitual reactions ( or whatever their particular personality problems are )in order to do at least something for someone else who's in pain. As a note, legally, I believe you are entitled to get back your engagement ring, as it is usually considered a gift to the woman and is therefore hers from then on....so I hope you don't have to fight to get it returned to you. I also know what you mean about friends becoming totally unavailable over holidays, as that's what happens to us every, single year, for all of 14 years. Although me and my husband have each other ( at least for now; there's no guarantee this will last, judging from all grievers of partners! ), we're still pretty lonely every Christmas. We saw only one couple this year, after official holiday time, which was nice, but still pretty pathetic in the grand scheme of things, after 14 years of trying to make friends to include and be included with their own circles. Too many of us have to make do with mere crumbs of support and it makes me terribly angry at people for being so selfish and self-centered. So while I'm 'glad' I have some company in these feelings, I feel as bad for you ( actually, worse ) as I do for myself. I never heard a word from certain extended family, either, this year, and am still seething about it. Soon, I think I'll be stopping censoring my real feelings with these relatives. I figure, if they can make excuses for the horrible things my brother has done to me and everyone else these last 2 years, then they can excuse ( or not, who cares anymore? ) MY behaviour when I tell them what I really think!

Today marks 2 years since my Mum passed away, and I'm so full of conflicting feelings. I first awoke to something lovely that my husband had done for me. On the kitchen counter he had left a sympathy card about losing a mother, along with an angel 'hug' pin from a mother to a daughter, with a beautiful verse on the pin's card, and 2 glass snowmen ornaments, one with my name and one with my Mother's. I was blown away by his sweet consideration of my feelings today. His loving gesture will help me get through the day, especially since we're having a couple of friends over for the afternoon, just because we hadn't gotten to see them yet over holidays, and today worked for them...so I won't be able to 'indulge' in a lot of tears that are waiting inside, just yet. On the flip-side, I'd just started reading a new book, written (mainly) by a man who is supposedly on earth as a human form of our Creator, come to teach us how things really are...the Truth. My husband gave me this book for Christmas, as a gift 'from my Mum', as I'd been interested in reading it. It's called "Easy Death", which sounds promising, but from what I've read so far, apparently it doesn't offer any words of comfort, as things are supposedly not at ALL how we imagine them to be, and I got the distinct impression, from what little I've read so far in skipping around the chapters, that we may NOT ever see our loved ones again......because there's really only One of us here anyway. This echos other things I've read in the last decade, things that really only leave me more depressed, lonely and actually frightened.....and yet I'm the type who 'has to KNOW!', so can't turn away any knowledge I might gain, in anything. So I also woke up with these feelings of dread and fear, about life, about death, about what the point of it all is. While this may be beyond what many of you are dealing with yet, I had to give voice to what's really bothering me as of this morning, this lonely morning. I don't know how the day will go.....I can't even hope for the 'best', as I don't even know what that means anymore. I only know that, as a daughter, losing your mother truly 'does a number' on you, maybe forever more.

bmb60, I'm very sorry to hear about all your terrible losses, within such a short period. You've really been through the wringer! My husband and I had 5 losses over one year as well. It really complicates mourning. I lost my Mom and brother within 2 months in '04 and my husband lost an uncle, aunt and grandmother the same year. We also lost our furbaby coming up 6 years ago ~ our 'child', so one of our greatest losses. Yes, one hopes that in a few years the pain will lessen, and in some ways it can, but in other ways, it almost seems to grow worse. I put it down to missing them even more because it's been that much longer since we've had them here in the physical. This year was particularly hard for me, too, even though, as of today, it's been 2 years since my Mom passed. It doesn't seem that long at all! I also found I had the holiday 'guilts' and was trying desperately to find little moments of contentment, trying to stretch them out longer so as not to 'ruin' the season....I wasn't very successful. So you're not alone there. I couldn't even post here as often as I usually do, as it's been so draining on me. I still have 2 anniversaries, besides today, to get through in the next 2 months (our furbaby's and my brother's), so I don't imagine it's going to be an easy ride yet. How long? I honestly don't know. I'm just plugging away with it all, one day at a time.

sh3d3vilinme, Welcome, and my sympathies in the loss of your sister. I lost one of my 2 brothers coming up 2 yrs. ago this Feb. and while the familial situations are different, I, too, have had nothing but trouble with remaining family ever since. So, while there's always hope, I suppose, my opinion so far is that sometimes these broken ties never mend after a loss. It's all personal to each family, but I've had no success whatsoever in any of my endeavors to date. This can really make grieving complicated and harder to resolve. My Mother's ashes are either with my remaining brother, whom I have no contact with now, or she's been interred somewhere where I've not been told about, so I'm in the same boat there as you.

This last post was from me, Maylissa, but it logged me in as a Guest again.

Okay, so maybe I'll be sounding like a whiner, but I'm distressed nonetheless, like it or not. I got the personalized, engraved, glass ornaments I'd ordered for my Mom, brother and fur-boy, and they're quite beautiful...except for one flaw ~ the one for my Mom ( who's the one I'm missing the most this second Christmas )has engraving/etching that's wholly off-centre from the heart-shaped ornament. It's obviously off-kilter. Now I have to look into seeing if they can send another one, and make sure it's centered, like the other two are. Sure, it's minor, but it just seems like yet another roadblock in this long, lonely passage of mourning her. Oh why couldn't they have just gotten them all spot-on? It seems to mock me as a reminder of our less-than-perfect relationship and her nowhere-near-perfect passing, with all its horrid after-events. Gad.....why does it always have to be this way for me? Yes, I'm on the pity-pot, but in this moment, I don't really care, and just had to vent.

I just wanted to pass this on to anyone who might be interested in buying personalized memorial ornaments to hang at Christmas, or anytime, or to give as a gift for someone else who is in mourning. I have just ordered 3 of these for myself this year ( and hope they arrive before Christmas ) as I thought they looked very well done and believe they will give me some comfort each year when I hang them on the tree, or anywhere else I may choose. I plan on incorporating them into the candle-lighting ceremony Marty has posted about on this board ( assuming they arrive in time ). The place to order them is from this site: www.PersonalizationMall.com You may not get them in time now, but I decided to order them now anyway, in case they stop carrying these in the future. There is one dedicated memorial ornament ( that also comes with a suction cup to hang it on a window ) but I actually took 3 different types and had them each engraved "In Memory Of".....so that they're all differently personalized. I've also thought that it would be a lovely thing to give to someone from their departed loved one ( if the recipient could handle that ), either at Christmas or on a birthday or anniversary day. I wished that my husband had thought to do this for me, but since he didn't, I've done it for myself instead! Marty, If you take a look at them, I think you might like to add this as a link on your site...if it isn't there already ( for all I know ).

Thanks, Funnyface. I know I'll get through this Christmas and New Years (my Mom died Jan.2, so close ), just as I did last year, the first year....at least if nothing bad happens to my furbaby as well. I've since ordered 3 cut-glass memorial ornaments that are personalized and hope they arrive before the holidays. I'll be doing the candle ceremony that Marty T. mentioned, with the ornaments included if they arrive in time, so that might help some. One just can't help wondering, in these earlier stages, if that old warm feeling surrounding holidays will ever come back. It used to be MY favorite holiday, too, and like you, no more. You hang in there, too, as much as you can and we'll all get past this time of year together. Warmly, Maylissa

Dear Jen, I feel so badly for you...truly, and can also relate to alot of your story. We have a few similarities, despite our age difference. I'm already 48 yet now, 2 years after my own Mom passed away, I often feel more like I'm in my 20's again, missing my Mom from the time when I still lived in the same city ( I'm in Canada, too, BTW )and would go to work with her everyday ( worked at the family business for 14 yrs. ). When she first passed, I felt about 5 yrs. old, no older. So to say when a daughter loses her mother, it really throws us for a loop, is a huge understatement! My Mom, too, was still getting physically abused by my father, though she was bent over at the waist with osteoarthritis, a fractured spine, artificial hip that needed replacing, pins in one knee and numerous internal diseases, and was in her 80's. She never had left my father, though this was their history all throughout their 'marriage'. I applaud your mother for having the courage to leave your father. Be proud of her for that. I think our whole family would have been much better off had we not had our father around...but it was a different generation then and not as easily done. My father also threatened to kill her if she ever left and I believe he would have tried. I barely got any time to see my Mom when she was in a rehab. centre, and eventually waiting to be placed in a home. She'd never recovered enough to go back home ( she didn't understand this by then). My husband and I were unemployed for about a year before she fell ill and I couldn't fly back home more than twice in 6 months. My Mom eventually passed away all alone, with none of our other family members there with her, either. I last saw her 2 months prior, on her birthday and could only stay for 2 measly days. I spoke to her a few days before she unexpectedly passed - we also thought she'd been doing okay at that time, but a massive stroke took her, despite her having improved recently. When one is a caregiver, I think it becomes that much harder to accept their passing and so your sisters likely wouldn't understand that perspective - you can't really, unless you've been in that position. When we become more like the parent and our parent is more like our child, requiring such care, it's like losing not only one's parent, but our child as well. The extra pressure and grief that ensues is more difficult to cope with; more complicated. While I wasn't present to give physical care, I was the (only) one doing research and liasing with the medical staff on a regular basis about my Mom's care, so I 'get' these feelings. I was the only family member that they could sanely deal with, as the rest of my family was causing headaches for them, and for my Mom, in many respects. It's a really long story. As for you, you DID help your mom, even if you now feel your help wasn't as good as you would have wanted. We all seem to have those kinds of regrets and feelings of guilt afterwards. But we're none of us perfect, nor could we see into the future with any great accuracy, so must give up, work through these feelings of being less than we'd hoped. I've even heard of the same reactions from those who did darn near everything for their mothers, which tells you that there may be deeper issues &/or it's just a common reaction to our loss. For me, I know I made some choices that could have been different, but I had my reasons at the time, that seemed valid at the time. The fact that, had I known what was to come and how, I would have made different choices has to be enough for me to live with myself. My intentions were good, despite not being perfect. Had I known what was to come, my intentions would have been just as good but would have resulted in different scenarios. The important thing is knowing where your heart is and was and to not beat yourself up over different scenarios. Even if you did something terrible, from any way you look at it, all you could do now was learn what you need to learn from it and not do it again with anyone else. We often learn the most from such situations because they're more emotionally-charged than others...and as humans, we're often pretty stubborn cases! So the after-effects you're dealing with don't strike me as uncommon. I also had a really good memory before this, yet it's quite shot now, even 2 years later. While you promised your mom you'd finish school, there probably was no stipulation as to when you'd finish, so you could consider giving yourself a little break to recover a bit more before you go back to pursuing your education. A poor memory plays havoc with studying properly and I'm sure you don't want bad grades to add even more stress to your life. It's probably a fine line between pushing yourself to make a new life and taking care of your mental health, so I'm thinking some counseling with a grief counselor would likely be of benefit to you...even if you still have to take a break from education for awhile. At least if you have a more structured plan in place for your recovery, it gives you something more to shoot for, while still respecting your needs as a whole. A good couselor could help you with this...help you reinvest in yourself even through the pain. I, too, wonder how long it's going to take to recover enough to get my life more back on this newer track, so you're not alone in that fear. I do know that in some ways this 2nd year is worse and in other ways it's better - so I think it's sort of a wash. To say I'm disappointed that this year is still extremely difficult ( now that the shocks have worn off ) is another understatement, but all I can do is plod along and work on things as I'm able, hoping for a better future....though God knows when! We never truly 'get over' major losses, but we do learn to cope with them and return to the living, so to speak. Letting loose with your feelings as things go on, on these boards, can do so much good for that progression. I hope we'll see you hear some more, as we're not meant to do our grief-work alone.

Butterflygrl, I'm so sorry you've lost both of your parents, and at such a tender, young age. This must be devastating for you. It's hard enough at any age, but I can't even imagine losing a mother, especially, when so young. It's been hard enough for me, and I'm more than twice your age. I'm so sorry you're going to have to go through this so early in life, and especially with neither of your parents there to help you. However, despite the age difference, I can still relate to your extra feelings of loss over your childhood home as well. Though I'd not even been in my childhood home for many years, losing it abruptly after my Mother passed ( and only getting to be in it for about 5 hours before it was soon sold ), was still extremely difficult, and remains so to this day. I'd lived there 'til I was 20, so the amount of memories we'd both have attached to our homes is similar in length. It's like another piece of my history has been taken away and I still have a desire to turn back the hands of time so I can at least go back and just poke around in it, all by myself, one last time. Don't feel like you have to get rid of anything of your mom's that you might have, unless you really want to...and even then, I'd wait before making any rash decisions as you might change your mind later on. You might take a picture of your mom and frame it with those cards, or something like that. It doesn't matter what the objects are; if we hold them dear to our hearts then they become treasured mementoes of our loved one. It's been almost 2 years for me and I still haven't taken the clothes of hers that I don't want to a second-hand shop yet. There's no rush. We do things as we feel able, respecting our feelings as we go.

Whoa! Depression has suddenly hit me like a brick! Had decided to do cards this year, unlike the last, and it's tearing me apart, one card at a time. Writing to certain relatives was hard enough, trying to find something to say and skirting certain subjects because of my anger towards them for abandoning me in my sorrow, but then I was just made aware that Christmas Day is only 9 days away ( how did this escape me?!?! ) and we've only received 3 cards ourselves so far, becoming just another painful reminder of how few people give a crap about me/us. To top it all off, I just got the most pretentious card I've ever received, everything so colour-coordinated, hand-lettered in glitzey script, with a professional, artsy-fartsy family photo as the centerpiece. It took my breath away AND made my heart sink to the floor. I was having a hard enough time with this season as it was, without seeing how perfect and seemingly-carefree, abundant and happy other, more fortunate families are. I don't know these people all that well, so I can't say if they're really down-to-earth underneath all this surface glitter, but I do know it's the icing on the cake of my feeling like such a loser this year because I'm still grieving, still having to struggle through each day, still battling all sorts of demons inside from the family issues around my losses. While it was nice to be remembered, this kind of show-off 'greeting' was the LAST thing I needed! "Merry Christmas", indeed! Maybe for SOME people! And yesterday our furbaby started showing signs of getting ill again, not 2 days after stopping the drugs she'd had to go on....right before the holidays, this just had to happen again! This fear of illness, suffering and death is right in my face, every day....dogging me, dragging me into a pit of despair. I can't ignore it. Tonight we're invited for a seasonal pot-luck gathering, and because of her illness, I don't even know yet if I can join my husband, or if I have to stay home to keep a close watch on our gal, while he goes out. Neither of us is happy. How CAN we be? It's been one thing after another, for 2 long years. I just don't have any more energy to try to be strong. Every little setback feels like a 10-ton weight upon my shoulders. Is it just me, or is anyone else affected this acutely during the second year of mourning?

I've suffered with this same feeling of needing to know, for all of 2 years since my Mom died, without any family there, of a stroke. I still have a lot of anger about it because of 2 things: ~ the chief medical officer of the rehab centre where she died either lied, or couldn't have been bothered to look closely enough, about what was listed on her death certificate as to all medical conditions she had upon her death. I know this because of a personal contact I had who told me what was on there prior to me phoning this doctor. I also spoke with the doctor who was on call that night, and got the same song and dance from him. To this day, I don't know what they were trying to hide from me. It's not like there was anything new that I didn't already know about, I just wanted to hear it from them, but they both only mentioned the leading cause of death, even when I asked if there was anything else that was written anywhere on the certificate. ( I'm now also running into the same kind of nonsense at the home where my father is; has one serious disease that they never told me about in all of 2 years ) ~ the nurse who made THE call actually sounded rather cheery when she told me my Mother had just died. I was wailing before the receiver even hit the cradle and I hope she caught a snatch of that! I later asked the chief medical officer if he could have one of the staff call me as I wanted to know how her last couple of days had been, if she'd talked about me at all, whether anyone had been with her at all before or while she died, and generally what things were like for her that day and beforehand ( she'd recently improved, so her sudden passing was unexpected at that time ). No one ever called. I made the request again about a month later, and still no one ever called. I was far too upset and exhausted to keep badgering them and no one stepped up to the plate to pursue it further on my behalf, even my husband, so all this time I've never known a thing about her final days. I was all alone in almost everything surrounding her death. My father had severe dementia and didn't talk to me as a rule anyway, plus his 'stories' were too often just that, so I couldn't have trusted anything he said anyway. I'm still so bloody angry that the staff, especially the one nurse I'd been liasing with for 6 months ( a rather cold-hearted woman who no one who met her liked ) didn't even have the courtesy and respect to get back to me, even though she, personally, wasn't there that night...but she was in charge of that ward's staff, so she could have found who was. They just wanted my Mother out of their hair, mainly because of my father's behaviour over the time she was there, and obviously didn't care about any other family members who'd been around, expresssing care, either. I now HATE and completely distrust the 'medical establishment'. They all put on such helpful faces at the beginning, then showed their true colours as the months wore on. I'd rather be dead than be forced to be under their 'care'! So there's been NO end to the mysteries around my Mother's life and then her death. I still feel like I'm in limbo regarding this whole thing.

Paul S, I'm very sorry you, too, have to deal with such chaos in the family. I know of what you speak, having gone through ( and still doing so ) similar stuff in my own family, though your situation sounds rather more 'organized' as far as chaos goes. My family situation has gone from poor to never-to-be-mended, unless some great miracle occurs, which won't be of my own making. Though it's been 2 years already for me since first, my Mom, and then one brother died, I'm still not at a point where I can ever see forgiving my father and remaining brother for how they 'handled' my Mother's illness, death, final arrangements, sale of my parents' home and contents, and lastly, my father's Will and 'care' in the home he's in. My brother has stolen all their funds for himself, so as far as I'm concerned, HE owes ME apologies and much more and unless that happens, our family is dead forevermore. Everything died along with my Mother. I have no history left, as my place in the family as the lone daughter was totally invalidated with all that they did. I tried my best at the time to rectify some of this before things went too far, but my brother rebuked any chances I gave him to redress his wrongs, or our father's wrongs ( which preceded his ), so I've just been left out in the cold,, as if I never existed within my own family....just like my dear Mother. While your situation, personally, is much more dire, with immediate needs you must attend to, I can still relate to having all that extra pressure to deal with when you need to just REST and "switch gears" as you so aptly put it. I don't have much good advise to give you, since my anger is still so much alive, except for saying that whatever you do, yes, YOU and YOUR needs have to come first. We can never forget about ourselves and our own worth, when we're mourning....trust me - I've become physically ill due to all the stress and am now worried for my own health. I even know that this anger is a big part of my symptom picture, yet still haven't been able to get rid of it. So DO take whatever steps, in whatever order you see fit, to take care of yourself first, and deal with all the other complications as you can fit them in. I've come to realize that some siblings are just plain rotten people, and naturally, their worst behaviour often comes out during crisis. But knowing that doesn't, by itself, take away the hurt that's the by-product of such behaviour. Of COURSE it hurts, and deeply! When family members act opposite to the ideals of what family's supposed to mean to all of us, it's hard not to feel betrayed, belittled and unjustly treated. And when some of us see very quickly what's really important, ie. relationships, and others don't, it's doubly frustrating and painful. Our love is being rejected, by the ones who are 'supposed' to love us more than others. It may not be a realistic picture of how alot of families really operate, but this idealistic model persists in society and that makes it really tough for those of us who don't have terribly loving families to begin with. I say, if you have friends who will lend you some support, go for THAT, as blood is often NOT thicker than water. Try to detach with love ( if there is any ), as places like Al-Anon say, just to get through the mechanics of what physically needs doing. You can deal with only so much at one time when you're grieving, so don't put any extra pressure on yourself whevever you can help it. One step, one problem, one crisis at a time. One breath, one moment, one day at a time.

ustwo, Yes, that was a wonderful, timely 'gift' to find! Can I say I'm envious? I remember my remaining brother telling me, during the clear-out of our parents' house ( which I was kept in the dark about ), that he'd "made sure" he rescued the old film projector and our home movies. ( and yet he didn't save anything else that I might have wanted ) I told him I'd spliced and reglued them about 3 times in my adult life as they were in such poor shape. I'd done this, years ago, because I enjoyed watching them every so often, even if it was by myself. He'd never been very interested in them before. My Mom and I would usually be the ones to sit down and laugh at them together, and occasionally, my father, too, but not often. Now, this is the brother who refused to send me copies of the few remaining pictures from our family ( no one knows for sure what our father ultimately did with all of them - either burnt in the BBQ or sold to strangers ), and I remember wondering at the time whether he'd ever let me see them again, either. Since it's been 2 years now, I think I have my answer. Upon reflection, it sounds to me like he'd been bragging that HE had this precious store, to which I'd never be given access again. A cousin of mine supposedly has some copies of old pictures of my Mom, but she's never made the effort to send them to me. The one thing I do have is a short recording of part of a conversation between me and my Mom from her trip back into hospital after they'd overdosed her with blood thinner and caused internal hemorrhaging. However, this was the beginning of her steady decline, though she'd been doing extremely well until this, after her first stroke. So she doesn't sound either very happy or well and it hurts me so much I haven't listened to it more than twice in 2 years. It's not the same as happier times, though I treasure this unplanned recording, too...at least it's something. Now I can't help but feel like I have no history, since being denied what there was of these precious mementoes. And since one of the hallmarks of my grief has been memory loss, I know how hard it is to try and recall things without some kind of trigger. So those of us with real heart know what priceless memories and comfort such things contain, bringing a sense of balance to our sorrow and those more negative recollections. Despite my own frustrations, I truly AM happy for you to be able to find a measure of peace in your sad journey. It also does me good knowing there are others who realize how much value such things have. Truly priceless...

Juliette, As, I believe, Marty T. has said herself, the worst grief in the world is the grief you are experiencing right now. ( if this wasn't from you, Marty, I apologize - it's this poor memory thing! ) I actually did feel this way myself...that MY grief was worse than others'...but that was based on what everyone else was doing, what they were saying and how they were saying it, what they were not saying, and how hardly anyone was crying even one tear...but mainly on their actions, which I always believe DO speak louder than words....like quickly getting rid of things that belonged to my brother and my Mother, and not offering any of them to anyone else in the family, either, as just one minor example. So I honestly DO still believe I was the one with the most-broken heart in my family. But then, that's how it's always been, too, as I had the role of 'Feeler' in my family. However, I would have been satisfied just to know any of them were sad in ANY way, even if it wasn't like me...but that was not the way it was, unfortunately. In fact, I got the definite impression that my remaining brother was actually rather glad that our Mother had left....so she'd never be able to 'bother' him again. And the only comment he had about our brother was to whine about him dying so that HE had to handle our father's mess himself. ( meanwhile, he'd already planned months before to cheat me and our dead brother out of any inheritance, so our brother's help would have been taken, then betrayed ) He also told me that our brother's son "didn't seem too shaken up " at our brother's funeral, either ( I couldn't go; our nephew was, by his mother's own admission, happily playing with his friends and busy taking pictures with his new camera - he was 12 at the time of his father's death). Then my brother did steal all our parents' money, put our father in a home ( where he DID need to be at that point ) but didn't pay for his care or direly-needed supplies...just took the money and 'ran'....so what does that tell you? No love lost there. And he's the only sibling of mine left. Even my evil father at least shed some tears at the beginning, but also had dementia so could equally-easily be literally whistling a happy tune the next second...and he's the one who sold off everything of my Mom's, including pictures of her. And my dead brother?...he's always hidden his softer feelings and preferred to stay in the intellect, so while he wasn't a beast about it, he also wasn't crying at all or seeming unhappy...just logically accepting of our Mother's death. For all I know, his stuffing of feelings was what brought on the stroke that suddenly killed him 2 months later.So there can be cases where one person IS grieving more heavily than others, although no, of course, it isn't a contest. For me though, it would have been nice to have at least one more normal family member to share in the pain. As for cleaning to keep busy...while this can sometimes be a method by which to avoid the pain, I honestly wish I could react like this myself, at least once! Unfortunately, unlike many women I've heard this from, when I'm grieving, it knocks all the energy out of me and as a result our house has never been so dirty! ( by my standards, which are high in this dept. ) I'm about 5 years behind in some cleaning projects now, which doesn't do a whole lot of good for my self-esteem, either, not to mention my schedule. I feel like I'll never catch up again. And with more and more loss on the horizon ( father is almost 88; our furgirl almost 19; all aunts and uncles left, in their 80's ), I may have to just install dirt floors at this rate and call it a trend! So as long as it doesn't cause you grief complications later on, you might consider this reaction somewhat of a small blessing in disguise, as you can grieve in a clean house, knowing you don't have that to worry about on top of everything else. I also haven't ever been able to get back to my usual routine ( like, for my entire adult life )of preplanning menus and grocery lists in 2-wk. increments. This has been going on for all of 2 years now, and although I'm really tired of making dinners up at the last second, or having to go the route of pre-made food ( I cook from mainly scratch, as my Mother did ), I just can't seem to get that organized anymore...so I've truly lost a huge part of myself with their passings. My self-pride has really suffered a blow, as has my health now, from eating less healthily. The fall-out from mourning can be quite devastating, I'm finding.

Sarah, Well, just as I was about to reply to you I saw Tracy's response, and I have to say, there's little I can add at the outset to her posting. Your circumstances are so similar, I think you'll find alot to talk about together. Things were very different for me, with all 3 of my losses, but if it helps any, I'm into my second year since losing my Mom ( and one brother - both in the same year ) and while there are still plenty of things that hurt, I also know I'm not in as bad shape as the first year. In general, I think the longer we avoid the work of grieving, the longer and harder it is to progress to the point where it's not all-consuming in our lives. There are things to feel as deeply as we are able at any given moment, things to think about in our heads, things to try ( 'net boards, grief groups, individual counseling, etc, etc. ), things to read and educate ourselves about...a whole host of things to utilize in the interest of helping ourselves climb out of these dark, despairing holes. And I'm sure we'd all like to have done with it all yesterday! But it doesn't usually work that way. Also, with the holidays looming ( and I think that's a good word for how many of us feel about holidays now ), I'm sure that's playing a factor in your sorrow right now, as these feelings usually worsen during those times we particularly associated with our loved ones' presence. However, it does help to talk about your days of sadness, whenever they are, with whomever is willing to listen. And that's what we're ALL doing here in this healing place. I've found that the more people I've chatted with who understood and accepted my feelings, no matter what they were, the better off I was, the more able I was to be able to work through things as they came up....and it's not over yet, so here I still am!

Marty, Thanks again, Marty, for the help with this! I'm trying the 'invisible' thing, but it looks like there may be a problem with it remembering me, as I usually didn't have to log in ( as I'd checked the 'remember me' box, for convenience ), but after it said I was now logged in ( as invisible ) and I tried to post, it told me I wasn't logged in, so had to do so for a second time. We'll see how it works. As for the tutorial, I'm afraid I don't have the time to do all that - it's enough just to post here - but if anyone wanted to take on the task, I give full permission to use those particular parts of my posts dealing with the ins and outs of this techy stuff. Regarding the term 'pet', yes, I understand your reasoning and you made some valid points, especially the use of common terms for 'Googling' purposes - I never thought of that. I know ( of course I noticed ) you don't use the term in the negative way...one can usually tell who uses it which way. I don't have a great problem with it here - just a suggestion, as I happen to believe that language influences attitude, no matter what you're talking about. And unfortunately, having been fairly active with animal issues in the last decade, I know of too many who equate the word 'pet' with 'ornament/object for the home/image', which is why I've taken to not using that word personally if I can help it. Even 'guardian' isn't the best word, in my mind, although it does denote the responsibility we should have to animals we take in, but it's also a bit sterile. Sometimes the English language is just deficient.

Thanks for this, too, Marty. I've read this before and can agree with most of it, except for this one section, above. I always thought this makes sense, have certainly heard this said BY many grievers themselves, and have definitely FELT this as true. After all, when we don't love someone, or not so much, we usually don't grieve the same way, to the same depths, if we grieve at all. How could one NOT have anything to do with the other????? I don't get it.

Marty, Thanks for all your research! And glad to know I'm not the only one confused by the new-fangled thingamagigies! No, I don't quite understand the techy explanation for those quote buttons, either, though the first part makes sense. Also have been trying to use the "wrap in a quote" button above the post area, but can't seem to get a box out of it no matter which way I try it. Maybe it's not even designed to do this anymore, for all I know! If you come across something that works, please let us know, as it look so much tidier when boxed. I DO love the italicize, bold, underline and strike-out features now, though - SO much faster and easier with the newer method! I also can't figure out if one can hide one's name at the bottom of the board when browsing or whatever. The "Help" section suggests you can use this option, but doesn't tell you how. And I'm still wondering if there could be a Tutorial section added, to explain, in layperson's language of course!, how to use all the new features? So far, the email notifications still aren't working the way they're supposed to. I know this is being worked on, just updating you. And yes, good to see those ol' Smilies working again! ( although I think we could use one in the shape of a paw, for the Pet Loss forum! ) Speaking of which, any chance of changing the title to "ANIMAL COMPANION" Loss? With animal welfare groups trying to get laws changed, at least in the U.S., to strike the use of the word "owner" and substitute "animal guardian" legally, I find the term "pet" to be just as demeaning to the relationship we come here to grieve. We don't, after all, call our OTHER family members by such belittling terms...at least not the ones we love! Thanks again for your diligence and oh-so-helpful ways on this board!

Dear Blu, Let me express my sincere sympathies to you at this terrible time, for the loss of your dear Sandi. I relate to what you said about how you feel about having another furbaby, as I feel much the same. It is a tough decision for me though, as I know I'll feel guilty for not rescuing another soul in need, but we feel how we feel and neither decision is wrong. For me, I'm thinking I'd like to/have to start some kind of business that revolved around helping animals out ( most likely cats, as I know the most about them and totally 'get' them ), like fostering them or cat-sitting in my own home, volunteering my help to my friend's no-kill home or something like that. I truly can't see myself NOT having cats in my life somehow, for the rest of my days, but don't think I can emotionally handle the sorrow of losing my own again...as I still have one to go and I'm afraid her passing will kill me, even if it doesn't. My biggest hurdle might be my husband, as he thinks he's going to just put his foot down and not allow me to follow my heart! He's seen how my babies' health issues and our one loss so far has given me so much anguish, and how our lifestyle has been changed to accomodate their conditions ( by our choice, though ) and just doesn't want to repeat that. However, I don't think he's realized that my very spirit may well shrivel to nothing without a furry soul for me to love. So we'll see. It's certainly not a black and white issue. Having said that, it's so very hard to lose our beloveds and every person here who's gone through or is in the process of going through this incredible and often unaccepted pain knows how much our hearts ache and burn, wishing we could turn back the hands of time and change things to avoid this sorrow. We're all here to give and receive support in our times of need, so please come back and share what you like about Sandi, as our 'paws' are extended in kinship with you.

Lita, I'm glad you managed to get a message through at last and it was good to hear back from you. While it doesn't make the pain any less, really, it also does somehow comfort, I think, to know our babies got to live their 'entire' lifespan, at least this is what I'm imagining it feels like. Having lost my boy several years earlier than what would have been normal, I only truly know the opposite, but I think this idea will offer me some respite when my girl's time comes, as she's now almost 19 ( which is around 100 in human years, give or take )as at least one can know their lives weren't cut short then. In any case, I'm glad that you seem to have found something good from finding out your darling's true age. I also think your plan to rescue another precious soul is an absolutely wonderful way to honour your relationship with her. She's probably very proud of her mom! I wish I could say I'll do the same, but I don't know yet if I'll be able to. But it's something I aspire to. I think you've progressed so far, already! Don't hesitate to come back and share whatever you want or have to ( if you can get that darn post to work again! ), as this door's always open to grieving hearts.

Dester and Marty: Dester, This has to be one of the worst parts for me of all this unfinished business. While I know quite a bit about my Mom's background, as she confided in me in ways she didn't with my brothers ( sometimes inappropriately, but I'm still glad I know about these things now ), there remain some family secrets, both from her family-or-origin and mine, that would help me to understand and therefore accept more of what went on in my family ~ the big 'WHY'S' ~ if I knew more about them. I've put off, for all of these 2 years, seeing if I can get some of the answers from her medical history, because it's likely to be denied me and I'm so tired of having to fight for my rights as a family member. It would bring up all the same issues again that surrounded my Mom's passing and I haven't wanted to go there yet again. The government makes nothing easy for families in grief! But it might put to rest some of this stuff, too. It would require several letters, which I just haven't wanted to write. So no kidding, this grief is complicated!! Marty, And that brings up another point, which I'm hoping you might be able to answer, Marty. While I'm well aware of the whole idea of certain family members taking on the role of 'fixer', which is definitely what I did, I did work hard through the years to give up those actions associated with this role. With every conversation with my Mom, I was aware of when that urge would present itself, and made conscious efforts to not take it farther than what would be considered reasonable, in the way of suggestions, etc. for my Mom's self-care. However, despite all this intellectual knowing, that feeling has remained in the forefront during my grief, even when I remind myself that I did what I could, within reason, to help my Mom and that it was her life to do with as she pleased. Yet the guilt I feel over not being able, for whatever reasons, to 'fix' her life, health, our relationship or what-have-you, is hanging on. I'm afraid I'll never get rid of this and wondered if you could shed more light on this psychological condition and suggest any methods to overcome it, once and for all? ( or is this very topic covered in that book you'd suggested, the name of which escapes me right now? ) Any help with this would be so very appreciated! Maylissa

Dester, I've been trying to figure this one out myself, except for me, my Mom wasn't in my life terribly much ( at least that's how I compare her presence with others' moms) and yet, somehow her presence feels large to me now. It's not rational at all and yet there's the same feeling as you have. Like you, I just miss having her in my life, too, no matter what else. . I can answer the same way here, although I didn't get to spend more time with my Mom even later on. I've felt so often this year like the daughter from Hades, either not doing because of my own reasons, or not being able to do for other reasons beyond my control, all the things I'd dreamed of doing, with and for, my Mom. Distance was one large consideration, as was income, as were a host of other things....but now, with her gone, all I focus on is how I could have been a much better daughter than I was. My husband's quick to point out how my Mom could have been a much better Mom than she was, and that I beat her by a county mile in many ways, but it still seems to fall mainly deafly upon my ears. The guilt is reigning supreme this year. Again, such similarity between us...yes, this was me and my Mom, too, even as far as the favouring of one of my brothers in many ways, in the important ways. He got the benefit of the doubt in everything, while I was expected to be perfect even in the face of extreme injustice perpetrated against me. He got forgiven every trespass ( and there were many, and heinous ones ), while my 'sins' were broadcast and often twisted in the telling, and on and on. As my husband just said, my Mom concentrated on the 'wrong' child, while my heart was always in the right place and she just didn't recognize that often enough to be fair. And yet, she loved me, too, and did many loving acts for me, even if the words to accompany them often weren't there. I've often wondered just how I could have come from the same family as the rest of them and yet, despite such extreme differences overall, I always felt me and my Mom had the closest familial relationship, all differences aside. It's the strangest dichotomy, and yet this is what I cling to, in my fond memories as well as my grief. Even the tension those differences caused between us also somehow made our connection to each other stronger. There was an underlying passion in our battles, where we wanted to connect more closely....we just couldn't speak the same language. I wish I'd been smarter then, enough to realize how strong that bond really was, how vital it was, despite the distance, both physical and emotional. I, too, loved my Mom more than I ever felt she knew, as there was often so much strife, or in later years, enough dementia in her, that it was virtually impossible to get through to her on a deeper level...or so I thought...but now I wonder if I was wrong in that assumption. I was robbed of the kind of mother my Mom could have and would have been, had her circumstances and choices been healthier, and yet it was also partly her doing that led to such destruction. So I love her and am mad at her, for denying me the kind of mother I believe I deserved. In reality, I mainly lost her and all the possibilities we had as mother and daughter a long time ago, but still hoped that one day, magically, before she died, she'd awake to those possibilities and realize what she'd missed out on, too, and somehow be able to work back towards that. And while I still feel we got much of that the last time I saw her in rehab., it feels like it's never going to be enough to sustain me. Now I'm left with trying to create enough self-love inside to make up for all I lost, or never had, all by myself. The child inside me cries out for my mommy and now must grieve for all those earlier hurts I never fully grieved, as well as those of having lost her. The adult in me cries for not having been wise enough to just give her the love she needed as much as I did, when she was here to receive it.

ustwo, I don't find this 'abnormal' at all. The normal joys we experienced before our losses are duller with a broken heart anyway and in addition to that, I think we naturally create a kind of defense mechanism inside, akin to shock, during special occasions and seasons, to further dull the pain we'd feel in even more intensity otherwise. What little gift-buying I was involved with the first Christmas after my losses, was very mechanical, w/o the usual feelings of warmth that normally accompanied such choices. Approaching my second year, I'm surprised to find that lingering in some ways, with feelings of gratitude that I can buy things other loved ones want or need, but it's still not what I would call joyous and anticipatory joy, like it used to be. We helped out at free, local charity dinners 2 years in a row, and while it was sort of nice to be around a couple of people who knew of my losses ( who were also helping out there ), it really didn't do a whole lot more for my spirit, other than intellectually knowing I was being of service to someone. I was still NEEDING more than being able to GIVE. And so I took where I could, and gave where I could, but none of it felt very fulfilling. Yes, it IS so exhausting, but I'm just beginning to have hope that it DOES improve, in time.