Girlfriend broke things off during grief

[kayc]

16 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

if she were to move on right now, after sying she can't handle a relationship and not telling me if we have a future yet, then shes not someone I want to be with anyway.

That's a good point to keep in mind, but also, someone who could throw you overboard in their grief is not someone I'd want to count on as my life partner either!  That's something that helped me move forward after Jim dumped me w/o a backwards glance when his mom was dying.  If I ever have a partner again, I'd want to be confident in their commitment to our relationship no matter what comes along in life.  Isn't that what all the "richer or poorer, in sickness and in health" stuff is about?!

[BaxterBurg]

6 hours ago, kayc said:

someone who could throw you overboard in their grief is not someone I'd want to count on as my life partner either

For sure, I try to remind myself this. Especially because she didn't even talk to me about how she was feeling, and was so hesitent about telling me what was going on in her home in the first place. This is supposed to be a partnership, I want to be there for the person I love as they shoud be there for me as well.

[Rae1991]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:34 PM, BaxterBurg said:

I tend to beleive this too, but i'm not sure. I hope this is the case for both of us. I guess I will find out at our meeting in a month or two. She said herself she has no reason to not want to be with me; but again, who knows if its true or if theyre just sparing feelings. a situation like this can really just drive you crazy if you let it. I hope we arn't giving our ex's too much credit with how good they really are. Some people I talk to seem to think my ex was awful for how she dealt with everything; and others are more understanding but still put off by some of the things she said to me. It seems with every action theres stwo ways you could interpret it. Her not gtting back to me on the movie for example seems like she wants nothing to do with me anymore; or its because shes so consumed by her grief still that it slipped her mind etc. Genuinly feels like a nightmare.

 

She is sending mixed signals, plain and simple. She is confused and unsure of what she wants, and she's bringing you into her confusion, even if unintentionally. Have you ever heard the saying "misery loves company?" Well, so does confusion. That's not fair to you. While her intent may not be malicious, it still affects you in a negative way and keeps you holding onto the hope that she may get back together in the future. If she chooses not to resume the relationship, it will only crush you all over again. I know this from experience.

5 years ago, my then boyfriend of about 18 months Tim (I know it says 14 months in previous threads, but I realize now that was an error on my part) left me abruptly when his dad died. He didn't even tell me, he just stopped returning my calls. A week went by before I just went to his house and asked him what happened. He then told me, but explained he just needed alone time and that he didn't want to break up and that he just needed a few days to himself. "A few days" turned into 3 months. By then I was just as confused and had come to the conclusion our relationship was over so I had started the process of moving forward. Then he came back, apologized and said he wanted to reconcile, and I believed him because I was still in love with him. Things went fine for about 3 months before he disappeared a second time. No explanation, not even a word. By then I was just done and had nothing to say, but it still hurt all over again. Never let someone tell you they don't want you twice.

I say this to say, your feelings of being "done" and your gut that she's waffling and uncertain, are 100% valid. Trust your gut. I knew deep down that Tim and I's relationship wasn't going to go further, but I let my heart override my intuition. On certain things yes, you should follow your heart, but when a person has given you a million and 1 reasons to believe their behavior does not align with their words, and that you should be "done," you need to trust it. Also, she broke up with you. Why would you want to continue begging someone to love you after they already made it clear they don't want you? Especially now that she's jerking you around emotionally because she is confused. You said it yourself, you feel "done," tapped out and exhausted, that's your body and mind telling you what your heart doesn't want to accept. I have come to realize that often, grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

 Yes, her grief may be a factor in her current behavior, however, people know what they're doing; you cannot blame her actions completely on naivety and external factors. After a certain point, her behavior is a deliberate choice and grief is an excuse. If you read my thread from a few years ago, you can see that I used the deaths of my grandfather and best friend as an excuse to abandon my relationship and spend months laying in bed neglecting every aspect of my life. Yes, I was depressed, however, my behavior toward my boyfriend and refusal to seek help was inexcusable after a certain point. My reaction to grief was also a symptom of much deeper issues I refused to confront that had nothing to do with the grief itself. I have come to realize these intense reactions and abandonment of partners and destructive behavior, are symptoms of deeper problems. Tim had them too, as I found out from his family after the fact that he had "dumped" previous girlfriends in similar ways, had issues with women, was deeply insecure and had fractured relationships with both parents due to ongoing emotional abuse and abandonment growing up.

Tims family was extremely upset with him after I told them how he behaved toward me, they apologized on his behalf, and they shouldn't have had to because it wasn't their fault. I also came to the realization that despite how I would have treated him in this situation, you can't expect the same decency from everyone, and that you need to disabuse yourself from the notion that they owe you closure, apologies, friendship or reconciliation. If you operate from the belief you are owed these things from others, you will never move forward. I had to create my own closure from both of my previous long-term relationships because neither of them were ever going to close that wound. Even if they had given me explanations, would they have been enough? Nope. I would still have more questions and my heart would still hurt. The person that broke your heart cannot be the one to fix it.

😊 Rae

[BaxterBurg]

Hello Rae, I really appreciate you reading and responding to my post.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

4.5 years ago, my then boyfriend of about 18 months Tim (I know it says 14 months in previous threads, but I realize now that was an error on my part) left me abruptly when his dad died. He didn't even tell me, he just stopped returning my calls. A week went by before I just went to his house and asked him what happened. He then told me, but explained he just needed alone time and that he didn't want to break up and that he just needed a few days to himself. "A few days" turned into 3 months. By then I was just as confused and had come to the conclusion our relationship was over so I had started the process of moving forward. Then he came back, apologized and said he wanted to reconcile, and I believed him because I was still in love with him. Things went fine for about 3 months before he disappeared a second time. No explanation, not even a word. By then I was just done and had nothing to say, but it still hurt all over again. Never let someone tell you they don't want you twice.

I have read your story a few times on here, and I'm very sorry you had to go though that. It makes me thankful that she didn't do something that drastic. Although, maybe it would have been easier if she just left cmpletetly. It seemd that she desperatly wanted space away from me but wouldn't ask for it; she didn't want to be "that girl" that just throws their ex to the curb, and leaves and doesn't give answers after a break up. But you're story has given me a lot to think about regarding second chances. I can't ever see the spark coming bck after all thats happened, there just too many bad memories. We had maybe a month or two of being bf/gf but still limited by covid. At this point, there been much more bad than good, and who knows how long thie fallout will last, I'm still hurting. I hate to say that my first love experience has been the worst few months of my life. And I think she has some serious issues that she needs to deal with, I could see her maybe breaking up with me twice. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

She is sending mixed signals, plain and simple. She is confused and unsure of what she wants, and she's bringing you into her confusion, even if unintentionally. Have you ever heard the saying "misery loves company?" Well, so does confusion. That's not fair to you. While her intent may not be malicious, it still affects you in a negative way and keeps you holding onto the hope that she may get back together in the future. If she chooses not to resume the relationship, it will only crush you all over again. I know this from experience

 

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

Why would you want to continue begging someone to love you after they already made it clear they don't want you? Especially now that she's jerking you around emotionally because she is confused. You said it yourself, you feel "done," tapped out and exhausted, that's your body and mind telling you what your heart doesn't want to accept. I have come to realize that often, grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

You're 100% right, and I did reach my breaking point as you maybe read earlier. I left with some possibly harsh words towards her, saying that if she wants this to work then thts up to her. I've done all I can at this point and we need some time apart because she needs to heal. I said some other things that maybe were too bold but I felt that I had to push her away somewhat to save myelf. I was getting so angry with her after she wouldn't even give me a yes or no answer on doing something with me. It felt like a f*** you despite me just helping her with school and being there for her.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

My reaction to grief was also a symptom of much deeper issues I refused to confront that had nothing to do with the grief itself. I have come to realize these intense reactions and abandonment of partners and destructive behavior, are symptoms of deeper problems

hmm I'v been thinking about this a lot recently. She stayed in a relationship with an ex who negelected her for 3 years because she didnt want to be lonely and because they had "chemistry". I also have a feeling that something bad was going on there, but she never told me. Even after our break up I asked why she stayed for so long, and she went into a long story about how awful he was, and she still said that our relationship put it into perpspective on what a relationship should be like.

But she seemingly came from a very nice home. I met her family and they seemed very nice. She was very close with them, and they often worked as a single unit through everything. 

My ex also seemed to be deeply insecure, I'm not sure why. She started posting selfies like crazy afer we broke up. Maybe it was because of the last relationship she was in. I have a feeling shes dealing with a deep conflict within herself: she dated this guy for 3 years who was awful, but then she meets someone who supposidly "made her realize what she wanted in a relationship" and the relationship lasts 5 months. She always had a complex about "being like the ther girls" who drop good guys--now she did it herself. She even said there ws no reason she wouldn't want to be with me, she never said I did anything wrong. She was actually overly thankful towards me to the point that it didn't seem genuine and because of guilt.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

you need to disabuse yourself from the notion that they owe you closure, apologies, friendship or reconciliatio

I'll keep this in mind. I just honestly can't wrap my head around this behaviour. She has already apologized for me "being put in the middle of all this" and she wanted friendship right after the break up, so I'm thankful for that at least. But the closure aspect I don't think I will ever get. You re right, that closure will only come fromy myself.

 

 

[BaxterBurg]

10 hours ago, Rae1991 said:

grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

I think you are right here. I laid out my entire self to her when we were friends for 5 months--we talked a lot about what we beleived, wanted in life, etc. She had some "problems" with me. She still chose to date me, but I know she always carried these doubts int the relationship. Her communication style was "passive" and she didnt want to start problems. In her past relationship, she just let the negelct happen. She told me she "isn't one for starting problems" and never wanted arguments, so she never spoke up. These doubts she just threw at me at the end of the relationship, and only after I asked her: "do you have any problems with me?" I was tying to figure out why she was being so cold and pulling away from me. Prior, she wouldn't tell me anything. I asked her for weeks why she was sad and she wouldn't even tell me. I asked her why there was some distnace between us--nothing! Just all of the sudden the good mornings stopped, no more I love you's, no more hearts. after a while I just jokingly said that I would love to see a heart while im at work and she got upset with me.

 I asked her when she was doubting me: You knew I was like this from the start, why is it a problem now? And it seemd she was now weighing whether this would be a good long term relationship--she said "the hneymoon phase is over and I don't know if this will be good in the long run" (who says something like this?) I guess the grief pushed her into making a decision and her grandfathers turn for the worst made her unable to handle it anymore. She's still confused as you say. I was expecting this break up everyday for a month. It was terrible. She left me in uncertainty twice not even knowing if we were still together until the next day. She said she didn't mean to do that to me, but that was incredibly inconsiderate. 

The other user Selena says her communication is what led to this, and I beleive that to be true.

 

Thanks Rae, your post helps me a lot, and gives me plenty to consider.

[Rae1991]

2 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

Hello Rae, I really appreciate you reading and responding to my post.

I have read your story a few times on here, and I'm very sorry you had to go though that. It makes me thankful that she didn't do something that drastic. Although, maybe it would have been easier if she just left cmpletetly. It seemd that she desperatly wanted space away from me but wouldn't ask for it; she didn't want to be "that girl" that just throws their ex to the curb, and leaves and doesn't give answers after a break up. But you're story has given me a lot to think about regarding second chances. I can't ever see the spark coming bck after all thats happened, there just too many bad memories. We had maybe a month or two of being bf/gf but still limited by covid. At this point, there been much more bad than good, and who knows how long thie fallout will last, I'm still hurting. I hate to say that my first love experience has been the worst few months of my life. And I think she has some serious issues that she needs to deal with, I could see her maybe breaking up with me twice. 

You're 100% right, and I did reach my breaking point as you maybe read earlier. I left with some possibly harsh words towards her, saying that if she wants this to work then thts up to her. I've done all I can at this point and we need some time apart because she needs to heal. I said some other things that maybe were too bold but I felt that I had to push her away somewhat to save myelf. I was getting so angry with her after she wouldn't even give me a yes or no answer on doing something with me. It felt like a f*** you despite me just helping her with school and being there for her.

hmm I'v been thinking about this a lot recently. She stayed in a relationship with an ex who negelected her for 3 years because she didnt want to be lonely and because they had "chemistry". I also have a feeling that something bad was going on there, but she never told me. Even after our break up I asked why she stayed for so long, and she went into a long story about how awful he was, and she still said that our relationship put it into perpspective on what a relationship should be like.

But she seemingly came from a very nice home. I met her family and they seemed very nice. She was very close with them, and they often worked as a single unit through everything. 

My ex also seemed to be deeply insecure, I'm not sure why. She started posting selfies like crazy afer we broke up. Maybe it was because of the last relationship she was in. I have a feeling shes dealing with a deep conflict within herself: she dated this guy for 3 years who was awful, but then she meets someone who supposidly "made her realize what she wanted in a relationship" and the relationship lasts 5 months. She always had a complex about "being like the ther girls" who drop good guys--now she did it herself. She even said there ws no reason she wouldn't want to be with me, she never said I did anything wrong. She was actually overly thankful towards me to the point that it didn't seem genuine and because of guilt.

I'll keep this in mind. I just honestly can't wrap my head around this behaviour. She has already apologized for me "being put in the middle of all this" and she wanted friendship right after the break up, so I'm thankful for that at least. But the closure aspect I don't think I will ever get. You re right, that closure will only come fromy myself.

 

 

You seem to be about the age I was when Joe (my first boyfriend ever, and ex before I dated Tim) and I broke up, I was 21 and he was 25, we were engaged, living together and had been together since I was 14. Joe cheated for a year before finally deciding to tell me "he loved me, but liked her..." he left me for a 16 year old girl. In 2016, about 3 months after things ended for good between Tim and I, and I was leaving the city to move for work, he finally apologized for how he treated me. Joe explained that had he met me now (2016) he would've been able to commit and marry me because he had grown up a bit, dated around and gotten 'it' out of his system. He too asked to reconcile and try again. We had been broken up at that point for almost 4 years and had no contact. I feel the only reason Joe did this was because he was lonely and felt guilty, as that girl he cheated with and left me for did exactly that to him some time later. By then I wanted none of his apologies and no longer cared, I refused his offer to reconcile and don't regret it one bit, even to this day. We grew apart as we got older, we were right for a time, but what I wanted changed and he was no longer it.

I remember Tim telling me, early on in 2016, that if his dad hadn't died, we would've stayed together. I don't believe that because we were fundamentally incompatible, there were glaring red flags and character flaws, and he treated me, my goals and career aspirations as a competitor rather than a partner, and I started to understand and recognize that in the months after things ended. Tim was great on paper, but in real life he was an emotionally unavailable workaholic who was given a job through nepotism, lazy, unambitious and had no desire to move forward in his life or do anything different. I had just graduated school, had travel and career plans, and was already looking for jobs in other states.

I say all that to say: This does not last, and in time you will begin to recognize (as you're already doing) the character flaws and incompatibility between the two of you. I read Selena's post and agree as well, your ex has severe communication issues and she is insecure on a level that is too deep for you to help with. She needs to fix those issues herself, it's not your job to do that. She seems young and is still figuring out her own identity, I used to say/believe "Im not like other girls" to be appealing to men and to try and be different; but to be honest, that's just a backhand insult to yourself and one that women often hear from men to make them feel special. It's not a compliment at all.

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship. You said she stayed with an ex who neglected her, that's common. She lacks the self-awareness to understand why she's drawn to and stays with guys like that, and I am sure with time and therapy she will hopefully recognize that these men do no change their ways and that no good comes from staying. She is self-sabotaging and that comes from insecurity and naivety, both are common in your teens and 20s, but she needs to do the work to practice better lifestyle and coping habits (as do most people as they age). She may have thought she was ready to be in a relationship "that defined what relationships should be" but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships. Despite it only being a few months, it sounds like that is partially what happened, her grief simply expedited these issues coming to head in time.

😊 Rae

[BaxterBurg]

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

You seem to be about the age I was when Joe (my first boyfriend ever, and ex before I dated Tim) and I broke up, I was 21 and he was 25, we were engaged, living together and had been together since I was 14. Joe cheated for a year before finally deciding to tell me "he loved me, but liked her..." he left me for a 16 year old girl. In 2016, about 3 months after things ended for good between Tim and I, and I was leaving the city to move for work, he finally apologized for how he treated me. Joe explained that had he met me now (2016) he would've been able to commit and marry me because he had grown up a bit, dated around and gotten 'it' out of his system. He too asked to reconcile and try again. We had been broken up at that point for almost 4 years and had no contact. I feel the only reason Joe did this was because he was lonely and felt guilty, as that girl he cheated with and left me for did exactly that to him some time later. By then I wanted none of his apologies and no longer cared, I refused his offer to reconcile and don't regret it one bit, even to this day. We grew apart as we got older, we were right for a time, but what I wanted changed and he was no longer it.

I remember Tim telling me, early on in 2016, that if his dad hadn't died, we would've stayed together. I don't believe that because we were fundamentally incompatible, there were glaring red flags and character flaws, and he treated me, my goals and career aspirations as a competitor rather than a partner, and I started to understand and recognize that in the months after things ended. Tim was great on paper, but in real life he was an emotionally unavailable workaholic who was given a job through nepotism, lazy, unambitious and had no desire to move forward in his life or do anything different. I had just graduated school, had travel and career plans, and was already looking for jobs in other states.

I say all that to say: This does not last, and in time you will begin to recognize (as you're already doing) the character flaws and incompatibility between the two of you. I read Selena's post and agree as well, your ex has severe communication issues and she is insecure on a level that is too deep for you to help with. She needs to fix those issues herself, it's not your job to do that. She seems young and is still figuring out her own identity, I used to say/believe "Im not like other girls" to be appealing to men and to try and be different; but to be honest, that's just a backhand insult to yourself and one that women often hear from men to make them feel special. It's not a compliment at all.

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship. You said she stayed with an ex who neglected her, that's common. She lacks the self-awareness to understand why she's drawn to and stays with guys like that, and I am sure with time and therapy she will hopefully recognize that these men do no change their ways and that no good comes from staying. She is self-sabotaging and that comes from insecurity and naivety, both are common in your teens and 20s, but she needs to do the work to practice better lifestyle and coping habits (as do most people as they age). She may have thought she was ready to be in a relationship "that defined what relationships should be" but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships. Despite it only being a few months, it sounds like that is partially what happened, her grief simply expedited these issues coming to head in time.

😊 Rae

Hello Rae.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine being cheated on, seriously. I'm inspired by your strength to refuse him when he came back; I feel that I need this strength as well. I feel weak because I keep wanting her to come back even though I don't think I have feelings for her. I think it stems from fear of not finding someone else; its hard for me to click with people, and dating isn't something I'm too interested in. 

You and Selena are right about the identity etc. She seemed to have adopted this identity after leaving highschool and being more exposed to politics--I'm sure i influenced her as well. I hope in time she is able to gain some perspective on this relationship later on; that gives me some solace through all this. I hate that she had to make me suffer for so long while she was figuring herself out. I just don't know how to find someone who knows what they want: People being so unsure or searching for an identity seems like one of those problems of modernity. I know who I am, and I've always been confident in exactly what I want out of life; i told her everything right off the bat. I don't want to have to go through constant pain because the people I date don't know what they want. Do you have an advice here? What are the red flags to look out for?

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship

hm, that's a sad thought. I hope she isn't that selfish... I have this gut feeling though that she is getting angier at me through NC. She posted some weird thing on twitter that seemed directed at me after 17 days of NC. She also stopped viewing and likingm y social media posts. She probably didn't like that I told her off bascially either. I'll show you what she said in a private message.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships

The way she deals with her problems is by ignoring them and pretending they arn't there. She has a fear of pain I've noticed, and would rather just go on as if it didnt happen. Thats how she was dealing with grief as well. She didn't want to talk about her problems with me because she said it was "complaining" but i could subtetly tell she always wanted me to bring it up so she coud cry and let it all out. Thats what I would for for her all the time, almost everyday. Made me feel terrible though. Seeing her in pain would really upset me, and when she wouldn't tell me her feelings i felt useless and shame. I guess thats a guy thing, always wanting to help etc. 

Thanks Rae, I think you have some excellent insights here. Appreciate it.

[kayc]

6 hours ago, Rae1991 said:

I had to create my own closure

Yep!  I've learned to do that too when the other is too cowardly to do so when they ended it.

1 hour ago, BaxterBurg said:

She posted some weird thing on twitter that seemed directed at me after 17 days of NC.

Don't look there, that's why no contact includes access to social media and "friends" reports!

 

[BaxterBurg]

2 minutes ago, kayc said:

Don't look there, that's why no contact includes access to social media and "friends" reports

You're right. I didn't bother blocking her on twitter because she never ever posted there; She only went on there because I would send her things. It took me off guard and just showed up on my home page. Social media is brutal, we should go back to just writing letters haha.

[Rae1991]

As far as the advice goes on red flags, I will post articles and video links because they can explain it in a way that is more concise and relatable than I could. There's also thousands of others available. Mind you, take this advice with a grain of salt as there are variances and some dating advice is just bad, and being able to see this behavior is a good way to spot these in yourself as well so you can work on them and improve yourself. Remember dating is a lot of trial and error, stop putting so much energy into and pressure on yourself and your dates. If they're not what you want, or vice versa, don't take it personally. Just keep on. Learn to just enjoy the date/conversation for what it is without the expectation that it will turn into a relationship. You're not supposed to date every person you meet. Just enjoy your life, have hobbies, join classes, join gyms, do things you've wanted to do, work on yourself and you will find people with similar interests and widen your dating pool. Don't take rejection personally, think of it as a redirect. You're not right for everyone because you're not supposed to be. Have confidence, know who you are and what you want from a partner and relationship:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-red-flags-guide-avoid-psychology-power-tinder-dates-secrets-a8849541.html

https://www.self.com/story/relationship-red-flags-never-ignore

https://firstthings.org/8-warning-signs-of-unhealthy-dating-relationships/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/millennial-media/201312/13-dating-red-flags-women Even though it says "women," many of these are universal to dating in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsG6HyZLuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuDIvOL0Ac

 

As I mentioned, even if the video/post specifies a certain gender, it's pretty universal advice for anyone dating.

[BaxterBurg]

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

As far as the advice goes on red flags, I will post articles and video links because they can explain it in a way that is more concise and relatable than I could. There's also thousands of others available. Mind you, take this advice with a grain of salt as there are variances and some dating advice is just bad, and being able to see this behavior is a good way to spot these in yourself as well so you can work on them and improve yourself. Remember dating is a lot of trial and error, stop putting so much energy into and pressure on yourself and your dates. If they're not what you want, or vice versa, don't take it personally. Just keep on. Learn to just enjoy the date/conversation for what it is without the expectation that it will turn into a relationship. You're not supposed to date every person you meet. Just enjoy your life, have hobbies, join classes, join gyms, do things you've wanted to do, work on yourself and you will find people with similar interests and widen your dating pool. Don't take rejection personally, think of it as a redirect. You're not right for everyone because you're not supposed to be. Have confidence, know who you are and what you want from a partner and relationship:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-red-flags-guide-avoid-psychology-power-tinder-dates-secrets-a8849541.html

https://www.self.com/story/relationship-red-flags-never-ignore

https://firstthings.org/8-warning-signs-of-unhealthy-dating-relationships/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/millennial-media/201312/13-dating-red-flags-women Even though it says "women," many of these are universal to dating in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsG6HyZLuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuDIvOL0Ac

 

As I mentioned, even if the video/post specifies a certain gender, it's pretty universal advice for anyone dating.

Thanks Rae. I think I have a lot of this mindset nailed done already, I just gotta bring it back to where it was prior to this mess. Me and her just had too many plans set out, and too many bad experiences--I think that's why its killing me right now. I'll check these out.

[BaxterBurg]

Hey everyone, just wanted to give an update for anyone who's in the same boat.

I decided to reach out after 32 days of NC, and I know many people in my situation are always considering doing the same thing. Unlike others though, I genuinly wanted to stay in NC and hide. While I wouldn't tell you not to do the same, its only fair that you know whats at risk. In short, my progress has been set back significantly, and the physical pain and tears have returned. It is like reopening a wound.

I had rebuilt myself quite well before doing this, and I was decently happy/optimistic, but also deeply bothered by some of the things that occured between us after I was able to reflect. Some of it will actually scar me forever. Moreover, I was, and still am, convinced that if someone loses feelings for you, especially a month before breaking it off, no amount of NC would ever bring those feelings back.

Before leaving, she said she would be there for me if I needed to talk, but she kind of brushed me off saying something "significant" has happened since we last talked, she has a lot on her plate, and she just doesn't feel comfortable bringing up "that time" right now. I understand though, and I'm a bit worried for her. I don't think she's doing well.

Overall, the conversation was good, but I can't tell if she's just talking to me out of pity/guilt, which is kind of humiliating; might just be bthering her too. I kind of wish she had ignored me because that would have at least given me closure. But I guess thats something to consider if you do go back. Just going to leave her be, I need to focus on school at this point. 

Just a warning for those looking to end NC.

[kayc]

21 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

In short, my progress has been set back significantly, and the physical pain and tears have returned. It is like reopening a wound.

Absolutely.  That's why I WILL and DO not recommend this.  It takes time to heal and gain clarity, we need to give ourselves that.  If you give it more time, you will likely be healed enough to not have such high emotional response and can see clearly itt was not meant to be.  As it is, in the thick of it, you feel all of the wishing you could get back, change things, pain, rejections, etc. etc.

[BaxterBurg]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:43 AM, kayc said:

Absolutely.  That's why I WILL and DO not recommend this.  It takes time to heal and gain clarity, we need to give ourselves that.  If you give it more time, you will likely be healed enough to not have such high emotional response and can see clearly itt was not meant to be.  As it is, in the thick of it, you feel all of the wishing you could get back, change things, pain, rejections, etc. etc.

Yeah, you're right. I thought I had gained clarity, and reached a state of indifference over her, but the feelings rushed back and I felt stuck in the situation again.

However, I have a strong suspicion she went back to her bad ex within this time frame and she's keeping me on the back burner, or talking to me out of guilt. She's also just acting weird, and her personality changed since we last talked. I think she tried to adopt my personality in the relationship and now she's going back to her high school self and old relationship. It's like she took a step into the adult world and is retreating back into being a child who hides from negative feelings.

This is where I let go and end this chapter of my life. 

The one positive I can say about exiting NC is that it gave me closure. Her waffling left hope and I kept convincing myself she was someone I wanted. It took like 12 people telling me the same thing and this to genuinely move on. I'm hurting but at least I'm free. 

Thanks for everyone's help through this. I hope it helps someone else in the same situation. It's very possible that many of the people who leave during grief can be explained by immaturity/fear of pain. That's how it comes off to me anyway. 

[kayc]

18 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

Her waffling left hope

Oh man, I know this one!  Jim did the same with me, he did not know his own mind, but it was yanking me around emotionally really bad!  I remember the last time I decided to steel my heart against letting him into my heart and let what he said go out the other ear and not let him yank me around emotionally.  We have to guard our hearts against them.  Good thing too, as the last few years he's got his XW living with him and now they spend all their time together and do things together just like a married couple.  It would not have had a happy ever after ending.  I may be alone but I'm not stupid and I don't need the drama in my life.  There's something to be said for peace.

There is someone I care about but haven't ever told him, but he's someone who has a positive affect on me every time we talk, doesn't live here though so that makes it much more complicated.  Oh well, what will be will be, I can't worry about what I can't change.  It has helped that I have clarity and realize what I need/want, even if it is kind of a lifetime too late.

 

[Rae1991]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:04 AM, BaxterBurg said:

Hey everyone, just wanted to give an update for anyone who's in the same boat.

I decided to reach out after 32 days of NC, and I know many people in my situation are always considering doing the same thing. Unlike others though, I genuinly wanted to stay in NC and hide. While I wouldn't tell you not to do the same, its only fair that you know whats at risk. In short, my progress has been set back significantly, and the physical pain and tears have returned. It is like reopening a wound.

I had rebuilt myself quite well before doing this, and I was decently happy/optimistic, but also deeply bothered by some of the things that occured between us after I was able to reflect. Some of it will actually scar me forever. Moreover, I was, and still am, convinced that if someone loses feelings for you, especially a month before breaking it off, no amount of NC would ever bring those feelings back.

Before leaving, she said she would be there for me if I needed to talk, but she kind of brushed me off saying something "significant" has happened since we last talked, she has a lot on her plate, and she just doesn't feel comfortable bringing up "that time" right now. I understand though, and I'm a bit worried for her. I don't think she's doing well.

Overall, the conversation was good, but I can't tell if she's just talking to me out of pity/guilt, which is kind of humiliating; might just be bthering her too. I kind of wish she had ignored me because that would have at least given me closure. But I guess thats something to consider if you do go back. Just going to leave her be, I need to focus on school at this point. 

Just a warning for those looking to end NC.

I am so sorry it set you back, but at least now you know where she stands and you understand fully that NC is truly the best option you have to move forward and find someone else who values you. I went through this with Tim, when his dad first died and he didn't respond to my messages for a week. Then for weeks after he said he didn't want to break up, he still didn't respond and the empty feeling of rejection and abandonment set in. I think that's why I ended up taking him back, because he created a void and then simultaneously claimed he was going to fill it, and all he did was make the void deeper, and I allowed it by resuming our relationship against my better judgement.

You mentioned in a previous post that you don't/didn't think you'll find anyone else, and that's why you felt so attached and desperate for her attention. I call that the "scarcity mindset," and a lot of people operate from that due to deep insecurity, I used to, too. It's the belief that you're not good enough, no one finds you attractive, that you're not desirable or lovable, so you'll chase after and settle for the first person that gives you the attention you crave, even if they've expressed little or no interest or treat you poorly. I won't say you'll grow out of it, because some never do, but it is something you need to actively be aware of and working on over time. Mental and emotional health are not static, they need to be regularly assessed and worked on like a car.

Leave her be, go back to your life and continue to be who you are, being single or alone isn't a curse, but a gift. Use this time to work on becoming better and happier. The best revenge after all, is being fulfilled, happy and whole.

--Rae

[BaxterBurg]

Hey Rae, I appreciate the response. I was feeling pretty depresed again, but this helped me a lot.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

at least now you know where she stands

Unless I'm just not taking the hint, I feel like I don't really. I guess I know its a"not right now" but it doesn't help me much. I don't understand why she is incapable of just telling me its over for good, and to just leave her alone or something. I feel like that would be a lot simpler on her end, rather then to just keep saying "im uncomfortable with this right now" Most people just say she's a coward, or shes keeping me as an option. For my own sanity, I might just give her the benfit of the doubt and keep moving forward as best I can.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

I went through this with Tim, when his dad first died and he didn't respond to my messages for a week. Then for weeks after he said he didn't want to break up, he still didn't respond and the empty feeling of rejection and abandonment set in. I think that's why I ended up taking him back, because he created a void and then simultaneously claimed he was going to fill it, and all he did was make the void deeper, and I allowed it by resuming our relationship against my better judgement

Our stories do seem a bit similiar. I'll keep what you have said in mind, because I do feel a bad sense of abandonment, and might do something I shouldn't--though I don't think shes coming back anyway, unlike Tim.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

You mentioned in a previous post that you don't/didn't think you'll find anyone else, and that's why you felt so attached and desperate for her attention. I call that the "scarcity mindset," and a lot of people operate from that due to deep insecurity, I used to, too. It's the belief that you're not good enough, no one finds you attractive, that you're not desirable or lovable, so you'll chase after and settle for the first person that gives you the attention you crave, even if they've expressed little or no interest or treat you poorly. I won't say you'll grow out of it, because some never do, but it is something you need to actively be aware of and working on over time. Mental and emotional health are not static, they need to be regularly assessed and worked on like a car.

I wouldn't say it comes from insecurity as much. I've gotten attention form girls, I'm confident in my appearence and personality, I don't think thats so much a problem. it's more so that I keep placing her on a pedastel. Its just hard for me to find people in general with similiar values, so I feel like im willing to put myself through abuse just to retain someone like that. She was also just objectivly very attractive, so thats more so where some insecurity applies. I also just hate playing "the game" of dating, it feels like a waste of time--having her meant I didn't have to play it. But you're right, it is the scarcity that is causing me physical pain.

I'll keep this in mind though because I'm sure I do have some underlying insecurity. Its probably a mix of things.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

Leave her be, go back to your life and continue to be who you are, being single or alone isn't a curse, but a gift. Use this time to work on becoming better and happier. The best revenge after all, is being fulfilled, happy and whole.

For sure. I have no problem being alone, I actually wasn't really looking, she just kind of showed up and we were friends. It was obvious to everyone else we had feelings for eachother; she broke up with her bf, so we just started. Thats why its odd to me that this ended so soon, unless she was really just using me for comfort to get over her ex/crisis.

I enjoy making my own schedule and having no social obligation to anyone. It was more about having a family for me, it kind of fueled eveything I did; I just assumed me and her would work out. But I think she was pretending to be someone for me, not sure.

Thanks again for the reposne Rae, appreciate it.

[kayc]

 

22 hours ago, Rae1991 said:

I call that the "scarcity mindset," and a lot of people operate from that due to deep insecurity, I used to, too. It's the belief that you're not good enough, no one finds you attractive, that you're not desirable or lovable, so you'll chase after and settle for the first person that gives you the attention you crave, even if they've expressed little or no interest or treat you poorly.

I used to settle and do my best to make a square peg fit into a round hole, but no more.  I haven't even dated for 10 1/2 years, and that's okay by me.  I know my criteria and only know one person who fit it but as of yet he hasn't show interest in me that way, so that's okay too, at least I have a great friendship with him.  He doesn't live here so it's hard to explore what "could be."  It's been nearly 16 years since my husband died, and I've lived alone except for my son's breaks in college, which was years ago.  I've gotten used to being on my own, which has been good for me.  You are right to point people to working on themselves, exploring their interests, etc.  We do NOT "need" to have a relationship to be fulfilled!  We are people of value and it's so essential to recognize that and be our own best friend.  Years ago I made a card for a friend who was going through a divorce, it listed all the good things about being alone, it's always good to practice gratitude no matter our circumstances.

Think of it like this:  When a relationship doesn't work out when you thought it would, it releases you to be free and open for THE ONE you are meant to find and be with!  That's a win.

 

[BaxterBurg]

10 hours ago, kayc said:

used to settle and do my best to make a square peg fit into a round hole, but no more.  I haven't even dated for 10 1/2 years, and that's okay by me

my mom is more or less the same. After my dad died she said there was no point in dating again. Shes been alone for 11 years, but I have been here still. However, she claims to hve never loved anyone before.

Theres nothing wrong with being alone, its honestly less stressful; but I'm just very concerned about having a family, its something I really want. If I was like my mom or you, I probably wouldn't care too much. As long as I had my kids, I would be content. I feel like I'm running out of time or something, so I feel some urgency. I think I loved her more for what she could have givn me, rather than who she was. Maybe i will gain perspective when i really do meet someone who captivates me.

But in the meantime this anxiety is causing me lots of pain, and I don't know what to do about it. I can't get over the fear of not finding someone with the same values, its killing me everyday. 

[kayc]

15 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

I think I loved her more for what she could have givn me, rather than who she was.

This is very telling.  Try not to put such time constraints on yourself, men's clocks don't run out like women's so why are you feeling this so strongly?  My daughter is 38 and her husband filed divorce, she miscarried a few years ago and that when he left her (who does that!)...now HER "clock" is running out!  She said she'd take kids any way she could get them, step, adopt, birth, but alas she never meets anyone as she's always working to make ends meet.  It would be the biggest sorrow in the world if she never got to have kids, she was born to be a mom and was always so good with them.

I get wanting kids.  I get the fear of not having them.  I went through five years of fertility treatment before I finally had mine.  (PCOS)  And I'm glad I did.  I imagine it will happen for you, you just need to find the one...

[BaxterBurg]

15 hours ago, kayc said:

This is very telling.  Try not to put such time constraints on yourself, men's clocks don't run out like women's so why are you feeling this so strongly?  My daughter is 38 and her husband filed divorce, she miscarried a few years ago and that when he left her (who does that!)...now HER "clock" is running out!  She said she'd take kids any way she could get them, step, adopt, birth, but alas she never meets anyone as she's always working to make ends meet.  It would be the biggest sorrow in the world if she never got to have kids, she was born to be a mom and was always so good with them.

I get wanting kids.  I get the fear of not having them.  I went through five years of fertility treatment before I finally had mine.  (PCOS)  And I'm glad I did.  I imagine it will happen for you, you just need to find the one...

I recall reading your story elsewhere, and I really feel for her, seriously. That story scares the hell out of me for a few reasons. The reason I feel time contraints is that I tend to think if I can't meet someone in university, and at this age in general, I'm going to miss out on the girls who are putting family first, and its only going to get so much harder. Once youleave uni, your life starts, and your options seem to dwindle to work or "going out". I also really want kids at a younger age, I don't want to be raising kids at the same age as my mom/dad. I feel like people at that age just settle because they realize they don't have time left. My mom and dad just decided after a month of dating to have a kid because they were both old it seems.

I really felt like I found the person who wanted the same, and I still would have done anything to make that relationship work. Despite her flaws, I think the postives she had outweighed the negatives, and I still think we were both compatable for the most part; although, a mutual friend said he didn't think we would work out.

 I just feel incredibly frustrated with myself. Although she was adement about not knowing why she lost feelings for me, that "there was no reason she wouldn't want to be with me", and that she " just can't handle a relationship right now", I still feel as though it was my fault because I acted weak. I wasn't the confident guy she fell in love with; I had my own problems and family issues on top of her pulling away from me + worrying about her 24-7 : I cracked under the pressure. I wish I had been stronger. During her doubting stage she mentioned how I "react" to things as one of her problems with me. This kind of veered off the orginal topic, but I feel like I had to let this off my chest because its warping my mind. This situation is just so frustrating to me for so many reasons. I hate her and love her at the same time.

I might just be being dramatic here, but its the only place I feel like I can write these things out. Maybe someone else can relate too. Ultimatly, I guess it doesn't matter, because its over, and I can't change the past. The present is what it is, and I gotta just scrape whatever positives I canfrom this experience. Though I feel like these bad memories will just make future relationships harder, and for more reasons than I want to to put on a public forum.

 

[CommanderCody]

Hey man, it's alright I know how this must be so hard for you to move on - but hey, look  at it this way, both of us, this was our first time handling a real relationship but sadly there was grief involved. You can't blame ourselves for not knowing what's the right thing to do or say in this situation because it's a new experience to us! Trust me when I say that I've blamed myself countless times in the past because how much I screwed up. If I haven't only shown my emotions, drop a tear in front of her, maybe this wouldn't happen - but that's not the case. I've replayed memories in my head a thousand times i and I realized that it's okay that things happened the way it is. I shouldn't make myself suffer for the mistakes I've done because I'm much better as a person now; I accepted those mistakes, learned from it and forgiven myself for it - that's the only way we could move forward. We can't have a happy present if we can't make peace with the past. 

[kayc]

14 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

I still feel as though it was my fault because I acted weak. I wasn't the confident guy she fell in love with; I had my own problems and family issues on top of her pulling away from me + worrying about her 24-7 : I cracked under the pressure. I wish I had been stronger.

Try not to be so hard on yourself.  Did it ever occur to you that she just isn't the one for you!  When George and I met and became friends, we eventually fell in love, the attraction was there inside and out and neither of us could picture life without the other!  That IS how it should be going into marriage!  That love carries you through the hard times. 
 

 

5 hours ago, CommanderCody said:

I shouldn't make myself suffer for the mistakes I've done because I'm much better as a person now; I accepted those mistakes, learned from it and forgiven myself for it - that's the only way we could move forward.  We can't have a happy present if we can't make peace with the past. 

This!!

[BaxterBurg]

12 hours ago, CommanderCody said:

Hey man, it's alright I know how this must be so hard for you to move on - but hey, look  at it this way, both of us, this was our first time handling a real relationship but sadly there was grief involved. You can't blame ourselves for not knowing what's the right thing to do or say in this situation because it's a new experience to us! Trust me when I say that I've blamed myself countless times in the past because how much I screwed up. If I haven't only shown my emotions, drop a tear in front of her, maybe this wouldn't happen - but that's not the case. I've replayed memories in my head a thousand times i and I realized that it's okay that things happened the way it is. I shouldn't make myself suffer for the mistakes I've done because I'm much better as a person now; I accepted those mistakes, learned from it and forgiven myself for it - that's the only way we could move forward. We can't have a happy present if we can't make peace with the past. 

Thanks Cody, this helps. I guess I shouldn't be so hard with myself since i never dealt with a grieving person or a even a relationship before. You're right. The only thing we can do is to take what positives we can from this situation and become stronger for it. And yeah, I'm just going to suffer if I can't forgive myself and live in the past. I've said all these things before, but its hard to remember and take to heart. Its easier just to beat myself up all day. Feels like a constant battle with my mind.

[BaxterBurg]

On 2/18/2021 at 10:17 AM, kayc said:

Did it ever occur to you that she just isn't the one for you!  When George and I met and became friends, we eventually fell in love, the attraction was there inside and out and neither of us could picture life without the other!  That IS how it should be going into marriage!  That love carries you through the hard times. 

I thought that this is how me and her felt, but I guess maybe it wasn't the same on her end. We both started as friends for 6 months and it was obvious to everyone in our friend group that we had feelings for each other. We got to know one another very well. I was an open book with her and shared a lot--stuff I never told anyone--and she shared things with me that she never did to anyone as well. We talked about things that her and her ex never did like having a family, getting married, values, things that interested her. We were pretty close.

It seemed to just flow when we dated, and she always seemed so impressed with me. Maybe she didn't feel the same, I don't know, but it genuinely felt like things were just going to work out between us--I had no fears. Before and after the relationship she said she never knew what a relationship should be like until she met me.

It's possible with time I'm only remembering her positives; but generally I think that if someone is a decent match than finding the one doesn't matter as much. In today's world that feels more like a pipe dream for people my age right now, and I'd probably never find them. Most people think there's greener pastures, but usually that's not the case, unless who you're dating is actually an awful person. Lots of people wait for the one, turn down decent people, and then settle for someone awful or truly not meant for them just so they can manage to have kids before its too late. Reminds me of my own parents.

I could go on forever, but it doesn't change the fact that she's gone, and I just have to find someone new anyways. She could be with her ex right now, or dating someone else, and in reality she was far more special to me than I ever was to her. Only in my next relationship will I ever gain perspective. But in my entire life, I have never met anyone I felt such a connection with, and she was practically the only girl I ever asked out--and I did it twice! I'm most likely just romantisizing the relationship though. 

I wrote WAY too much again.