DoubleJo

Same feelings. Being with my new guy is a constant reminder I'm not with my second dead husband Curt. But I went through that also with the death of my first husband and Curt was the recepient, so I'm not surprised. After all, I remarried to a really wonderful guy. I remind myself of that and also that my previous husbands were not perfect. They had their own issues. They changed for the better over time. Your feelings are natural. Go easy on yourself. Our minds are trying to sort out the changes. Its' very confusing as to whos' who and doing what. Enjoy what you can and try not to shut out life. It passes fast enough. my very best- doublejo

Yes. Conversation can seem inane, and most people just talk and talk about themselves anyway over silly trivial stuff. I don't mind them doing so as long as I don't need to really answer. And you know what? I found out they're usually not listening for a reply! I am actually relieved when someone takes all the talking time now. My mind is tired. How much thinking and you do? doublejo

I have had to put to sleep a few of my dogs from old age. It is so very sad but seeing a life of hurt can be even sadder. How great that your dog was able to stay with you for such a long time. A special friend is away. My tears are with you. Doublejo

As for me, I'd be upset if I didn't hear from you. Friends want to hear from you when you're down, because we care! (like we're never angry?) Everyone else said it all. I can only say you're the one that counts in this situation. Some people are just unbelievable. doublejo

Kayc; You are a wise woman to have waited until the clarity of the right path flowed before you. Isn't it amazing how some things just fall into their correct places? Your careing goodness will flow back to you. Such a loving heart completes its' own circle. My love, doublejo

Marshalynn; When my first husband died his family (out of state) didn't want to be involved. I did everything alone, including running the business. When my second husband died my father had died the previous year and had dementia. 2 months after Curt died my mother died. I took care of Curts death too. I have no kids, (not that guarantees anything), my friends were from the business so they disappeared totally and my neighbors were all new. Was I angry? You betcha. Especially at hospice support group. The people there talked about how they were " all alone". Then they talked about their kids, relatives, friends, etc. doing this and that. I finally pointed out that they may feel alone but they weren't alone! I had no one to call about anything at all. Even hospice,who was suppose to send a counselor forgot about me. (I guess 4 deaths wasn't important enough). I had to keep calling to find out what was going on?( not a computer glitch, they just didn't do it) I got the heavy anger out, finally talking to a hospice counseler. My anger has mellowed into a simmer. Maybe I'm lucky. I didn't have fights with people over arrangements, etc., meddlers or troublemakers. I had things done the way I wanted them to be done without interference. I had peace and quiet. Was the anger justified? Some yes, some not so yes. Justified anger quiets down, the rest fades away. Patience will come. Right now you are frustrated with your situation. Rightly so. You have every reason to feel sad and lonely. Be easy on yourself. It does change. It really does. By very best.

kayc: I understand your situation. It is VERY scary. To my mind and possibly yours, if a guy loves you, he should be concerned about protecting you at least with a will. I had to declare bankruptcy when my first husband died. I had no health ins. either. Six months before Curt died I slipped into unconsciousness. My body had become poisoned. The state government here has a program to cover the uninsured, and since I was in bankruptcy all my bills were taken care of and they put me on their plan for one year. The reason I bring this up is that perhaps your state has a plan that will cover either of you with little or no premiums. Also see who the hospital would bill if you are "poor" enough. It might give you some peace of mind. Does John have a group life ins. plan through work? It is usually cheap. A husband has an obligation just as a wife does to make sure their wishes are known and some protective arrangements are made. Considering you're a widow perhaps that would make it easier for your present husband to understand your requests. You can make legal wills from Legalzoom online. They have the same legal documents the lawyers draw up and costs 20.00 per person. You just get them notorized after filling it in. "An incredible amount of energy and investment". I couldn't say it better. Truly we get drained from dealing with this practical stuff and the idiocyncisies of our new men. We are thrust into a new open world not totally of our choice and it can take everything out of you; the feeling of being lost without a familiar anchor is hard. I so wish I could cry in my husbands' chest to "make it all better". Both my parents died during the time I lost my husbands and without kids either I can feel overwhelmed. And yet we are lucky in that we found another to create a life with. I look back and make myself remember that it wasn't easy starting off my previous lives either, that time smoothed out the rough spots(and lots of talking with my partners). I've met a lot of women who have no intention of ever getting involved with a man again. They had it with their illnesses and aggravation. Maybe one isn't the loneliest number as the song goes. Sometimes lack of fear and worry with some peace and quiet fills the bill.

Marty; What a wonderful surprise to see you pop up. It is great to know that you are there helping us and supporting us. Thank you. Doublejo

Kayc: my second husband had a liver condition from eating too much fat before I met him. When I saw how he was eating I was shocked. He'd literally put 5 pats of butter on one piece of bread, saying "I like bread with my butter." I tried to change his habit. I told him he was killing himself, his liver could still heal itself. He was just blind to what he ate. ( lot of people are blind to who and how they involve with their decisions, so protect yourself and get named on a life insurance policy, etc). Well, he only got his weight down and really changed his habits 6 months before he died when the Mayo Clinics' checkup had serious news: his vascular system was so strained it was shutting down. Curt told me before we married about his liver. My stomach sank, and I thought to myself, well, I finally found a soulmate and hes' going to die soon. I put the thought out of my head, and the two of us lived every day busy with each other and living life. John may die sooner than he should. But it is John who is robbing himself and others. If he has other family members/friends you may find it easier to let them get involved with the heavy stuff if/when the time comes. Naturally you miss George. Seeing John means you are not seeing George. In the new happiness there is this constant affront. You found John. There may be others to meet(if you would want to) if/when John dies. My second husband was different than my first and better in so many ways. I am seeing a wonderful man who would spend every day and night with me. But I am still numb inside and only can break free to feel for him periodically. It frustrates me when I think I am wasting these days. Then I realize how silly and hard I'm being on myself. Look what we all have gone through, Kayc. After my first husband died (also John) it took me quite awhile before I could hear myself laugh like I used to, but I did. Would you rather be alone? That's what I told myself with Curt. Why waste whatever years we have by choosing to be alone without him and unhappy? I consider myself lucky that we found each other and supported each other for almost 4 years. Better to look back at 4 years of fullness than 4 of emptiness. The second death can be less hard than the first- you're not as invested in time, etc., and the love can be less strong or different. Plus you've already done it. You may surprise yourself if John chooses to die early. You may not hurt near as much as you think. How you feel today is not the way you'll feel later. Too many things will happen between now and then. Every day you're growing. By the way- you ARE going for it, right now. Put what you can't do anything about out of your mind and find what you can in the rest. My love- doublejo

Kayc: We have done so many things and gone to so many places with our loved ones for so many years that we will continually be surprised with the jolts of the past that suddenly come into view. Two years isn't really long at all. All these jolts popped out from hiding for me for several years after my John died 5 1/2 years ago. I still can get weepy for him and that is with mourning my second husband who died 1 1/2 years ago. At least I know the route now I have to take to get through the griefs. Now at times I find myself being happy that I had 2 such wonderful special people who each loved me so dearly. Looking back it is surprising to see how much we accomplish ( and not necessarily by choice)even though we can feel we're inching along. But what big inches ! New memories will be made to fill in the missing ones. It is hard to let go of some of the pieces but in time, suprisingly, some diminish on their own accord, and that's alright because, after all, we are still living. We live with one foot forward, one behind while trying to stay balanced in the here and now. Time moves us forward but our hearts stand still. My best doublejo

Karenb: An interesting post because just today I felt that life opened another door for me and it felt so full and more whole.You described it so well. I went through a week of crying a lot. It just wanted to flow and flow and surprised me. More of the reality of my second husbands death hit me, which from previous experience I knew was a good thing.(first husband died 5 years ago). I can't say why it hit me, it just did. Then this morning I felt refreshed, also happier for my DH (we knew he was sick when I married him.) Today I signed a contract for Kung Fu lessons which I really enjoy. Will I get sad again? You betcha. But it will be different. And you are right, they are at peace. A peace we can only imagine. It is strange when I think about it, but here we are alive, on the "good side", while they are where they are supposed to be (and we don't want to be yet) but we are the ones feeling awful. I am very happy that you were able to connect to a larger reality. doublejo

Kayc; This is a tough one. It will hit you. But then afterwards you will know that you faced something from your past and can now put it to rest better. We are all with you on this one. Doublejo

I have made the effort to meet new people from different places, doing different activities. As a "young" widow (people think I'm in my 40's) of 56 people seem to be uncomfortable around me after the initial "we welcome you, you're not alone" speech. Its' awkward for them because since I have touched the realm of death it unnerves them, unsettles them. Having gone past them by experiencing another level of existance has separated me from their lives. As most of you know, we don't quite fit neatly into a comfortable ordinary catagory anymore. (You're supposed to be shriveled up and really old when widowed) So while I have several new helpful acquaintances that I see specifically for each type of activity, there is no interest on their part to include me after or before. But the more one is out there the more the opportunity to connect. So I keep trying new things. Over time sometimes things grow, sometimes you hook up with the right one/ones. Most people are just so involved with themselves. Their lives are already filled out, but we're starting new ones. Different worlds. Hang in there. The people are out there. Its' just the hooking up that can be difficult. Sometimes you hit it lucky and find a friend right away. My best- Doublejo

I agree. I had never posted anything on the internet before and finally got the courage to write to a different site. They actually chewed me out for not following some type of writing protocal they had established previously among themselves! Then they picked up my thread (as I hastily learned the term) on their own and chatted on it among themselves for several pages the next day. This I surely didn't need under all the circumstances. I guess they just liked their own regulars. Just getting a reply is enough to know that you're not invisible to the world and has cheered me up. Getting such good advice that gives another perspective is like icing on the cake. Thanks people. doublejo

Kayc: You have spoken with me before and each time it has been a pleasure. I am very fortunate that my new guy understands as he is widowed too. I couldn't look back someday and see days that were wasted with nothings when there was made available to me opportunities. But the inability to really enjoy these opportunities is just so frustrating. I have had some times were I was laughing and hearing the sound of it was odd. something remembered. I was always a rather serious person and now I am more so. As you well know the entire way of looking at living changes. We have another view of life, unlike when we were younger and death unknown. Parts of you become deadened and you're always a little on "alert". I am stubborn, though. I have been given this time to continue living and I will do so. Lifes' possibilites are always exciting and hopeful. Its' just the tiredness of it all. You get a little weary from all the aftermath and the death usually isn't the only problem we're dealing with. Not being with your new loved one must be hard, but perhaps at this time it can help you ease into a transistion, rather than all or none. Besides, if you are both committed your hearts are always touching which keeps you closer than you may think. I wish you the best. And thank you for replying.

After my first husband of 27 years died, I met someone a year later ( widower)and we lived together for 31/2 years. One month after we married he died. It has been 1 1/4 years since he died. He remodeled the entire inside of my home. I could look at all that he did and strangely it didn't effect me. I spent most of this time wondering if he was ever really here. Now suddenly I realize he is really really dead and not here. Now I'm able to see the work he did here for me in a new light. Now it hurts to see it all. It is too much and I have to shut out some of it. I don't think my mind could deal with all the reality and now some more of it is opening up to me. I was doing pretty well for quite awhile. Now I am grieving all over again on another level. This stuff takes so long to go through, and it's never quite finished. There are always remembered tears for someone. I am crying and crying all over again and I surprise myself. I made new associations, tried to connect to new groups, build a new life and it worked pretty well. I even met a new man who loves me. I haven't been able this time to let go and feel for him as I did for Curt after my first husband died. That has bothered me. Now I know why. I'm only half way done with my grieving. I have this new deepness coming from inside me of grief. I had been suspicious about my lack of feeling when I saw his work in the house. I thought I wasn't nearly done with touching all of Curt that I needed to do and by golly, I was correct. Time does help. But what you carry with you through this ever moving time are so many shades of gray that pop out and needs to be gone through. Such is the mystery of death to the living. Doublejo

Kayc: Thanks for your words of encouragement. They are certainly needed right now. My new friend also has genetic health problems. Amazing isn't it? We all need a respite from this health junk and we still have to hear it, see it or deal with it all the time. Is a big joke being played on us that we find another but they also have "attachments"? Oh well- looks like we are caught in a numbers game with the ages and a health game in life. The frustration turns to anger which turns to tears. You are right- focus on what is good. When I checked my roses and I'd feel sad some died, Curt said to me "look at the good roses, don't look at the bad". I am so sorry your special one left so soon. 51 is such a sad number to hear. Doublejo

Kellymarie: Isn't it an odd feeling? Like some people you know are floating around somewhere but you just keep missing seeing them. We are in a time warp of some sort with extra dimensions. Things that someone else would be happy at that we experience are just reminders that something is not quite right. It is all bittersweet. Please take this lesson from my experiences: Many people can be loved at the same time, all in their own unique way for the special people they are. You can love your precious Josh all your life but that shouldn't stop you from also loving another wonderful man for who he will be too. Take what good you can get and are given. You don't have to discard one person to make room to love another, but you will need to rid your heart of some of the pain so it can recognize and feel the new love that will be before you. I have been oblivious to the fact of my birthday other than in this odd context with my men. Should I be happy its' my birthday? Not this year. You shouldn't expect yourself to be happy right now, but you are still special too. Its' okay to feel hurt- its' what lets us know we're human. 28 will be the end of something and a new beginning for you at the same time. Thank you for your quick reply- it helps. Happy birthday- doublejo

I had a once in a lifetime tri-fecta. Not a good one tho. March 9 I turned 57. My first husband died at 57 10 days before his 58th birthday. My second husband died last year at 6 weeks before his 57th birthday. He told me he just knew he was going to die like John before he was 58. He did. Well, its' not the issue that I feel closer to my death because of the age , its' something else. This year all three of us converged together. The gathering point was the age of 57. Not physically, or visibly. Just the thought that Curt is really truly dead never having made it to 57. (His birthday is March 29- this will really get to me this month). John was not looking forward to getting so close to 60. Well, he sure didn't. Now I'm older than Curt, and I'm only 57. That's not old. So the tragedy of his death is really large and so odd that I'm now past him. John died Dec. 2001, but our anniversary is March 21. I've come to terms with that pretty much. But gee-2 men have made my heart broken with grief and I only have one heart to deal with it. I felt so overwelmed this weekend. I am glad I was able to cry so heavily and long. It cleanses your soul. But still the whole freakiness of the situation boggles the mind. Next month will be the 1st ann. of my mothers' death. I hope that this reality of aloneness doesn't sweep me off my feet too much.(my dad died 1 1/2 years ago) I have no kids, so like alot of you I'm alone too. Thanks for listening. I have a friend who tells me he's there for me if I need to talk, to call him night or day. (also a widowerer) But he has hopes for us to be more than friends and I don't think he really wants to hear about the past men . He wants to be in my life NOW. That's a good thing, but of cause I'v got alot to deal with right now. I was able to get comfort with my second husband, he was so sweet and gentle and had no hangups. He was actually confident and secure. He was always him- no mood changes. He gave me some peace. Now he's gone. I was lucky to have had him- he was ill when we met. I was there to help him die, he was there to help me live. That was another convergence- a crossing of the paths that had to be set up by Someone/Thing. So- I'm off to snuggle with my dogs, speak to my step-cockatiels and cry again. I still have more grief for Curt that I haven't finished with. I know I'm not empty yet. Best to you all- Doublejo.

Thank you for your helpful advice and information. Today is better. It is such a shame that there are so many of us with multiple sorrows to deal with. You have all made me feel better- Doublejo

Thank you both for your prompt replies. Seeing that someone actually listened to me has given me some reassurance and support to keep pushing. As you well know, if there are friends they won't be for long if they had to actually listen when they ask how your are. They are too busy complaining about their husbands and kids. They have no real interest. Mine use me as their sounding board for their complaints. I let them talk. The advice you gave is a help. I am going to try harder to keep my mind still, so I can then concentrate on one tragedy at a time. You're right- my mind is in a whirl, rushing everywhere, repeating everything and getting nowhere. That's a good reason for being exhausted. I would like the"luxury" of having one at a time to deal with. But it's not gonna happen and will continue until April is over. There are birthdays and another wedding ann. to deal with in March. I guess I could see it all as having things to do, unfortunaly they're not the right ones. Doublejo

This month is a killer. January 13 would have been our first anniversary but Curt died one month after our wedding. Jan. 14 I get a notice in the mail that it's been the one year ann. of my dads' death. February 12 coming up is the ann. of Curts death. 2 months after that(in April) my mom died. I am swamped. I cannot start to think about one to deal with it without another one intruding into my thoughts. I cannot concentrate enough to work my way through the main ones (my Husbands's without this other stuff piling in. 5 Years ago Dec. 04 my first husdband died after 27 years of marriage. I 'm only 57. I feel so frustrated right now, so crowded in that I would want to scream but I am too tired and that would take thought which I do not have. I have been getting apprehensive lately, especially at night which I hadn't been. Too much, too much. Doublejo

Kayc; You are right. I am trying too hard to feel things I think I OUGHT to feel, but am not yet. I told him he is ahead of me in grieving. I still have some more to do. He is trying to respect that. He is ready to move on further than I am. I want to get to know him more, first. I know he is also vulnerable. I see that I am still unsure of things, feeling too lost still. I need to let myself slow down. Isn't it amazing how hard we are on ourselves? Perhaps I'm making it harder than it needs to be. Thank you for another perspective. Doublejo Patti: Thanks for your response. You are right about men. My Last husband had a daughter. He was less sexual. This fellow has a son. The sensitvity towards womens' views are different. Thanks for the invite. I am not able to drive at this time. Otherwise I would come. If someone is in my area that I could shareride with, I would gladly pay for gas. (East Valley).

When I lost my first husband after 27 years, I wanted and needed to be held and hugs big time. Now, 5 years after his death and 8 months after the death of my second husband( we lived together for 3 1/2 years), a very nice widower is totally interested in me. It was a relief when my first husband died, not so this time. My new friends' wife died 1 year ago. He is smitten with me. At times I can really enjoy his company. At others my mind is working , comparing, anaylizing. This time I have an aversion to being touched. I broke out in a big cry when we left a restaurant. I did something I wanted to do real badly; cry on his chest as he held me. My previous husband held me as I cried over my first one. He went slower with me as I got to know him. This gentleman is physically moving quicker. I was glad I snuggled in his chest, yet I am afraid this time of this closeness. I don't feel guilty, or anything like that. Any experiences you can share? thoughts? Doublejo

My warmest congrats on your special joy waiting for you. Yes, all the things that would be only happy now have a duality. Each thing is a reminder either that a special person is not there for the sharing, or the reason we are doing something positve is because they are gone. Someone wrote once that when they pay off their mortgage it will not be "the happy day" because of the reason they will be able to- life insurance money. It is very frustrating, happy and sad at the same time. It makes me feel good to read from you positive strong people. Even though we feel overwhelmed at times, we don't give in or up. After all, if we are lucky enough to be blessed with living on, we should grab what good is out there from it.