DoubleJo

Maylissa; Why feel miserable and want to hurt yourself because of OTHER people? They wouldn't get it anyway. They are oblivious to how you and probably other people are really feeling about anything. It won't effect THEM, only you. They are not worth it. You are worth feeling happier and more satisfied. So I'll tell you what I have done. I have become more realistic and harder. I still wish people were different, but I'll be damned if I'll let other people dictate how I'll feel. Since they are all on the periphery of my life anyway, I will enjoy whatever decent company they bring to break up my day, but I still keep my eyes open for new receptive people because maybe that one is there somewhere. You are too valuable to let others bring you down when they probably don't even know they're doing it. They don't want to deal with how you feel because they can barely deal with themselves. (everyones 'so "stressed" nowadays over petty things). BY the way: I had written a little while ago about the 2 15 year old tiels I have of my late husbands; the one dying. Well, Fred was calling and calling. I decided to get him a new mate, but it didn't have to be sociable to people, just for Freds' company. Well, I went looking for a girlfriend for Fred but I found a sweetheart for myself, a 4 month old sweet female who adores me. I call her mushroom because she popped up overnight like a mushroom after too much rain and surprised me. You never know what happens another day. Fred is thrilled he has a new girlfriend and preens and struts and sings all his sounds to her. Take care- Doublejo

Starkiss: Very difficult. Everyones' pain must be gigantic. Such a hard thing to deal with. What can one say? It is difficult to know where everyone is at all times. Please accept my tears. Doublejo

Shell; Please know that I am thinking of you. Doublejo

Maylissa: Your time is the time you have with your understanding husband. Other people expect to get attention from their own and others. I resolved myself to having only my husbands' sincere love and attention years ago (and of course from my special pets)and realized that was pretty darn special, so many married people not close at all, talking past each other. It can be terribly frustrating if that is all you are looking for. When I realized it just wasn't there, even at this stage of life, I was no longer frustrated. It is silly, a waste of human resources and doesn't speak well for the majority of people we meet, but their sole purpose is to protect their little world from outside invasions that might change their feelings of security even a little bit. They just don't see the world as one from which to take and embrace, but rather to protect from and discard. That's what separates the masses from the individual. Its' easy to be a mass. I realize I talked about myself when I wrote my reply, which is what you're probably sick of. I understand that, but I had no other way to let you know this is happening to other people too. You do need to talk about the ones who are hearting your heart. And over and over to help heal it. I just want you to know that I didn't use you to sound off about my feelings. I came to terms with people's abilities quite a while ago. You still have so much around you it bothers me to hear you feel so hurt. People don't realize they are hurting you. They aren't thinking much about you at all, unfortuneatly. I experience phone calls like your recent one. They start off with How are you? but they want to talk about themselves. I guess its' a compliment they need you. Take care- Doublejo

Maylissa: Actually its' not just animals people don't want to talk about, it has to involve themselves in some way or they are bored and tune out. I joined a house of worship last year and was received so warmly and kindly, especially when they learned I lost both parents and 2 husbands. It felt so wonderful because I had so little connections left. I made the effort to show up at events and services. The people who told me they would be my new family ignored me at all of them. Not out of malice. They just didn't remember anything they said to me or who I even was. The woman who volunteered to drive me to meetings (I live only 2 miles away) was friendly and very receptive. We seemed to have a lot in common, and we "hit it off." One night she tells me she couldn't go with me the next time as she was making dinner for perspective new members at her home. Hey? What was I ? I sure got left out of that one. Then at the last meeting for the season she says, "see you next fall." Hey? Although I met and chatted with many people no one ever called me to see how I was. I had sent holiday cards, smiled, volunteered to help. But even though they knew I had lost my husband that year, I heard from no one. Do people make promises and not follow through? They sure do. They have their "clique" of friends and family and have very strict guidelines who is allowed to become a part of their circle. They seem to have to have the same number of kids, the same ages, the same exact activites and routines. It doesn't matter if you never talk about yourself, because they associate with you for the moment and there is no follow through. I am very lucky. I met my new neighbor who is very similiar to me in thought and practice. We follow thru for each other. We mean what we say. Most people mean what they say AT THE TIME they say it but it evaporates away as they leave. I have learned to listen and let people talk, because they do interrupt and they do not listen. About much of anything! They are preoccupied with themselves, period. I make friends easily. I am respected and very easy going. But most people are so caught up in the daily little stresses and running around in their lives from here to there that they are floating from moment to moment. So, Maylissa, I understand what you are saying. Most people are superficial. Depending upon the people you get to meet, they are always really nice at first because they have nothing to lose. But to actually commit or follow through? Very few do. Treasure the ones you find. If you can accept the fact that people are people, it doesn't bother you as much. I've traveled the world and had strangers go out of their way to assist me. Do wonderful things. The kindness of strangers is real. But in a daily living situation people are so invested in what they already have they don't think about making room for anything not already connected by some thread to their lives. Its' THEM. They don't have a broader picture than their very busy already filled in sphere. Make yourself happy. Why let them spoil your times? There are sincere people out there but they can be hard to connect with. I approach people with a sense of realistic optimisum. Maybe they will surprise me. I take what they can give, because alot of people cannot give very much. But you never know when it clicks with someone. It could be tomorrow. It's just the luck of the people in your area you meet. Take care- some people are like your special little ones, its' finding them that can be hard. Doublejo

Shelley: We are so hard on ourselves. We expect to do so much . You can be proud of all your doing. But hey- you're smart and strong. It was just hiding there for awhile under the weight you were carrying. SUPER! Doublejo

It feels frustrating when you think you've finally got yourself settled only to see all the work and time put into it disappear. Then again it goes to show that the saying, "the only thing that doesn't change is change". is pretty true, so I personally choose to see it as an opportunity to choose what I need /want and try to enjoy the journey of getting it. I look at it as an adventure. Everything seems bleak and worthless only if you take everything very very seriously. Lifes' problems can seem also stupid, dumb, and funny if you step back and look at things from a distance. We can get so bogged down looking at all the trees not only can't we see the forest, but we wind up stepping on the roots and killing some in the process. Pull out if you can. Step back. There is a very busy world still going on around you and you can put yourself anywhere in that world . You can make the world bigger than your grief. Take care- Double.

Tenderheart: Truly beautiful. Being only human I cried too. Take care. Doublejo

Erica: When my first husband died it was a relief after all the horrible tension. He had epilepsy and was in very dangerous situations with me in his last year. I needed to find myself again and see others. I cried over him though for years. I still do at times. After all we closely shared 27 years together. He still holds a special place in my soul and I feel his essence joined with me. However Curt was my soulmate. We were so much alike we even had the same food allergies!. Because of Curt I could relax and laugh. If I had closed myself off I would never had found Curt. Even though I am seeing a gentleman again, I do not feel the same as when John died. I am in no hurry to marry again. But without his company I could become sad, lonely, and missing out on lifes' surprises. I enjoy him. Each situation is so unique as described by KayC . I wanted to remarry after John, now I don't but I certainly want a relationship with a man. This is a complement to my men. Had the relationships been sour I would be like many of the divorced: bitter and afraid of entanglements. My friend said I make him feel complete. That is a wonderful complement to hear. You have much grief and anguish to deal with right now. Thoughts fly in and out. The pain and hurt has to be felt to be relieved. Each time you feel it you open a little window for it to fly away. Eventually the worst is gone. Broken hearts sometimes get stronger when they have scar tissue. Take care- Doublejo

Erica & Derek: I was married for 27 1/2 years when I was widowed 5 years ago. I met another man and married him. Curt was wonderful in his way. (he died last year). John was dear to me in his way. I am seeing a new man who is in love with me. He is a great guy. A parent often has more than one child. They have 2 parents. They have grandparents. They have brothers and sisters. Do you pick one from all of them to love? Is our love so limited and confined that we can love only one person at a time and disregard all the rest?I don't think so. There are many people in this world. We meet but a few. If we are lucky enough to meet good people should we discard them so we can dream about one person? The love you feel and still have for someone doesn't disappear. The bonds that were sown do not go away. The amazing thing about love is that it is not rationed out. It is not meager. Whether one wants to love again is a personal decision. Love, however is boundless. It may feel different with a different person because, surprise! they are different. It doesn't negate what came before. Does it feel weird? yes. My boyfriend was married for 31 years when his wife died last year. He feels like he is a kid again dating and laughs that he doesn't know what to say or how to act. He is happy. Does he not cry at times for his wife when a song comes on? You betcha. Do I? Sure. That is when we realize they are sweet tears of warmth and soft memories. I feel so blessed to have had them all. When you think, What am I doing? Its' because we are unsure of ourselves. We remember every warning that may have been given somewhere. But you know, being with someone doesn't mean you're committing to anything. It means you're enjoying someones' company. One day you'll argue. Next day you won't. The relationship ( if there will be one) will take its' course. You will probably pull back a number of times. My warning from my experience is this: If you feel awkward, don't dismiss the person outright from your life. You may regret it later, because it is your situation bothering you, not something they are doing. You can give yourself more space, break up the amount of time you're seeing them. Later you'll feel differently and may miss their company. That tells you something. You may feel glad the're not there. That tells you something too. Enjoy what you can. We are all human and since we are still alive we cannot deny what humans need- other humans. My best Doublejo

Stallyn: You found the stage your in. Your mind is whirling with thoughts all over the place. That happened to most of us. It is very hard to make sense of all the strangeness, our place now and the tomorrows that we thought were settled. Because everything is unsettled now, your mind is looking for something to settle upon. My advice can only be this: Put aside what you do not have to think about. Unclutter your mind from as much as you can. Put aside a time when you can think about only certain things, then let them go for awhile. You don't have to have answers to everything all at once. Time will bring you answers as you get more information naturally. Don't fight with yourself. In other words. "go with the flow." Unclog yourself of unneeded thoughts before you get yourself into the stressful habit of overthinking. The signs you seek will be that one day something just becomes less important, something doesn't need to be saved, something just doesn't bother you anymore. You won't even notice these things until one day you realize your feelings have changed. They will be so natural that they will float into your daily being. If you have to push for answers than you're trying to force something to happen. Something natural by its' definition cannot be forced. Try to just accept that you have a lot of pain and that is natural. Let go of the depression. Why keep it?. You found out you can be happier. Grief means you are alive and have experienced a special thing. It means you can feel life with its' ups and downs. You were living a life before you met your wife. YOU made it better by reaching out and finding her. YOU can make it better again. Why not? What will stop you? No one is holding a fence preventing you from achieving what you need and want. Why do think drastic changes need to be made? Wouldn't you rather have the right changes made instead? Slow down. There is no race to be won. When you race against yourself how can you determine the winner? You'll do it. You'll find yourself. Doublejo

You go girl ! Doublejo

Stallyn: Grief is different from depression. With depression you don't care. With grief you care oh so much. Depression can be an empty black hole. Grief is a hole that wants to be filled. Maybe it is better to know that you can feel, rather than the horrible emptiness of hopelessness. Seeing how your hopes came true before is proof that happiness can be found, even with all their natural faults. You know what happiness feels like and that is something you can make your goal to have again because now you know it is out there. Personally I think finding a relationship online that lasted that long is quite an achievment. Many people keep searching and find friends and/or strange people. You may be luckier/more blessed than you think. You may meet someone who is more compatible or that you care for in her special way. Don't expect too much from yourself. It may be preventing you from seeing all the changes you have already made. They may seem like small changes to you, but hey! they ARE changes. Each change contributes to another and another. With the choice of dreading the coming day, try instead to welcome it as another opportunity. Doublejo

Stallyn: You were meant to be with your wife and now you are meant for many more things. As you know, what you feel at one moment is not what you can feel the next. I was told when I was younger that if you kill yourself, it's over, totally. If you stay alive you have the chance to see things change. You know what? Its' true. There is a good chance you will feel better much later and you will think, "boy, I might not be here right now. Look at what I would be missing." Didn't you feel better when you met your wife? I met another wonderful man, great in his own way, and had 4 wonderful years with him. Who knows what the future brings? I think what you really want is for the pain to stop. The unknown is scary. When we think ahead we scare ourselves with what ifs?. Today is the tomorrow you were scared of. You can be anguished and depressed. Why shouldn't you be? You have this terrible thing to come to terms with. Its' okay to feel crappy. It doesn't have to lead to anything more than that. Let yourself be. This is a confusing time. Try to remember that when you feel overwhelmed. Hang in there. Doublejo

Stallyn; Truly people can be foolish with what they say. The cannot conceive of the huge grief you have. A close personal death, especially with one you've partnered with is a terribly strange feeling to deal with. I think a lot of people just are so involved with their own worlds and their little stresses that they dismiss it like it was an inconvenience to be gotten over. Sometimes its' better to stay away from these people for awhile, they rouse up anger to add to everything else. It takes a long time to walk through all the chaos in your life, all the million little things that changed and need to be made sense of. I lost 2 husbands, 2 inlaws and both parents in the space of 4 years. I tell you this because the pain of intense grief can change if you slowly and carefully walk through it. It can change to an intense sadness, then a dull ache. Later a smile can cross your lips as you think of her. How wonderful you had her in your life ! It is very hard and only you know how much of it all you can take at a time. There is an old European saying: If you listen to the people you will hunt with a fishing rod and shoot the fish. You know what you're dealing with. You need to be alone at times to absorb what has happened. Your place in your world has changed. You may find you need different people in that world, but for now you need to find yourself. And you will. Six months is a very short time when compared to the intensity and time you had with your precious one. I wish you the best. Doublejo

I get those feelings too, Walter/Erica. It's like if we don't feel sad we will lose contact with our loved one. Our last feelings was the terrible sadness when they died, so we tie ourselves to that. We have a hard time associating happy things with them, even though we all had happy times with them too. Everyday we are alive and healthy is a wonderful blessing. I tell myself it would be almost a sin to not try to appreciate it and enjoy it. Keep a-goin. This is a difficult time but time does move forward. Take care- Doublejo

Derek: no offense is taken. Isn't it interesting the many meanings something can have for different people? The world is a very big place. We are all used to our own. I am glad you let me know there was something you didn't understand. Doublejo

Derek: Regarding your question; In common discussion I am not calling on G-d in prayer, therefore out of respect I do not use His name. My best, Doublejo

If a person only worships G-d because they expect favors to be given then the relationship exists only to please ones' self. It is precisely at times of great stress and hardship that one turns to G-d for the strength and hopefully some understanding . If your loved one couldn't give you everything you wanted, or didn't promise great big presents, would you have still loved him/her? I think so. To love or be in awe of a supreme power for the purpose of a present( in this case to live forever), is only a partial view of the grand depth of G-ds domain, or powers, if you will. To feel the presence of our loved one/s is possible because of the uniqueness of a partially known or felt world of being. Something is there. Due to our own personal states of being we can tap into this existence in our different ways. I once read this, and it explained things in an interesting way: In nature, seeds grow. The act of creation occurs. They blow in the wind to germinate. By chance, because of too much wind , or some other cause, some don't land where they can germinate. Some get eaten on the way by a bird. Because life contains free will and fairness ( this is the hard part to accept), all things are suseptible to these seeds of illness, doom, harship, and also, germinating. Life does not always discriminate. Eventually every person will face a death, a terrible illness, a panic over the loss of a needed job. When these things happen and how may be partially up to factors caused by other people and of cause, by design in a very very big scheme of things. What happens today will effect other people and things tomorrow. How we choose to direct that effect is the one thing totally in our power. How we deal with this may be how we are judged. But it is also how we make the next step in our lives livable. Because we cannot always see the reason or answer for something doesn't mean there isn't one. It may be bigger or further along in the future than we can see. PLease accept these thoughts as a way to think about things that may place a little rest in your mind and heart. Death comes to all. It is very hard when we see it come to someone we loved. They no longer feel this pain, but we do as the survivor. My best- Doublejo

Your problems with heaven is that you've turned it into a modified life on earth. Perhaps if you can conceive that some things are so unique, so great, so much bigger than ourselves, such as G-d, than you can get a greater perspective on life, death, and an existance after death. Bringing the complications and details of this life into such a mystery turns G-d into a human-like being living in a human world, like Zeus or Thor. The afterlife may be one that is all peace and doesn't need the attributes you refer to. Your needs here and now may not be necessary there. The afterlife is not knowable to us because it is not of this plane. The moment of death occurs here, but does not continue here. I hope this opens up another view for you and eases your conflictions. Doublejo

I think people who feel compelled to eradicate all memory don't know how to deal with the death, can't deal with it. They have to make it disappear from their view. Some are also very self-absorbed and don't want "their" world annoyed by it. Over time there are things you look at and suddenly wonder, "why did I keep that?." But there are things we will always need to see and have. After all, for us the person physically is gone but the love, the bonding, is always there. They were never cancelled and neither were their lives. They lived. They touched people. It is just that now they are harder to reach being in a different plane. Death is "over there". We are "still here". (for now). Be careful with what you toss today. Tomorrow you may regret never being able to get something back hastily or in confusion removed forever. Things can always be put aside to be gone over later, and later can be 3 years from now or never. When is not so important. What is when? Time will move itself no matter what we do. I keep some things from my husbands in their usual places because why should I cancel them from a house that was theirs' too? Why make more holes to see? Why erase such wonderful memories? This is my house now, but their essences are absorbed into it and me. Who am I to try and take that away? Chandrasmom: The reactions of your daughters' fiance are selfish for not thinking of you and others. My heart goes to you and your family at this time Doublejo

Chandrasmom: Thank you for your reply. I am sorry you also had to experience a trail of bad things. I like to think that all these deaths coming one after the other sort of "takes care" of a lot of crap in one big lump, sparing us from this stuff dragging on for years and years, since some of these deaths could happen sooner or later. That leaves alot of time and room for more new good stuff to come our way. Regarding the quote about makeing you stronger: Actually that is not necessarily true. Things that don't kill you can also leave you broken, battered, scarred, unable to function, and just plain screwed up. If we get stronger we also can get harder with less feelings; perhaps callused is the better word. It's a nice platitude, tho. One thing seems to be surfacing thru all the info on this site and that is death is common, perhaps more than we want to acknowledge. Used to be people and animals died all the time, and the sight of it was common, but we are not used to seeing that anymore. The standard of living is so much higher now and people care more about other living creatures. The losses do stop. Our broken hearts mend with scar tissue that reduces the pain to a background ache. I suppose its' all how you look at it. I'm thankful and grateful for having had 2 wonderful men who loved me dearly. I'd hate to think of looking back someday in the future and seeing nothing there. Our time is for us to fill. Hopefully we can find enough good "stuff" to patch our holes with and maybe even outweigh the bad. My sincerest condolences to you. Your pain is great . Doublejo

Lorikelly and Maylissa: I'm glad that I turned to this site to tell what has happened. Lorikelly, your information about the birds coming from someone so knowledgable is a tremendous help. Wilma had little"spells" over the years like a little stoke, or seizure. She'd flutter and fall. I kept the night light on so if she had perhaps a panic attack or anything, she'd feel better being able to see. I'm aware that cockatiels can be prone to these. She had one last month that nearly finished her, she was so exhausted from it. They are in their own cages. Curt told me they became too territorial when together, so the cages are side by side. You gave me good information. The story of your vet is truly tragic. I cannot fathom how he goes on. As you know, we are all good at going through the motions of daily life while inside we are wandering around in a cloud. Thank you. Maylissa: You are so perceptive. Yes, love is love and each living creature is a special creation with its' own whole world of being, and yes this little bird reflects so many things. It always bothers me how people can divide lives up, place different "values" on all the different living miracles of life, or even choose which human deaths are more important from others. I have left the TV on for Fred to get more sounds for him when I'm not in the kitchen. I usually had it on for them before, so this will not seem so strange, either. I have been talking to him ( and yes, making his sounds too !) and watching him to see if he'll preen and eat. Right now he is a veritable sound explosion making all his calls. I'm aware of birds pining away, and Fred's age. This makes this tricky, not wanting to leave behind another bird after Fred's death and of cause it will be a different bird for him. I will do nothing regarding this for awhile. Looks like its' a good thing the birds taught me to speak "bird". But I don't think it quite counts as a foreign language for a resume^. Thanks for being there. Doublejo

I wrote a note under death of pets as this is technically correct, but it applies here too. I cannot bring myself to repeat it. If you wish, please read it there. Thank you. Doublejo

I met Curt at hospice. I lost my husband of 27 years, he his wife of 31, 5 years ago. When Curt moved in with me he brought a dog and 2 cockatiels, Wilma and Fred. They are inseparable. They call to each other all the time, move to the same places in their cages, both up, both down. They are 15 years old. Wilma is on the bottom of the cage right now. She is dead. I hope to G-d Fred doesn't start calling her tomorrow. Curt died one month after we married, last year. I have that twitchy finger that wants to make a phone call to someone. My mom died 2 months after Curt, my dad the year before. I have no kids, no other family. I wish I had a mother who cared that I could call like a little girl and say, Mom? guess what? Curts' bird died. But she isn't there. Curt wasn't there when my mom died, and the world is so upside down now. I am only 57 years old, and death is swirling around me like taffy, sticky to me and dragging me along with it to somewhere I do not know. I loved little Wilma. His daughter wasn't interested in "her birds" but I found their personalities so defined and they gave me a stability and filled my home with their strong love for each other and wonderful sounds and songs they brought with them. They imitated sounds from Curts' home and the crying of his late wife, Marla. So much is dead with that little bird other than itself. I feel so much the not having Curt right now. My house feels empty and scary tonight. Something is so amiss. This is so much more than Wilma, as you can see I just lost a lot of very big things to me. I put this under this heading because technically this is about a little bird. But I am dying a little death . How much can you wish for? If only she could have lived forever with her boyfriend Fred, and with me. For G-ds sake! Can not something live forever? Can not something stay the same when it is good? I feel so lost. Oh , how I wish Wilma was still here. Doublejo