Why Do People Say They'll Be There When They Won't

[Lostdaughter]

I'm tired of hearing the same things - they don't know what to say, they have their own lives, they are busy, they are uncomfortable, etc, etc.

Now some of this may be true, but I think the bottom line is they just don't want to be bothered with icky, sticky, grief, sadness, pain, loss, etc.

What really irks me (among many things) is a woman who asked me to have coffee this weekend. So I called her and said great. Well, Sat night and no return call. She lost her sister last November so I know she gets this. Oh well, I certainly don't plan to call her again.

In fact, I just keep withdrawing more and more. It seems so much safer to just be on the Internet and do projects at home or worry about the future than to even make the effort. How long will this last? I'm spending the holidays alone and that will be the danger zone for me. My therapist even went so far as to suggest an inpatient psych ward for me. Well, I have three pets and crappy insurance and don't want it held against me by future insurers.

I spent a couple of hours just laying on the sofa today and then finally did something productive. I think my last shower was last Saturday and I just don't even care. I don't see anyone anyway except for an occasional clerk at the store.

[wmjsca]

I can relate to this so much. I feel so isolated now. I was getting calls constantly the last few weeks of his life and before the funeral. Now, nothing. It's almost as though we never existed. I, also realize people have lives, but the promises to 'keep in touch' all fell by the wayside. It's almost worse than the grief itself, and definitely doesn't help.

I can relate to the shower thing, too......

[Lostdaughter]

I can relate to this so much. I feel so isolated now. I was getting calls constantly the last few weeks of his life and before the funeral. Now, nothing. It's almost as though we never existed. I, also realize people have lives, but the promises to 'keep in touch' all fell by the wayside. It's almost worse than the grief itself, and definitely doesn't help.

I can relate to the shower thing, too......

Yeah, me too. Except my problem is I am about ready to call people on this stuff. To me this is complete BS. DON'T pretend like you care when you don't! See, this is how I get myself in trouble and just alienate myself. I do not suffer this type of BS lightly. In fact, if I don't hear from this woman by TONIGHT I DO plan to write her a mail and let her know what I think. Maybe it's just my path. I don't know. But I am really sick of false friends and lies.

[Aneshka]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I lost the love of my life Oct 14. We started dating when I was 15, married as teenagers and had an incredibly happy marriage that lasted 41 years. He died without a word of complaint in my arms. My neighbour gave me two bits of advice, one day at a time and say yes to everything. That is what I have done. Illness, death and dying is difficult for most people to deal with, I have been on the other side and found myself in the position of not knowing what to say or do so try so I understand when people withdraw from me. Thankfully I have been surprised by how many people have invited me out. I have gone and found myself having fun which is exactly what my husband did through out his illness and right up until his last few days. JIll

[Ooni]

I completely understand. I lost my dad very suddenly a month ago. Our friends mean well, but sometimes they just are unable to support us in the way we need.

Maybe your friend that made plans to have coffee hasn't dealt with their own grief yet, and they want to be there for you, but find it too difficult and are ashamed.

Don't give up! Why not try joining a support group? You might be able to make some new friends and support each other in this terrible time.

I am here if you need to talk. <3

[Lostdaughter]

Thanks. I guess I just have to accept the fact that the world really doesn't want to hear negativity in any shape. "Fine" is the appropriate answer to most everything. I'm not quite sure why it's set up this way, but it is. I, OTOH, am always happy to hear "real" stuff and try my best to help.

I guess I do find that projects help a lot. I've been spending a few days on ripping up carpet, padding, tack strip and nails. It's tough work, but it does divert my attention. I volunteer at a couple places and maybe I'll see about volunteering this Thursday, or maybe I'll just paint the kitchen. I wish I knew how to do more stuff and I wish I were a guy and I'd probably live at Home Depot.

I do find relief in sleep too. I feel sorry for people who have a tough time sleeping but I have no aversion to taking pills for it as it is the only thing that really helps.

Well, I'd best start sweeping and pulling up nails.

[niamh]

it's another one of those many questions isn't it LostDaughter. I am sorry you too are experiencing this.

Now I find that I don't ask anyone to make any plans anymore because the cancelling, forgetting etc is just too much to take. I have been telling myself for the last 11 months that I can only rely on myself now 100%. So if someone wants to meet me, I let them make the call now. I find it hard to even ask someone to meet and if I do and they say no, somtimes it's happened a few times, then I just stop asking. It's hard enough to make that move without dealing with rejection on top of it.

Others will say they will be there, they say they are there anytime night or day but the reality is different, the reality is they will be there on their terms when it suits them............that's life I guess really, isn't it & it hurts a lot. I do think people mean well, their hearts are in the right place and I really don't think they realise the impact, the hurt it causes when they don't return a call, they don't stick to a planned meeting.

You mention the word negativity and I think that is something in recent years that has become such a bad thing. I'm all for posivitve thinking to a certain extent but sometimes there are situations, grief being one huge one, where being "negative" is just part of the process, it's part of trying to just understand our new situation, our new lives, the new us.

It's not necessarily a bad thing yet others can view our thoughts, our words as "negative thinking" but for me there is something to be said for just getting it out, saying the words outloud, writing them, while they may sound like "negative thoughts" to others, some are just plain actual facts. It has to be better than burying those thoughts and emotions to fester in some other way.

I too am like you, happy to hear the real stuff, I appreciate when others listen to me without judging and I am happy to listen to others too. It's easy to tell someone not to be negative, not to think like that, not to say xxx, it's harder to sit there and listen to someone you care about pour it all out as bad as it sounds......personally I think the latter is the more beneficial, for me anyways.

hugs to you LD,

Niamh

[Lostdaughter]

niamh,

I guess negativity is the wrong word. But I still think everyone wants to hear the word fine when asked how someone is doing.

I got a phone call following my dad's death (this woman and I had gone to lunch once and she gave me a card). The whole time we talked about her daughter and I was happy to do that, to get my mind off stuff. So I called her a couple weeks later and asked her if she wanted to get together for lunch and her daughter was visiting from out of town so we ended the conversation quickly, which was fine. Out of the blue, 9 days later she calls to tell me she doesn't want to get together for lunch (no reason why or when) but that we'll talk. I never called her back as it just struck me as such an odd call. Mind you, I hadn't proposed any specific day so I was just like "Ok, whatever. Cross her off my list"

Sounds to me like you have more patience with people than I do these days. I just won't deal with it. If someone blows me off one time that is it. And I let them even know it, sometimes. The woman who suggested coffee this weekend didn't even have the courtesy to cancel, so she's off my list too. Maybe I expect too much, but it just hurts too much these days to be blown off. I guess I'd rather be alone so I cannot be further disappointed or hurt.

[Lostdaughter]

Oh, and mind you, these are all people I met at a "support group." Then there was this other guy. I asked him if he would like to make some extra money helping rip up carpet. He said no, he was too busy, but that he had a friend who could use the money. He was very pushy about this friend (on disability for mental health reasons) and went on and on how I could trust him with the key to my house, etc. I wouldn't even give my neighbor the key to my house! Plus, I'd already made a deal and a set price with this handyman to do the job and couldn't afford to pay more. Plus, the guy in my group even told the guy to ask me for more money than what the guy charges! So I did offer his friend the courtesy of explaining that I'd have to go with the set price and do you think the first guy (from the "support" group) even spoke to me again even after I left him a message?

I don't know. I am just tired of disappointment.

[loulou]

I have pulled ties from everyone in my life.I try not to talk about it,even to my fiance,because the sting of people not caring or understanding is too much.I think about him all the time,and have never felt so lonely.I really dont like anyone who tried to act like they would be there for me.No one really was or is.

[Lostdaughter]

I can identify loulou. In fact, I just spoke with a person who wasn't there for me when my dad died and he had the audacity to bring up his father in law's death (and for the reason of not being able to tell this FIL how much he despised him when alive!) Of course, not one question was asked of me as to how I am handling my dad's death. Nothing was said. So I said nothing. I am tired of expecting people to at least ASK once in a blue moon, "so how are you feeling these days?" And this is a guy I've known for TEN years and who just hated his FIL. We spent more time talking about how to deal with his feelings of hatred for his dead FIL and my Dad wasn't mentioned once. I give up. Not even a "how is your Mom doing?" Yet I took the time to ask him about how his MIL is doing. I just don't get it. And it makes me feel so alone. So incredibly alone.

I just want to wall myself off from the world and SLEEP. I have dreams where I have people who care and then I wake up and realize no one does. And my own mother had no time to talk to me on the phone today, and I didn't even want to talk about anything of substance - just to talk.

Oh well, feeling pretty sad right now but there is work to be done. I have a contractor coming in a couple of hours to talk about finishing off my house with laminate so I can sell - and I have no idea where I'd even go. There is a part of me that knows I must get my affairs in order. There is a part of me that SURE HOPES I see some hope. And it's not all just about Dad even in general, rather the callousness I see in others who can't be troubled to even give a damn about how I feel in light of my loss. Ah well, we do live in a "get over it" society and just go watch "Dancing with the stars."

[Lostdaughter]

Wow, I just told this person what I told all of you here.

I had to.

And if this isn't bad enough, he had a person come to his doorstep begging for any work. BTW, my friend is under the influence of alcohol and pills. It didn't sound friendly. He told this poor person that he had no work and then hung up on me. I called him back to tell him that was not ok to hang up on me and then told him we spent more time talking about his hatred for his FIL's death and that he had never ONCE asked me about my dad's funeral.

So...where to go from here...this country is in sad shape, but I digress. The guy is question gets a gov't pension and healthcare for life. I asked him if he didn't have any bushes that needed to be trimmed and his says he does his own bushes. My God, what have we come to?

I am going to keep to myself even more than ever now.

[Lostdaughter]

Ok, so this man I've known for 10 years, who I thought of as the father I never had, just told me that no one gives an eff about me or my father and will I get that into my effing head. I just don't even know what to say here, but I did hang up on him and turned off my phone.

I mean, this is worse than being ignored or what have you. I told him I was incredibly hurt that he had not asked one question about my Dad's funeral, how my Mom was doing, or how I was doing and this is the response I got.

And I wonder at times why I just want to kill myself. I am obviously a VERY POOR judge of character. That is all. He says to me, "oh will you just get off that? No one cares." It's not about you or your father. The world does not revolve around you. And not ONE time has he EVER asked me about my Dad's funeral. Just incredible. I guess I'm speechless.

[niamh]

LostDaughter,

I'm so sorry this man said such cruel things to you, right now it is all about you and you have every right to feel how you do. I don't think you are a bad judge of character at all, I think our loss is so enormous and it's pretty impossible to make any sense at all of how certain people react, think, what they say. For anyone to say such awful things to you is inhumane, whether they have any clue about grief or not, there are some things you just do not say to another human being who is hurting. Just remember this is his problem though, not yours.

I'm not sure I have any more patience than you hun. What I have done is just kept away from people who cannot give me what I need at the moment which is just an ear and NO JUDGEMENT. Not everyone can do that unfortunately. I've spent the last 11 months telling myself that I have to just rely on myself, that nobody else can or will be there for me 100%. So I guess when I don't have any expectations anymore, then I don't have that huge disappointment and more hurt being added. When someone tells me they will call for a coffee, at this point it goes in one ear and out the other because I no longer believe it after it not happening time and time again.

I generally don't ask anyone to do anything anymore, it's the only way I can protect myself for now because it's hard to hear someone say no especially when I've reached out when I find that so so hard to do.

Is there another support group you can go to ? I've never been to one so not sure what one can expect at them. But I know there are times when I am surprised that even someone who has lost someone close, someone who has grieved can say or do certain things, it truly blows my mind. I guess it just shows how differently everyone deals with it and that different people need different kinds of support so just because someone else has lost someone close doesn't automatically mean they have any clue in the world about what someone else is going through. Thankfully on this site every just gets it.

I know for me it has "helped", maybe more like it hasn't added to the hurt, to just stay away from certain people at the moment.

Did you get to talk to your Mom yet ? I know sometimes I feel a bit hurt with something she'll do ....or not do, but then I realise that she too has this enormous pain just like me so I don't take it personally because I know she doesn't take it personally if I do something, but yeah of course sometimes it's hard, sometimes I feel so so so mad, so angry, but I try to think about it all and I think underneath it all it's what has happened to me, to my Dad is what I am most mad about. Because anytime someone does something or says something that hurts, I feel mad at them for a few mins but then it's the bigger picture, I want my Dad back, I want to be able to tell him about this, I want him to tell me it'll all be ok & yet there's nothing I can do to get that, to change any of this, absolutely no control whatsoever over it all & that is so frustrating to say the least.

Anyways, maybe I'm waffling now...... I know we are all just on the other side of a computer, scattered around the world but hope you know we care and we get some of this.

sending you an extra large hug today,

Niamh

[hello123]

Lost Daughter- All i wanna say is PLEASE PLEASE dont think ur alone, dont wanna compare stuff but just give you examples to show you that what these people are saying and doing to you its not because of u ur not doing anything wrong because lots of people have done the same to me. My best friend told me to "stop trying to make her feel sorry for my family situation because she doesnt" nobody wants to know unless you pretend to be normal and happy and its taken a while and I go through phases of anger towards them but you just have to reach a stage of acceptance where you realise that people get on with their own lives and what happens to them seems to reign above anything that happens to anyone else, its not their fault they just CANT understand so they dont they move on with their lives. Of course this doesnt excuse people being nasty and horrible but somehow to make yourself feel better you have to jus accept that thats how some people are and thats how they feel. I hope this is actually making you feel better not worse but its because reading your posts just make me feel like PHEW its not just me seeing people in a different light other people are as well. Take care and just focus on YOURSELF, obviously its nice to speak to your mum too but I get what you mean because sometimes even my mums too busy with stuff to talk and Niamhs right she has her own stuff to deal with so everyone just has to help themselves and thats what you have to do, stop expecting stuff from people and you wont be disappointed, if you feel upset try and make the most of being in your own company and if you ever feel like socialising just be aware that you can't "dampen the mood" so to speak because its horrible but thats not what people want. Cant explain it really doesnt mean you have to hate them just means you have to accept that thats ultimately how people are (this is what im trying to do anyway) hope your ok!!!

[Lostdaughter]

Niamh and hello123 and everyone who has responded.

I am still reeling from those comments last night and sent him an email (which he will not get for days) that just as ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, his substance abuse is no excuse for his cruelty. For some reason he seems to think it's ok and he can just say sorry he was under the influence. Well, no more. While he is ok when he only drinks, he turns into a monster when he adds the Soma. Yes, he has addictions but won't get any sort of help so be it. Sad thing is he probably will not remember saying it but I will never forget.

Yes, the world doesn't want us "dampening the mood," to be sure. I have so many real issues right now to deal with (no job, no friends where I live, money issues, medical issues) that I just want to break down and cry or crawl into bed. I know it's safe to "talk" in this forum and I know we've all had our moments of incredible sadness, pain, loneliness, frustration, loss, etc.

Anyway, I am not alone as long as I can come here, but there are days I just don't want to go on and today feels like one of those days. Who can be trusted is my question? I am getting the answer from you all that it is *ourselves* only. What a sad realization.

Then I look at my two baby doll Shih Tzus and my kitty and I know I can trust them. They'll always love me even if they're not much at conversation.

Well, I am going to bed and today can just take care of itself. Thanks for everyone's support and I will try my best to get those horrible words out of my head.

[elb]

I have been going through this for EIGHT YEARS--people feel awkward asking me how I am doing or wondering if it's ever hard for me (always). In a certain way it has made me more sensitive and attentive to my friends who have experienced a loss but mostly it makes me angry. I finally called one of my "friends" out on it. She accuse me of being an inattentive friend and I just snapped. I said, "It has been years and you have never once, after the funeral, said to me 'how are you feeling?' 'are you doing ok?'" We had to sever ties because I felt it was more important to cultivate my supportive friendships, but that does not mean it does not hurt. I felt like bad enough I lost my brother, now I have lost friends too...

[Lostdaughter]

Elb,

I am so sorry to hear that you've been dealing with this sort of stuff for eight years. I guess people (some people) just don't understand or want to be bothered or really believe we should just be over it pronto. I think this might be a cultural (American) or western world sort of thing. I think I'll research other cultures and report back.

Here is how it was explained to me (by same person who said cruel words but then calmed down) in a subsequent voicemail. "We care and we don't care. We've all had losses and have to deal with them ourselves. No one can really know what it feels like to another person, so don't make us feel bad or guilty for not wanting to hear about it/talk about it/ etc" Ok, this is a paraphrasing and some actual verbiage, but you get the idea.

It's a very each man for himself way of looking at life, but maybe men are just that way. I know there are a couple of men on this forum who display great sensitivity so I don't want to insult men, but maybe women just have a harder time getting over losses. I don't know.

Thanks for your perspective.

[elb]

Thank you so much-- I am so glad I joined HOTV I feel like all the things I cannot say to anyone else because they will think I am weird or crazy are really understood here. Your support means a lot to me. I finally feel less isolated in my grief.

[Lostdaughter]

Elb,

I am really glad you feel this way. You are not weird or crazy. This society is. I did a bit of preliminary research and discovered that societies with more individualistic bents (such as ours) expect us to "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" and get over it. This is also the case in Britain and Germany, where isolation is actually admired in Germany. Seems odd to me. My guess is that in the Oriental and other cultures this isn't the case. I know the Jewish faith has what is known as Shiva and I think it's a week long observance of grief - not just a one or two hour service.

One thing I did forget to mention, and I am still fuming, is that in addition to what my friend more calmly said, he also said not to expect "us" (meaning those who have to "contend" with the griever) to build a funeral pyre and pave the road for Kathy's grief (that would be me). What a moron.

I sent him another email and told him that I never want to talk to him again, that I am still astounded by his cruelty, and that he will NEVER get the chance to use language like my effing dad or my effing Dad's funeral. Of course, he used the real word, which I cannot say here. I told him he was something else I cannot say here and that no amount of wine or pills does that to a DECENT person. And I believe it.

It's tough enough to grieve and I guess maybe it's a blessing in disguise when some people are silent. Because maybe some people think the way this person does and it just brings pain to a new level, and especially considering I already deal with clinical depression and have no plans for tomorrow. I wish we could all have a big HOTV Thanksgiving get-together (for those of us who could use it or are alone), but not possible. I thought about volunteering but just am afraid I'd start to cry and I don't need that.

And now, I have to go do all this paperwork to deal with my Dad's IRA. I would much rather have my Dad still here (that is to say healthy) than have to deal with his IRA. Yes, it's nice he is leaving a bit of money to us kids, but at what cost. I just don't want to do this but my mother is on me constantly about getting this done and I can't put it off any longer. And I know sometimes I write long posts, but today is a crying day and I'm trying to put off having to leave the house. Take care.

[elb]

Lostdaughter.

Joining HOTV is the best thing I could have done for myself this time of year-- I have suffered through 7 Thanksgivings in silence (for a while I had my brother on my side but now he wants to hear none of it) but this Thanksgiving it suddenly occurred to me that there might be other people out there who really could support me. I am very non-technological so it made sound odd but it took me all this time to think 'maybe there is a place on the internet for this!?' Ha-ha of course because there are hundreds but I am glad I settled on this one because I feel like I have found kindred spirits and some of the things I have not ever been able to say for fear that even my former therapist might find odd are completely understood here. Thanks so much for your post, it made me feel like you really listened to what I said and put thought into your response (which i'm sure you did :-) ) and not I feel more able to go forward and handle this holiday...

[niamh]

Lostdaughter.

Joining HOTV is the best thing I could have done for myself this time of year-- I have suffered through 7 Thanksgivings in silence (for a while I had my brother on my side but now he wants to hear none of it) but this Thanksgiving it suddenly occurred to me that there might be other people out there who really could support me. I am very non-technological so it made sound odd but it took me all this time to think 'maybe there is a place on the internet for this!?' Ha-ha of course because there are hundreds but I am glad I settled on this one because I feel like I have found kindred spirits and some of the things I have not ever been able to say for fear that even my former therapist might find odd are completely understood here. Thanks so much for your post, it made me feel like you really listened to what I said and put thought into your response (which i'm sure you did :-) ) and not I feel more able to go forward and handle this holiday...

hi Elb,

I'm glad you found your way to this site. I think it does make a difference when other people just get it and know where you are coming from. You'll find nobody here cares about how long it's been since anyone has lost their loved one, nobody will ever get sick of you talking about it.

So welcome to our online family.

thinking of you (& EVERYONE) today, I know thanksgiving is hard (we don't have it in my country) but everyone's in my thoughts.

hugs to you

Niamh

[Lostdaughter]

Lostdaughter.

Joining HOTV is the best thing I could have done for myself this time of year-- I have suffered through 7 Thanksgivings in silence (for a while I had my brother on my side but now he wants to hear none of it) but this Thanksgiving it suddenly occurred to me that there might be other people out there who really could support me. I am very non-technological so it made sound odd but it took me all this time to think 'maybe there is a place on the internet for this!?' Ha-ha of course because there are hundreds but I am glad I settled on this one because I feel like I have found kindred spirits and some of the things I have not ever been able to say for fear that even my former therapist might find odd are completely understood here. Thanks so much for your post, it made me feel like you really listened to what I said and put thought into your response (which i'm sure you did :-) ) and not I feel more able to go forward and handle this holiday...

Thanks, Elb! My favorite quotation in life is from Krishnamurti: It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

I think of this often and realize that *I* am not the crazy one for being upset over certain things rather others are just really insensitive at times. I think all of us who post here are probably very sensitive souls and that is why we carry our loved ones in our heart and it hurts so much.

I do hope you are able to enjoy this holiday more this year and that I am too!

[grace10]

My Thanksgiving story... My so-called good friend of 20 years, one of first I called last month when mother passed on, said, yes, come on down for Thanksgiving, we'll do something. A week before, she mentioned so and so was taking her to the Black Angus for dinner, and she was squirreling about me joining them, said she would call back. We have spent many Thanksgivings together, her mother died several years ago. She never called, and I decided to be done with this drama. Hurts some, but I have to close the door on this longstanding friendship because I end up being treated like garbage. Sorry she has physical problems, but that's no excuse for never calling. I actually did more healthy things on Thanksgiving vs. sitting and listening to her poor me stories about her enabling behavior. But, yes, it feels bad, but I am done.