Same Old Story Of Grief And Failed Relationship :-(

[plum]

Yeah I wonder how Helena is doing.

I can tell just from his msgs that he is depressed.. No exclamation marks no emoticons, he doesn't even laugh at the funny silly stories I tell him bout stuff that happened.

Guess I just gotta wait til he gets himself out

Of it... I hope he does come out of it eventually..

[Pollara]

Well it is exactly the same with me. No exclamation marks, he sometimes laugh but no emoticon at all as he used to and in general it is like I am talking to a person I barely know on Facebook or something. And even if he is the one that initiates contact his answers are no more than one liners and tries to stop the conversation like he tries to get rid of me. But he is the one that starts it. And sometimes he leaves the conversation without even saying goodbye or something. At least I have you guys and tell my problem and I see that I am not the only one because most of my friends (except the psychologists) are talking ill of him

[kayc]

NC means just that, NO CONTACT! You are not in NC. It means both no contact FROM them or TO them. It means blocking them on FB, email, phone, etc. It means telling friends/relatives you don't want to hear anything from/about them. You are not in NC. And that is okay. It's up to YOU to decide if or when you want NC. I just wanted you to understand what NC really means.

It sounds like he is still trying to consider your feelings, making the effort to communicate with you, even if it's not all you would hope for. Personally, I think I'd hang in there as you are getting that much. When they cut off all contact, then for sure you have to move on and protect yourself. If you find your love changing and need to protect it, you may need to go NC, but then I'd write and tell them what I was doing and why and let them know under what circumstance you'd consider having contact again, in other words, give them a way back.

[Pollara]

Yeah practically speaking no contact is no contact. So what I did before then was "not initiating contact" which is different. In my case if I see that he stops contact at all, then I will stop too. Well ladies you have helped me so much. If I haven't found that forum I would be in total loss. Although my psychologists friends keep on telling me not to worry and this is normal and that he doesn't have any emotional energy, I think I wouldn't believe it or stick into it, if it weren't for your support. I believe that if I hadn't found that forum I would have already dumped him. Of course it might happen the other way round (he dumps me).

It is a good thing that he still contacts you Plum. But in my opinion, if you want to keep on like that, don't show that you are heartbroken and ask him why you are going out with your friends, why you send them texts etc. When my guy was here I told him: OK it is natural to go out with your friends and have a good time but not having the energy to go out with me (we were discussing about the possibility of me return for summer holidays) and he answered: it's not that I have a good time with them, I am just going out with them in order not to be at home and to distract myself. So I guess your guy is also doing the same. And you know it is very easy to pretend for 2-3 or even 5 hours that you are with others but you cannot pretend the whole time that he will spend with you. The first two days that my bf came here he was actually really nice but then he became distant again. I think that he tried to pretend that everything is ok, but when you are 24h with the other you cannot pretend.

What I do is when he asks me I am saying that I am good and I did this and that. OK I don't say that I am extra happy or something rather than I do things, because I don't want him to believe that I am just sitting and crying around over him like a faithful dog. I thought about it and I ended up that if I am say that I am super happy he might misunderstood it like I don't care or like that he is in such despair and I have a good time. So if I say that I am doing things he at least will be calm that I can survive myself and don't put emotional stress into it.

I strongly believe that if you choose not to put any pressure into him, just don't put. Otherwise just let it go for the time being because it will be painful for both.

[kayc]

I agree and it is a balancing act. If I had known what I know now maybe Jim and I wouldn't have broken up but then again maybe we would have, who knows. You guys have a lot of information I didn't know then, still, it's hard to do even if you know, very hard.

[Pollara]

Well KayC, you didn't have any option on the matter because Jim disappeared rather suddenly back there and you hadn't put any pressure to him. And the difference also is that our guys and the majority that comes here to tell his/her experience broke up with us or became distant after death. Jim was one of the few examples that disappear before death. So in my opinion maybe things were also unavoidable to happen like that.

[plum]

Pollara I think ur right about how my guy can hang with friends and stuff. He did say to me whole back that he wants to keep himself busy and that he doesn't like just sitting around.

It is true that they will find it harder to pretend to be ok around us whereas with friends they can just put on a 'face' and go on automatic pilot kind

Of mode.

He texted to say goodnite today. I didn't reply to his MSG last nite saying goodnite so I replied today wishing him a good nite.

It's nice that he is still trying as he knows those little gestures mean a lot to me. So once again I'm hopeful that if I was to stick it out that things will be ok.

Kayc I think any guy that is so cowardly as to FedEx a break up note does not even deserve a 'what if' kind of thought. And u guys were engaged!! I don't think I could ever be as forgiving u and be civil to if someone had done something like that to me. But I guess that's the thing isn't it, when u love and care about someone u actually find it within urself to forgive them even for the most 'unforgivable' things.

[plum]

Ps aww pollara I feel the same! I'm so glad I have found u guys because ur right, no one else understands like we do. And Im glad that I den listen to the other ppls advice.

(lot of my friends said I should still got I see him for his bday party even though he said he didn't want me to come)

I believe that by givin him space that's how we're currently hanging on.

So yes I shall keep on trying to not put any pressure on him. But I also think having that talk/fight the other nite made him see that I was hurting. I actually asked him if he realized that what he was doing was hurting me (putting FB updates yet not msging me for 2 days etc) and he said not really.

And I think now that he knows he is trying because deep down he does still care.

[Pollara]

of course he still cares. Otherwise he would have already broken up with the first chance. A lot of guys did that (in other posts) when they felt pressured or bored for the first time. But your guy is trying and although he doesn't know exactly what he feels he kind of understand that he might regret it sometime. In my opinion it is not that they are questioning the relationship itself as I have already been told. But since they feel emotionally empty they find it strange so they start thinking: what the hell? Did I really stopped love her or care about our relationship? Since I don't have any energy to do something. But I believe if they could just let it go now and see the future they will see that they will have energy again. I don't know if you get what I mean. But at that point they might think that they are not gonna be happy ever again, so they think that this hell is gonna keep forever.

[Pollara]

Ps aww pollara I feel the same! I'm so glad I have found u guys because ur right, no one else understands like we do. And Im glad that I den listen to the other ppls advice.

(lot of my friends said I should still got I see him for his bday party even though he said he didn't want me to come)

It's the same for me. They say that if I had decided to go to my country for summer holidays he would have made his decision. Yeah probably he would have already broke up with me since he would have seen it as a pressure to go out with me? Probably not. Who knows. But I don't know if I was in the same place as him, in the same city, one quarter away by car, if I could stay as calm as I am now. At least seemingly to him. Because unlike you Plum I haven't tell him how much his behavior is hurting me, and judging by your guy, since I am saying that I understand him and take his time, he probably don't understand that he is hurting me. he knows that this is not the right behavior but I don't think he had realized the extent of how this is affecting me.

And of course some of them (my friends) keep on saying that if I don't return on autumn (because I have seriously started thinking that if a good chance appear -in my career I mean- I would not let it go) he will break up with me due to the distance. Of course distance is a factor, but he was the one who wanted to keep on this LDR. And also, I seriously believe that this has nothing to do with me. And since we were only two months together and we hadn't been fighting even once, he cannot have any complaints about me as I don't have any about him. So I really (although I know this is over optimistic) don't believe that I should be there in order to make his decision. Otherwise if it was this (me returning back) what he was waiting for he would have tell me to go there to test it. But he told me to do what is best for me at the moment and don't think about him.

Well the problem I guess with my friends is that they cannot understand grief and depression and they think that he just bored of me so I should go there to decide. But seriously I don't believe he had given a serious thinking to our relationship, meaning that he hasn't made an analysis of the advantages disadvantages etc. he just knows that he doesn't have energy

[kayc]

Jim was LIVING in death. He was sleep deprived and his demanding mother calling out to him constantly, running him ragged. He couldn't leave, and his daughter was supposed to bring him meals and sometimes "forgot". It was a mess. He was way overloaded. To top it off, he's Aspergers, and that further complicated his situation. Yes, I did bring pressure on him, by telling him I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect that he should let me spend one hour a week at his mom's with him. I told him this could go on for years and I didn't think it reasonable for us to be able to live with no contact. MY experience had been taking care of my own MIL who had been sent home from the hospital to die (they'd given her about three weeks to live) and she lived nearly three YEARS after that...Jim's mom didn't have a cancer diagnosis or anything, she had just given up on life. But now that she had "her Jimmy" there taking care of her, I figured she could go on indefinitely! She was getting what she wanted. But lo and behold, she died within three months anyway. Jim couldn't handle my outburst and I couldn't handle his ignoring me exclusively while his ex-wife, friends and neighbors were allowed to come over and help him but I was not. It was his mother who refused to let me there, she'd never met me and not only didn't want to, she refused. I felt he should have man-upped and told his mom I, as his fiance, was going to see him once a week and that was that. He didn't have the balls to. That's okay, I don't want anyone that can't stand up to the plate better than that.

[plum]

I came across this article last night and it made me think 'see!!! u should never give up ur own dreams for a guy!!'

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/windsurfer-splits-olympic-champ-replacement-article-1.1356280

Pollara I think it is great that ur thinking about staying if a good career opportunity came up. Always put urself first and don't give up on things just for a guy.

mind u the article above I know is different cuz they were married, but see, the more u give for the guy, the more they take u for granted.

Kayc, I didn't realise that Jimmy's mother said u couldn't come for visit. I think he should've stood up for u. Yes I agree he should've manned up.

I don't think I could respect a guy like that. (I was in a similar situation with a guy, and he didn't stand up for me to his parents, and I broke up with him. That was a deal breaker to me. I am guilty of letting parents influence decision about my relationship too, but for a guy, I think I would def want him to have my back)

But I guess if they have learnt their lesson maybe they do deserve second chance...

[Pollara]

Plum, have you read the book "Why men love bitches"? Of course to bitches it doesn't mean it an a bad way rather than an independent woman. It is not only that he will take me for granted if I lose a career opportunity due to him, but he would also feel commit to something that I decided without even asking him. it is true that when I came in this country I didn't want to stay more than my contract goes. And after I started dating my guy I also had the same idea to a bigger extent. That I will finish and return to my country. Or at least that was the plan. But if a good opportunity comes, I cannot see why to let it go in order to try to be with a guy, who at the end of a day may decide to let it go. I really don't think that it is necessary for me to be there in order to make his decision. OK I can make more travelings to meet him and let him test his feelings again after so long, but I doubt he needs me there in order to decide.

[kayc]

My mom was crazy and controlling and my dad was ineffectual...I don't respect that either, Plum. I don't want to be with a weak ineffectual man, no offense to my dad. I need an emotionally healthy man who can stand up, not one that buckles and caves to his mom or others. I think a person should do what is right, not be controlled by someone else's whims.

I agree, if someone learned, they could have a second chance...but it's hard for a leopard to change his spots and if you don't see evidence of their wanting to change, if they don't admit their wrongs, don't try to learn, it would be foolish to hope for a different response from them.

I haven't read that book, but it sounds interesting. I haven't noticed men wanting independent women, but rather groveling over the "damsel in distress" types. Makes me want to puke. I am very independent and can't really be otherwise.

[Pollara]

Well it is kind of true now that you mention KayC. But I think that they in fact fell in love with independent women, but when it comes to family, they prefer the more -let's say- safe solution for them (safe on their mind of course). I have a lot of male friends and I have noticed that the girls that they had fell head over heals for where independent but in the end they ended up (if you can say marriage as ending, and I am saying as ending since I don't know how their relationships will keep on) with the typical weak and wanted to be protected girls. At least the guys that I am falling love with -except my previous ex- also liked independent women. And my guy liked this fact and he told me that he would like to be more like me in some things. Well maybe he thinks now that as an independent girl I can survive.

KayC you can give a try on this book by Sherry Argov. At least you can read it very fast and it is pleasant and easy to read. It has some right views and some wrong in my opinion but it is ok and it 's written in a humorous way. I have it in pdf if someone wants it I can send you the link by pm. Just ask me. There is also a rule that can apply to us in some ways:

He seems withdrawn, pensive and not particularly talkative.

The nice girls continually asks "what are you thinking about" and she worries that he is pulling away

The bitch is in her own thoughts and she doesn't panic something that makes him comes her way

(OK I know it is grief that we are talking about, but I remembered when I had read that book back in my 20s I have found this particular hint very funny)

As for second chances, all the times that I gave went wrong, but you never know

[plum]

So my holiday plans have fallen apart just like other plans in my life : (

My travel insurance won't cover me for majority of my trip to Bourneo as the travel advisory from the government has changed to DO not travel!

so have had to cancel (no refund for my tour : ( literally replanning my whole holiday with a week left! rather stressful!!

anywhoo, I had been very good with not initiating contact but initially when I found this out I didn't know what to do, and I obviously turned to my guy for help. He thought I shouldn't go, and I did think it would prob end up being rather silly to go on holiday without travel insurance.

anyway he opened up to me a lot about stuff that has been going on. Seems like he is now having to be like the 'head of family' despite him only being the middle child. (He was always the most mature and responsible one out of his siblings)

Touched briefly on 'us', and he said that he does care about me, and wants me to have things that make me happy. And I said that he makes me happy but once again he didnt seem convinced. Fair enough. I do have a history of changing my mind.. : (

I didn't really realize the extent of how much pressure he was under. He is now having to 'support' the family so to speak, despite the sibling being grown ups, and sounded like he was dealing with most of the paperwork and things like that.

so once again I'm hopeful for our future. I'm gona try and send him a little care package kind of thing before i go on holiday. I hate the thought of him not having anyone to look after him now while he has to look after everyone. He was the main caregiver when his dad was sick and seems like now he is holding the family together. He just can't seem to get a break...

Pollara I might try and read that book too! sounds inteeresting

[Pollara]

I am sorry Plum to hear that your holidays were ruined. I hope there is something to do and at least you had a chance to talk with your guy. Maybe you should find another place to go. I never go holidays outside my country for summer or by using travel insurances and I don't know how it's working in order to help you

Well it's kind of the same for my guy I guess although he doesn't speak to me, if I pose a problem to him, regarding me, he would probably try to find a solution. As I have already mentioned his parents were divorced and although he and his sister are in good terms with their father, he always thought himself as the man of the family. During the whole time that his mother was sick he told to her sister that he will do anything and I guess now he feels even more responsible for her, even though she sees a counselor and she has a lot of hobbies and spend her energy there. He is also doing all the paperwork, so I guess he is in the same pressure. He is overprotecting as a guy so I guess now he will care for his sister more than anyone. Well I hope everything gets well for you Plum and it seems so but you really have to be patient since you don't know when he will be ready again to devote energy to your relationship. I haven't talk with my guy one week now and this week I had a lot to do in my job so I was ok. But when weekend is coming I usually turn worse since I don't have anything to do.

[kayc]

Pollara, thanks, the book sounds interesting, it'd be good to try it. Plum, I'm sorry for your change of plans at the last minute. It's true that there can be a ton of paperwork, Jim was inundated with that for over a year after his mom died, dealing with a rental property that needed brought up to snuff, settling the estate, probate, etc. And all the family stuff, daughter arguing over stuff, yada yada.

For the records, my George loved me just as I am and respected my independence and looked up to me, he admired me and never would have wanted me any other way...so they exist, just hard to find.

I know Pollara, weekends are always tougher w/o your love...trust me, I get that.

[plum]

thanks guys, yeah trying to figure out a plan B for my holiday... It shouldn't be this stressful planning a holiday!

Hey Pollara could you send me the pdf for that book u were talking about? I'll pm u my email address. thanks!

Sorry to hear that you haven't heard from ur guy in a week. Yeah i guess we have no other option but to just be patient. I hope u hear from him soon..

and I triple that! about the weekend being hard. i've been trying to fill up my weekends as much as I can, so I won't have much time to sit around and mope. I was looking forward to my holiday to take my mind off things and to try and figure things.

Maybe you could do a little trip by urself to somewhere on the wknd?

I think I'm currently feeling better about the whole situation because I've got something else occupying my mind, like the holiday. But once I come back from it, I will find weekends depressing once again. : (

People at work were like 'geez, lots of bad things seem to happen to u (like my holiday plans falling apart last minute)' and i was like yup, I'm bit of a poop magnet! lol. funny and sad at the same time...

[kayc]

Yeah, I get told I have a cloud over my head. Yesterday morning I got an email from my boss laying me off, I was shocked! I was laid off for a year, brought back at 80%, and because he's late paying/reporting, I'd only have five months in my wage base @ 80%, they figure on 66% of that, and take out 17% for taxes. Also, if I worked one day a week, anything over the 34% of my wage base gets $1 for $1 deducted so it'd result in half my gross benefit being deducted, in the end, there's nothing to live on.

I am proud of myself, I contacted my boss and explained this to him (I know he doesn't want to lose me, he's just broke and worried, he still needs me and can't do it himself) and he said he'd find another way to cut expenses. I realize I'll probably go through it again, but hopefully not until I get a full wage base in. Anyway, it was a rude awakening to my day, esp. to get it by email. He knew I was up because I'd just emailed him the bank report!

Pollara, I'll msg. you my email address too. Thanks!

I think getting away for the weekend sounds like a great idea, maybe take a girlfriend with you or even by yourself. I've gotten rather used to being alone, it's not my preference, life shared is always richer, but I don't want to rob myself of the joy of what is just because I don't have someone in my life. I will go places by myself, fix myself a special meal, etc. and not wait to have someone to share in it because that might never happen.

[plum]

Oh no I'm so sorry to hear kayc! I hope that ur work situation gets sorted out!

Sometimes life just seems even more unfair doesnt it

I try and look at the silver lining but some days I can't find any!

[Pollara]

Oh kayC first your car, then the food poisoning and now this. I hope everything gets clear with your working condition

[kayc]

Thanks, at least he's agreed to wait a bit. Things will work out somehow or another.

[Helena_d9]

Hello everyone!

I'm so sorry for the silence but i've had a lot on my plate. Not only am i having to deal with the whole break up and moving on but my flatmate got a job in London so i've had a panic of what to do, where to live and lots of house viewings! It was just something else to deal with but i've found a gorgeous house and a huge room with 2 lovely girls who i think may end up becoming friends...quite exciting really!

So the word that can summarise my situation and my ex is complete and utter silence. I think i told you how after a couple of week of not hearing anything from him and silence, i caved and texted asking how he was and he responded in silence. It's now been a few weeks since i texted and still.....silence! What an absolute d**k!!!!! I still find it bewildering that after everything he thinks silence is ok, especially since our last real conversation on the phone was about me saying that i don't have the answers but if we care about each other and love each isn't that a good place to start....i never did get an answer!

I've been going on dates but they just aren't of any interest. Yes they aren't him but they also aren't people i want to be with anyway. I've never been a rebounder person jumping from one relationship to the next so i won't be starting now...although i am of the firm belief being single does not mean you have to be celibate

I'm quite excited about the new start, getting away from memories and my old flat and starting new ones but it's sad that i'm not moving because he's moved to the UK which is what we originally planned. I still wonder whether he'll get in touch this month about the concert in my home town or whether he'll still be going and yes i miss him but it's not entire body consuming anymore. I genuinely laugh now and i genuinely feel happy. I think a part of me still thinks he'll get in touch (just my gut feeling) and maybe he'll come crawling back but the idea of getting on with my life in the meantime isn't quite so scary anymore.

Anyhow...how is everyone. I'm so sorry to hear about your situation Pollara and i hope everything is still hopeful for you Plum? And it's lovely to see your still keeping everyone sane Kayc :-)

Hopefully hear from you all soon!

x

[Pollara]

Helena I am very happy that you feel better. I hope I will feel better myself in a while. I am not in the mood of dating to be honest but I don't have any problem on being single, but at least I liked myself when I was single and didn't care about anyone romantically. I hope I will soon get to this point again. I am trying to erase any hopes but the way he put it (exactly his words): "I am sorry that I treated you like that this whole time and I didn't do it on purpose. It was really unfair towards you and because I don't know how this thing is going to last and I don't want you to hold you waiting, that is why I believe it should be better to end it. I wasn't sure about this the whole time that we weren't talking but when I feel an apathy towards everyone and everything it is unfair towards you. What do you think about it?". although it is aν infinitesimal slightly hope, it is still a hope. Maybe when my friends return and I will have someone to talk in real and not in my distant friends from chat i will do things and feel better. Let's see.

I agree that silence from his part is not kind at all and don't send him anything else. He knows where to find you and you said what you had to say.