Finding Brat#2

[Margm]

2 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

 That’s a trauma you never recover from.

 

I'm sorry.  The trauma we have seen is not something I wanted to bring back.  I have to wave it away a lot of times, otherwise I cry and cry and still cannot help  things. 

 

[scba]

2 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

 

 

Maybe he was already gone and we were waiting for his body to stop.  I try not to go back there, but I just did writing this.  It was the most painful thing I’ve ever witnessed.  To have them so physically close yet so far away.  Basically already gone while still 'alive'.  That’s a trauma you never recover from.

 

I understand. My boyfriend was dying in ICU. I rubbed his bared feet in despair. Maybe he was gone but his body was still there, functioning through a machine constantly beeping. I asked the ICU workers to do something. They were wearing masks. Her eyes expressed nothing, or maybe resignation. I was standing there surrounded by cables, monitors, machines, rubbing his feet feeling hopeless. Feeling death there. Just there. Because the girl who was in the bed in front of his, passed away the night before. She was in his 20, the only child of a single mother. Death didn't go. It stayed and was waiting for him.

Yes. Some memories and experiences you can't recover from.

 

 

[kayc]

I have always had strong faith, long as I remember.  I wasn't raised that way as my parents were atheists when I was growing up, but this was a faith all my own.  They changed later on in life.  But I've had two NDEs although I think of them more as deaths and a choice/decision to stay...I went through the out of body, seeing below to what was going on with my body, etc.  It is not what shaped my faith, however, but merely confirmation of what I already believe.  I know there is something more than this, something unexplainable, and not everything that "is" needs to be explained away or understood...that's what faith is, it's like standing in the gap between what we  know & can explain...and mysteries which we accept but cannot explain. 

Whatever it is, I am glad for it!

[Margm]

You were allowed to make your own choice.  I'm glad you chose faith.  I was at church constantly, my only "outings" were to church socials.  I'm thankful that they raised me this way.  "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it".  Proverbs 22:6. It does not always work that way.  I resented being made to go even when I was ill and also as a small church's deacon's daughter I had to get up in the pulpit so frightened I did not know what I was reading.  I learned that pushing a child to do something that frightens them does not make them better at it, some children it nearly destroys.  My dad believed because his anxiety was laid low by getting up and pushing himself, the same did not work for me.  I learned to "crawl into myself" which was not good.  Different things work for different people.  I was different.  But it taught me many things.  

[Olegeezer]

Hi Joyce,

Sorry to hear you've bee ill. I hope you're on the mend. Hospitals aren't meant for vacations anymore, are they? I'm back to popping in now and then. I suppose I'm that proverbial bad penny. lol

One foot in front of the other...

Darrel

[Gwenivere]

3 hours ago, Marg M said:

I learned to "crawl into myself" which was not good.  Different things work for different people.

So true.  I had anxiety attacks as a kid and young adult for good reason.  Didn’t like speaking in public, car accidents, bring threatened, etc.  All natural for the reaction.  I overcame the public thing when I trained people on new phone systems.  Guess cause I was the expert.  When I got the anxiety disorder everything changed.  Things I I did easily were always approached with fear or worry.  Still fight it now even with the meds I’m on.  Of all the things I battle, this is the worst.   It makes it so difficult to deal with any slightly stressful situation.  Yet, I can be spontaneous.   It’s planned stuff I don’t card for that evokes  the over reaction.  34 years of this now.  It’s basically a living hell like grief no one understands unless they have it.  I know normal anxiety, and this isn’t it.  
 

[nashreed]

I often wonder how much of my anxiety and agorophobia are "inherited" and how much is from trauma. 

I was a weird kid, certainly. I always felt like there was something "missing" in my soul, and like I didn't actually have a personality (if that makes sense). I was supposed to have been a twin and there is a nagging sense of that loss that I have felt all my life. If it had been an understood and widely diagnosed thing when I was a kid, I would have been wayyy up on the Autism spectrum. But when I was a kid, I was just "weird" and "shy".

I was so grateful for Annette and after being with her for a few years, I was actually "normal" in my 20's- a productive, functioning member of society. I took chances, talked to people, managed music stores. None of the fear, and anger and not being able to look people in the eye.  I thought I might even be cured.

Then, in 2008, I started getting really bad panic attacks- like the feeling when you're a kid and have the "wind knocked out of you". I think the hard job of dealing with Annette's mounting health problems and pain (she developed RA in 2000) and her worsening eyesight just started to become too much (not to mention actual customer service in retail). I slowly started to regress. When I hit 40, it was really off to the races, and I literally up and quit my job in the middle of a shift a couple of months after I turned 40. (Around when my Mom really got so bad she couldn't even open the door and get the mail, which was on the other side of the wall outside)

How much is nature and how much is nurture? I just know that now all my anxieties have come to stay.

 

[Gwenivere]

45 minutes ago, nashreed said:

How much is nature and how much is nurture? I just know that now all my anxieties have come to stay.

If it helps at all, which did me, it does run in families.  It wasn’t talked about when I was growing up.  Once I got it I heard about several cousins, aunts had it and my maternal grandmother committed suicide from it.  They had no meds back in the early 1900’s for this and she wasn’t a drinker, a common go to for anxious people.  
 

my mother had Valium as needed.  I’m luckier with Xanax and another medicine on a schedule.  But it’s not perfect.  Maybe the next generation after the SSRI thing that is the rage now (and didn’t work well for me) will get more help.  
 

I do know my mother’s condition also affected me thru nurture.  She unconsciously instilled worry in me when I was a very extroverted and fearless kid.  It didn’t stick long as after I left home I was free and wild.  It wasn’t til it manifested physically at 31 that I became a prisoner.  There were always conflicts between my personality and the disorder.  I’m only grateful I didn’t get the agoraphobic part.  Hope I never do.  That is why I push myself to go out every day.  That and sitting here in this empty life just adds to depression.  
 

I know you connected with a friend which is great.  I hope once your both vaccinated you can do things.  Human connection is so important.   I still feel terribly lonely, but it helps a bit when I’ve talked to people I know.  Zoom is OK, but 3D interaction is more fulfilling.  Most days it’s just strangers, but they are contact.  Chatted with several people waiting after my shot yesterday while you have to wait the 15 minutes.

im do sorry about your childhood.  That should be a magical time of discovery.  It has its downs, ugh, the teenage years,  but all in all every person should have great memories.  Those were stolen from you.  It’s just not fair.

[nashreed]

Well, my childhood wasn't THAT bad. I mean, in grade school I was "The Nerd". It was a Catholic grade school, and it was a class of maybe 25 that basically went through grades 1-8 together, so we knew each other. I filled the role of "Nerd" because I fit the look (glasses, skinny), even though I wasn't smart. I was picked on, sure. That was just the way it was. In high school, forget it. They had no skills to deal with me. I was in the counselors office more than in class (and didn't graduate because of it). The counselor found me fascinating, but absolutely there was no talk of Autism, or Asperger's- things that I'm sure I have, but still have never been diagnosed. So, in high school, I was "The Basket Case", dressed all in black and stood to eat lunch. But the music in the 80's was freaking awesome, and I'm lucky to have grown up then. Video games were a good social activity for introverts too. No arcades anymore....

[Gwenivere]

I did catholic school for my education too!  I will say, I got a much better education for it.  But being smaller, you did know everyone for all that time.  High school was awful for me.  I had the ‘misfortune' of being almost 6 feet tall, skinny and definitely not popular as I was in lower grades.  I didn’t graduate either, I went into an experimental thing of jumping to college 6 months early because I had good SAT scores.  Never got a high school degree, but it never hampered me getting work.  All I knew is I wanted away from the cliques and being snubbed.  Anyway, that worked great and I got to be me with new friends that liked me.  
 

I don’t recall hearing anything about autism or aspergers even tho I majored in psych.  Had one friend for a few years with aspergers until a few years ago.  We had to establish how a relationship worked since he didn’t pick up on cues when he hurt people in conversation.  We learned a lot from each other about connection.   
 

80’s music is my thing too.  My prime was 75 to late 80’s.  I can’t listen to much of it now because of losing Steve and reminders, but I’m always amazed it is the most chosen for TV, commercials and movies.  

[kayc]

My friend, Jim, is Asperger, wasn't diagnosed until he was in the service, so no helps.  He did go through college, he's very smart, but he fixates on one thing at a time to an extreme, doesn't do confrontation/conflict, terrible at handling $/planning.  He has social anxiety.  We dated for a year, actually were engaged but he broke up when his mom was dying and he became her caregiver (one thing at a time, again).  He's a good man, good values, great sense of humor.  Very artistic!  That was his degree, he had a printing business and did the t-shirts & wraps for the race-car industry.

I don't think they knew about Asperger's back then (he was class of 72).

Boy do I know what it is to deal with anxiety, although mine has been greatly helped since taking Buspirone and 50 mg Trazodone.  

[nashreed]

2 hours ago, kayc said:

My friend, Jim, is Asperger, wasn't diagnosed until he was in the service, so no helps.  He did go through college, he's very smart, but he fixates on one thing at a time to an extreme, doesn't do confrontation/conflict, terrible at handling $/planning.  He has social anxiety.  We dated for a year, actually were engaged but he broke up when his mom was dying and he became her caregiver (one thing at a time, again).  He's a good man, good values, great sense of humor.  Very artistic!  That was his degree, he had a printing business and did the t-shirts & wraps for the race-car industry.

I don't think they knew about Asperger's back then (he was class of 72).

Boy do I know what it is to deal with anxiety, although mine has been greatly helped since taking Buspirone and 50 mg Trazodone.  

Well, I certainly am terrible with money, don't do confrontation....My worst trait is not knowing when I hurt people feelings. I have no filter. I was always hurting Annette's feelings, and it made me feel terrible. She helped me a lot and kept me in check, but now I'm doing it with my Mom even. I just feel exhausted trying to fight the depression and anxiety and I feel like they've won. The only thing I take is Xanax- everything else just makes me feel like...not myself. I hate myself though, so I don't know why I need to feel like someone I hate. 

[Gwenivere]

6 hours ago, nashreed said:

I have no filter.

That’s one of the defining traits.  The money thing I saw in my friend also.  I know it wasn’t intentional, but he could say somethings that cut to the quick.  Thus our talks defining rules.  
 

I’m glad you have something for the anxiety and I know how defeating grief can feel.  I can’t possibly imagine the battle your fighting. I know grief ramped mine up.  
 

I’m not happy or content about being me either.  That is something I’ve never felt and it’s very hard to deal with day after day.  The alarm goes off every day and it’s a struggle knowing another day waits.  Nothing will come of it that is remotely positive anymore.  I get things done that are positive, but I don’t feel it.  It’s a horrid way to live.  I know when things changed for me from getting by to now struggling.  Can’t change those so I’m stuck for now.  That creates more anxiety and grief.

[kayc]

22 hours ago, nashreed said:

My worst trait is not knowing when I hurt people feelings. I have no filter.

Yeah, Jim was that way too, but once I learned about Aspies, it helped tremendously, I learned to know his heart and read his intent, and not personalize so much.  When I had the knowledge of what it was about then it helped me to realize where he was coming from, it's like he wasn't playing fully equipped so I couldn't judge him by the same standards as everyone else.  He had a beautiful heart and I knew it.  I got to where I could even laugh it off when he said something that could have been taken as offensive, he was VERY blunt!  I imagine it was hard for his kids sometimes, esp. growing up.  They didn't know about such things back then.

I'm sorry you feel like you hate yourself.  I remember assuring Jim to accept himself for who he was, differences and all!  I did.

Gwen, my heart goes out to you also, I wish you could see yourself as I do.  You are an amazing person who does her best with what she has, strong survival instinct, WANTS good life but not handed out fairly.  Few would do as well as you under the circumstances!

[Gwenivere]

Thank you, Kay.  It was another day of crawling into the world, after I messed up my snooze alarm.  The long ritual of dressing and getting the house opened up. Also the thrill off putting on larger jeans from the lack of activity and slouching that has increased my butt and bloating.  Never changed sizes since I was in my late teens.  Pinning up once thick blonde hair, now dark and streaked with gray.  Never pinned it up before.  Finding out walking as I used to is but a dream, not reality.  Then the fear of thinking surgery.  
 

got a message from my housekeepers wanting to change when they come.  Can not one day go by without something shifting?   Life’s a mess as it is.  I’m sick of so many changes the last year plus has brought.  I know we can all say that about the pandemic.  That itself has changed everything we each did to survive inside.  Created barriers to support and comfort.  It’s one thing I can feel a part of the world with.  That’s pretty sad it took that.

I don’t know if I do the best with what I have.  The surgery hangs over me like a very heavy gamble and I am NOT a gambler, never have been.  I wiped down the bathroom last night and it about killed me.  Can’t keep doing this.  Even cleaning the kitchen sink will have me crouched over it til I can flop in a chair for relief.  The thought of trips down the hall, and even more so to stores, takes getting gripped mentally.   I went to Target and there were no carts.  Had to wait for one as I can’t do the walks around stores without. 
 

sorry, this has turned into a self pity ramble when you wrote me something that should have brightened my day, Kay.  You’re caring, tho, did.   Immensely.  If I could hug you, I would.  You are so special to me as I read about all you get done with your obstacles.  I’d say I don’t know how you do it, but I kinda do. Just not at the level you do. You amaze me!   ❤️
 

[kayc]

I used to be a blonde too, then it suddenly turned dark with a pregnancy/hormone change, now it's grey/white in the front, dark in the back.  Wish it'd all go white, I like that.  I used to always have long hair until having kids, but didn't have time to fool with it and have had it short for years now.  

My biggest handicap are my hands, no strength, lots of pain.  We can work through the pain to some extent but not much I can do with loss of strength in hands, it's not muscle, it's tendons, and with the damage I've sustained, not likely to improve.  At least doctors haven't given me any hope.  I get more exercise doing things around here than they have in their exercise paper.  That was nothing.  

Today I cleaned out the wood stove, first time in seven months, it needed it, I heaped a 5 gallon bucket with it!  Disposed of the ash, vacuumed, then had to clean out the vacuum and change the filters.  I still need to redust everything in the house, ugh, that'll have to wait another day or two as I take my sister to Eugene for her birthday today and meet my siblings, daughter, niece for lunch, all but one is coming, she's still waiting for her waiting period to be over and after that, our County will be back on lock-down.  Not like we're not used to it!  Today I eat out for the third time this week, that after months of not eating out once!  Just worked out that way.  Took Peggy out to try a friend's restaurant a couple of days ago, it was WONDERFUL!  She even had a Keto menu!  When I took my friend Iris to Eugene to pick up her new car, she took me to Red Robin, that was wonderful too and they had lettuce wraps.  Today we're going to meet at Roadhouse Grill in Springfield, they have wonderful food, a little spendy, I hope we can be at the same table but who knows.  We haven't gotten together all year!  So I'm going to enjoy things being open this week as it's back to same old, same old next week.

Thank you, Gwen, it's a struggle, I don't think people realize how much, but I get by...for now.  And now is all I can do, I can't worry about when I turn 90.  Gosh, I'll be 70 next year!  I don't worry about 70s as much as 80s, I just hope my hands hold out and I can continue driving!  Funny, I got the generator and generlink last year and wouldn't you know I never had to use it once!  That's good though, insurance against electricity going out! 

 

[Gwenivere]

Hope you have a good visit snd meal before lockdown again.  I haven’t been to a restaurant since I went with Steve.  So over 6 years.  I think I remember how it’s done.  You pick something you want, it’s made for you and you don’t see to clean up so you can totally focus on enjoying the company,  right?  
 

it’s ironic where pain hits the hardest, tho all of it is bad.  You with your hands you do depend on, me with my back and legs, tho not being able to do any of the things each of our maladies cause just plain complicates life.  

I called my cousin in NM last night.  We opted not to discuss details of our woes, but it was the first time I ever heard her express that she wonders why she even bothers getting up anymore.  The same I feel.  Just our dogs, which is good, but no inner spark.  She has a couple kids and grand kids too.  Yet she is tiring of the constant medical limits that will just continue to mount or get worse.  I heard from one of the community center women she is doing a bunch of stuff relatively unimpeded.  She’s always pretty happy proving it is being able to function (health) is so important.  She’s 70 too.  
 

 

[kayc]

It has to be hard seeing people older than you function relatively easy while you struggle, no fault of your own!  Life is unfair, that's for sure!  I feel it especially seeing women still with their husbands and complaining about the little things that don't matter, they have much to be grateful for and complain!  I don't want to hear it.  I try to say something positive about their husbands and remind them how they will miss them when they're gone, but it's lost on deaf ears, I did that with Peggy and NOW she gets it!  Regret is a bitter pill to live with later on.  I tell her to TELL Bert now how she feels, who knows but he can hear us, so much we don't know about the next realm, but it can't hurt to try and if it helps her to say it, then that is good. 

We had a nice lunch but I wish we had a round table instead of rectangular as we couldn't hear what each other were saying and it felt fragmented, Julie got there first and appointed seats, putting Peggy at the far end across from my daughter.  I didn't hear much of what was said but Peggy and Melissa visited together.  Julie & Chelsea talked to Mick (next to me) and I caught fragments of conversation now and then, which I responded to but Peggy couldn't hear anyone but Melissa!  So it didn't turn out as we'd hoped.  I took Peggy shopping afterwards, she hadn't been out for 1 1/2 years to stores, so although it meant me getting her walker in/out of the car a few times, she enjoyed her day.  Kodie was alone in the house far too long but he handled it, took him to Jazzy's to play afterwards, then walked him to pay the lawn guy was was here and gone by the time we got home, I hadn't known he was coming.  Wow, six years w/o being in a restaurant!  I go for the experience of being out with someone, not necessarily the food as I can get takeout just as good.  I asked for a lettuce wrap and they brought me a messy pile on a small bed of lettuce.  I sent it back requesting they do a WRAP this time!  So ridiculous.  I had to use a basket liner to wrap it in so I could eat it.  What do they think sometimes!

I'm glad you had a good visit with your cousin.  I RARELY see or talk to mine.  Don't know where most of them are.

[Gwenivere]

6 hours ago, kayc said:

Wow, six years w/o being in a restaurant!  I go for the experience of being out with someone, not necessarily the food

Truly helps if you have someone to go with.  🙂

 

6 hours ago, kayc said:

It has to be hard seeing people older than you function relatively easy while you struggle, no fault of your own!  Life is unfair, that's for sure! 

Very true.  Having met a couple of women, I would have many opportunities to do things with and get me out of this isolating funk.  It kinda just drives the point home how in firmed I am.  Was supposed to have a zoom social visit today, but the woman is taking her dog to the vet and doesn’t think she’ll be home in time.  Not her fault, but I get so little interaction it’s a big deal to me.  She’s also 69 and has a jam packed life.  Taking up the drums again after years of not playing.  I wince having to bring distilled water bottles inside. The 70 year old I met is always going swimming and wears a fit bit.  I wouldn’t dare.  I have yet to figure out how to have an active brain in a compromised body.  I also worry that this will start affecting that.  Lots of studies connecting exercise and social connection with good mental health and cognition.  I see some slipping already.  Most my energy goes to fighting thru the pain and other conditions.  There’s 6 so it’s a full plate.     
 

I’d like to know who decided life didn’t have to be fair.  It could have gone the other way and saved the world a lot of misery and made for more fairness and compassion.   This is when I wish there were karma.  If I can’t have Steve, it would be nice that the time caregiving could balance that loss with some other things to lighten that void.  It wouldn’t be the same, but I’d sure like the physical freedom back to fill some of this time beyond sitting or struggling thru tasks.  Feel some accomplishment and connection with people.

But, it is what it is.  Some things we can change, others we cannot.  I’m just tired of my reality.
 

 

[kayc]

(((hugs)))