Where Do I Fit In?

[Guest moparlicious]

It has been 8 months since my Dan has passed and I still try to go from day to day and it is struggle day day. One of our daughters goes to counseling, and her family support person told us, "well, its been 8 months you should be getting over it". Over it? Hmmm still trying to define"IT" in my brain, I sat there numb and frozen as if time stopped. This is a man I was with since high school, have 3 children with and died at the age of 41 years old! We had so many dreams and so many things we wanted to do. In fact, my husband wanted to renew our vows before he died and we never got that chance. I see couples all around me and I feel so much depression, jealousy and anxiety. I hear the word cancer and I feel like I am going to jump out of my skin.I am not sleeping well at night and I am so, so sad all the time. I put on that fake smiley face at work and school just so I don't have to tell everyone how I really feel, for when you do, you see the jaws drop and the same old line, "I'm sorry". I began answering people, "yeah so I am I, if you only knew,is what I was thinking. I know time will heal, but the pain sucks!!! I miss everything about him, his smile, touch, getting up with me in the morning and making sure I eat before I go to work. Now,I just feel no reason to smile or be happy. I have tried many support groups and counseling, the support groups are not for me, and the counseling is a waste of time(the remedy for that is medication)( I truly believe I am allergic to those, I tried 10 or 12 different ones and they all make me so so sick or so out of it, I don't even feel) No THanks!! I am just here. I am just a body which has organs and is just here, for that is all I have to offer today. Thanks for listening,Kim

[LarrysGirl]

Kim, I know its rough. I still feel I don't fit in anywhere. We just miss them so much and we miss the life we had with them. I also react to the "cancer" word because it takes me back to a time that was so hard. Please don't be hard on yourself. You already know that the grief is one day at a time, some better, some worse. Just let the feelings out here, that is how we heal. Deborah

Edited May 6, 2008 by LarrysGirl

[kayc]

Kim,

I am so sorry. That support person should be fired for her ignorant remarks! No one who loved anyone "got over it" in 8 months! I'm not sure there ever IS a "getting over it"! We learn to deal with it, that's all, and it takes a long time to do that. The pain DOES suck, and unfortunately, there's not way to circumvent the pain, it has to be gone through. We can take medication, drink, do whatever to dull the pain but in the end, it's still there, our life is still what it is, and we have to deal with it. Believe me, if there was a way out, I would have found it. Remarrying doesn't alter it either, at least most of you are smart enough not to even think about going there. No, in the end, we still miss them and our life is not the same. I CAN say, however, it DOES get better. Karen is my role model, even though I haven't patterned my life after hers, we all have to find our own way, but she has been an example to me. She has tried to busy herself, find meaning in life, reached out to others, all while still remembering her husband. We need to develop or discover that new identity and I'm sorry, that doesn't usually happen in 8 months and maybe not even in two years, I think it starts to get more manageable about the third year, yet even Deborah will attest that it hasn't improved a whole lot for her...you see, we all have different journeys, different timetables, and for anyone to tell you that you should be "getting over it", well I can't think of a torture bad enough for them!!! THEY should try going down this route so they'd know what they are talking about! I'm sorry, that just makes me mad!! I love you and you have a listening ear and sympathetic heart here!

KayC

[KathyG]

Kim, even if you feel out of place elsewhere, you DO fit in with the rest of us here. People who tell us we have to recover within a certain amount of time may feel they're sympathizing with us, but they aren't empathizing; they are sorry for us but they don't try to understand or feel our pain.

A grief counselor (of all people!) who gives others a deadline to "get over" their loss seriously lacks common sense or compassion. Sometimes, though, a remark that's meant to be comforting can hurt. For example, a good friend of mine who lost a two-year-old daughter tried to tell me that I need to stop thinking so much about Bill because "you can't live in the past." I replied that no, we can't, but our late husbands and what we shared with them forever changed us. For anyone who has been in a wonderful marriage or relationship, one of the worst parts of surviving our loved one is being forced to accept an unwelcome possibility: the best years of our lives may be over. So how can we NOT miss what we had?

We are neither the women we were before we met our spouses, nor the women we were while they lived. But the quality of our experiences as wives will definitely help shape the new identities we're trying to form. Our spouses will always be with us the rest of our days.

[PattyAnn]

Kim,

I'm in the same boat. It seems that when a woman loses her husband, that everyone has plenty of advise for us, but they still have their husbands so how could they possibly know what deep complicated grief for our spouses feels like.

I've had so much unsolicited advise given to me I could scream. They don't know what it's like to go through the gut wrenching experience of seeing your husband and best friend suffer and then die right in front of you! Then they want to give you advise on how to behave!!! (take antidepressants...get into volunteer work, stop talking about your grief because we are ready to move on and don't want to hear about your sorrow, etc., etc.)

Sometimes it's just too much. So I, like you, put on a happy face and lie right through the smile and go alone with their concept of getting over it. But it's all a sham. I still hurt like h*ll!!! I miss Walter, I miss our life together! I just miss everything about him! Get over 33 years in 8 months. That's absurd!!

Sorry for my venting, but I can relate to what you said and I get my feathers ruffled. I hope you know how much we care about your pain of Dan not being here with you. I know how deeply it can hurt. My Walter died just a little over 8 months ago as well, and I still feel like an empty shell.

With Love,

Pat

[Caroline]

Oh, my dear Kim,

Bless your heart. Your post just touched me to my toes And, I wish so much I had some words of wisdom and a magic wand to wave and take away your pain.

I too found no comfort in the councelling etc. And I find that unless someone is in the throes of this pain, they can't begin to understand. Plus, I think that in general because the population is just so big and the media just cranks out the most awful of news and people have become numb to all the pain there is in the world. But I know the hurt, I know the pain and it doesn't seem to take a rest. I just don't think it is for us to understand. My Mother always told me that "hell" is here on earth and everything we go through is to prepare us for the future. Now that can be taken as a very pesimistic attitude i.e. maybe something in our future will be even worse but I look at it that life is a journey and we do learn from all our experiences. In that great day in the future you may meet someone wonderful who loves you and that you love. You will never love them in the same way as your lost love, but it is possible to find happiness again. And since you were lucky this first time around, it's for sure that experience will keep you from falling for any man who doesn't measure up. Hope I have made some sense to you. I'm just a fellow traveller on this scary seemingly never ending road back to some kind of living. Caroline

[Guest moparlicious]

I am so touched and amazed at each and every one of your wonderful spirt and hearts, I don't know how I would make it through without my new and amazing family which I found on this site. I was very scared and nervous to get on this site at first, but I cannot begin to describe how glad I did, For I know I fit in here and I am truly grateful for all the kindness, love and honesty which I have found on this site. If I feel crummy, I tell you all, and it is O.K, for some of you are farther down this scary and unbelievable road than others but we all feel pain and sorrow for the one we have lost and it never goes unjustified from any of you. I really love you all and you are so, so special to me. I am blessed to have you all in my life and I am forever grateful for you all!!! Thank you does not begin to describe my feelings. I continue to pray for all of us and thanks for being here for me.Just when all hope seems gone and I see no purpose in life, I get on here and I am able to continue venturing on, one step at a time, hand and hand with all you. God bless you my special and best family ever, Kim

[jackietnd1]

kim,

I feel you, i dont have a child howevevee I rhink thr cwee note good. I do feel youe pain, I have been crying all day. It' benn only 6 weeks for me and I am juts going thing. wencourage you to allow youself to feel as I am, I cry when I have and feel what I have to and move on. I love you and keep your head uo and feel what you must to feel,be there for you children. like I said today was very hard fom me however I must go through the feelins ans I a, ok with that. Stay Storong an stay encourage. Love Jackie

[Lin_in_Cave Creek]

Hi Kim,

You sound so much like me. I'm just 9 months out, 50 yrs young with 2 young children (we started late) and left with no one to talk to except those that still have their husbands. The latest quote from a married friend was "at least you're still young enough to remarry." After I stared at her for what seemed like several minutes, I said "and I would want to do that why?" I, too, have had someone tell me that I need to "let go" and "move on." I wonder if she will take her own advise when she loses her husband of 50 years. She should know that we wouldn't wish this pain and lonliness on anyone.

I've often said that if I ever answered the question, "How are you?" people would leave with their head's spinning, and I bet they would never ask me that question again. Kim, you do whatever is best for you. I used to worry about what people thought, but since my husband's passing, I worry about my children and me, and that's it. Unfortunately, society has left us a little callus, but in time as we heal, we will return to being the loving and caring people we really are. But for now, we need to do what helps us heal, and if not worrying about others is helpful to our healing, then it will have to be that way. Tonight, for the first time, I joined a counseling group. I don't know if it will work for me, but I'm willing to give it a go. At least everyone in the room understood how I felt and could relate to what I was talking about.

As everyone else has said, we are here for you...Linda

[DesertBob]

Linda,

Good for you. I would never say never -- life is never that cut and dried -- but the odds of me remarrying are close to zilch for about a dozen very good reasons. I take these kinds of remarks as just another manifestation of how people can't face the truth that all things are impermanent and that they could be next. We are like a dissonant chord in the melody of life and people just want resolution -- not for us, but for themselves. So they don't have to imagine themselves in our position. The truth is, except in rare cases, sooner or later one or the other partner in any relationship is going to die first and leave the other to grieve. It's part of life. CS Lewis (who lost his wife to cancer) said it's even a phase of marriage.

There is no helping it. People want to remain deeply unconscious about this aspect of life. I don't blame them. Let them dream on. Their time will come, and until then they will be as blissfully ignorant as we once were. It's a mercy, really.

Best,

--Bob

The latest quote from a married friend was "at least you're still young enough to remarry." After I stared at her for what seemed like several minutes, I said "and I would want to do that why?"

[DoubleJo]

8 months is barely beginning to comprehend a close death. You will be in mental and emotional turmoil for quite awhile.

Regarding what people say to you, there is another perspective to come from.

When my first husband died, no one said anything. His family considered him the runt of the litter and ignored him. We owned a business yet the people we knew for years in our center ignored it. I dealt with it and took care of everything alone. When my second husband died I knew different people and his family was very caring. I realized it wasn't what people "said", it was the fact that they said "something". When you're hurting so terribly deeply , anything people say can seem too trivial to compare to your pain, but people say what they can to try and make you feel better; to ACKNOWLEDGE you and your suffering. Its' not what they say necessarily, its that they say something to show they care. If people ignored your deaths would that make you feel better? People sometimes say, "you still have the chance to remarry". What they're saying is: Don't give up. There is hope in the future, that life still gives even though you may not want to take right now.

They are not attacking you personally, or diminishing your spouse.

On the contrary. They are acknowledging that the ability to have found love once means love exists.

A person doesn't have to give up feelings for one to have feelings for another. We love all our children, our parents, our spouses. Our hearts are immense and can break, bend and heal, but it doesn't portion out love in doses that get used up.

Most of us here are "young." In out 50's. We could have lost our spouses in our 40s. or 30's. A friend of mine in her late 60's says it is worse for her, having spent 45 years with her spouse. Death is never welcomed at anytime.

I think we can be angry at death, but the well-meaning sentiments of friends and strangers should be taken as a remembrance to our loved one, and nothing more.

People can be all too aware of death coming to visit them too. Thats' why many are afraid to say anything and avoid the widowed. It scares them.

My best to all- DoubleJo

Edited May 12, 2008 by DoubleJo

[DesertBob]

I would agree with you more wholeheartedly, DoubleJo, if after the first six months or so there weren't such an undercurrent of annoyance in many people who express these clumsy sentiments. The "get over it so I don't have to see it" sentiment.

But, in practical terms, your approach is probably the best. You can't do anything about idiots, and even many of those have some well-meaning good intention in there someplace. Take it as a hand-on-your-shoulder solidarity thing and don't expect more than that, and keep on keeping on.

--Bob

8 months is barely beginning to comprehend a close death. You will be in mental and emotional turmoil for quite awhile.

Regarding what people say to you, there is another perspective to come from.

When my first husband died, no one said anything. His family considered him the runt of the litter and ignored him. We owned a business yet the people we knew for years in our center ignored it. I dealt with it and took care of everything alone. When my second husband died I knew different people and his family was very caring. I realized it wasn't what people "said", it was the fact that they said "something". When you're hurting so terribly deeply , anything people say can seem too trivial to compare to your pain, but people say what they can to try and make you feel better; to ACKNOWLEDGE you and your suffering. Its' not what they say necessarily, its that they say something to show they care. If people ignored your deaths would that make you feel better? People sometimes say, "you still have the chance to remarry". What they're saying is: Don't give up. There is hope in the future, that life still gives even though you may not want to take right now.

They are not attacking you personally, or diminishing your spouse.

On the contrary. They are acknowledging that the ability to have found love once means love exists.

A person doesn't have to give up feelings for one to have feelings for another. We love all our children, our parents, our spouses. Our hearts are immense and can break, bend and heal, but it doesn't portion out love in doses that get used up.

Most of us here are "young." In out 50's. We could have lost our spouses in our 40s. or 30's. A friend of mine in her late 60's says it is worse for her, having spent 45 years with her spouse. Death is never welcomed at anytime.

I think we can be angry at death, but the well-meaning sentiments of friends and strangers should be taken as a remembrance to our loved one, and nothing more.

People can be all too aware of death coming to visit them too. Thats' why many are afraid to say anything and avoid the widowed. It scares them.

My best to all- DoubleJo

[kayc]

"people just want resolution -- not for us, but for themselves." I agree. I had people tell me that when George died, but it did not have the desired affect (to comfort or lend hope), and I still consider it to be an inappropriate remark. Now that I have remarried they consider they were right in telling me so, and I still consider it to be a highly inappropriate remark unless someone is looking for a mate. I think Bob is correct that the remark is made to make themselves feel more comfortable with little regard as to how we are actually feeling. My opinion is that I was not ready to remarry when I did and would have been better off giving myself more time to become aware of who I was independently of my marriage, and instead of trying to "put my life back together", learn to accept it as it now was. At any rate, it is a lesson I am having to learn regardless, and remarrying did not help me to escape it. Sometimes I think God really does have a sense of humor and I can now smile with Him and don't mean that in an offensive way in the least.

I commend you, Doublejo, you are very kind and understanding, but I still think some of people's remarks would be best kept to themselves rather than their giving verbage just for the sake of rattling on. I think there are more appropriate ways people can show caring, such as listening, such as lending a helping hand in a tangible way, such as saying something encouraging and not something stupid or offensive. It is good, however, if we can look past the stupid things people say and try to see their intent, which is to somehow help us through this really rough time in our life. We all realize all too well that someday they will also be facing this very same thing and then they will understand...I am reminded of that as my friend Virgie's husband is in the hospital and may not live...she is now going through the beginning stages of grief, and in no way do I hold it against her for saying inappropriate remarks when George died...I only want to put my arms around her and tell her I'll be there for her come what may. She did not know...I wish she still didn't.

[DoubleJo]

As the closest person to our deceased, we all have been having the strangest time of your lives. Other deaths never prepared us for this one. Most people cannot function, cannot think, cannot understand or control their feelings. There is a desperate search for answers and ending to this once never known anguish. Unless another has experienced the same, can you imagine how unknown the depth of your feelings are to them? We are shocked and sent spinning. That is why so many cannot get the time span of your grief. It DOES disturb them. Like us,they cannot fathom it, and the strong emotions scare them. It is uncomfortable for them. Think of times in your lives when you couldn't take someones' screaming, or crying anymore and they were told to stop it. Once someone close dies there is no amount of compassion and sharing that takes away the frustration and despair we feel. I have heard people complain they wanted to be left alone, "didn't they understand?' Of complaints that they wanted silence, wanted no one around. The people offering their concern can't win. What we all want is for our loved ones to return and that cannot be given by these people. They cannot give you what you want.

Yes, there are truly stupid people, some can be idiots. Some are not wellmeaning at all. Some are just downright nasty. What people say and do needs to be seen for what it is intended to be.

Take care- this is a terrible time for you.

If I said I know how you feel, you might be angry, and say- "no one knows how I feel- how insulting" It is really hard to know what to say.

DoubleJo

[LarrysGirl]

I think that it is true of some people that their intentions are not to hurt us but I've had my share of some pretty thoughtless people. For me its the people who try to diminish my grief or try to take it away from me, thats when I get upset.

I wanted to share a quote from a newsletter I receive here from a local widows support group. "Don't let anyone take your grief away from you. You deserve it and you must have it. If you had a broken leg, no one would criticize you for using crutches until it was healed. If you had major surgery, no one would pressure you to run in a marathon the next week. Grief is a major wound. It does not heal overnight. You must have the time and the crutches until you heal." Deborah

[kayc]

I disagree that some of them "can't win" because I had people who told me to call them any time and when I did they were "busy" and said they'd call back, but never did. They moved and didn't leave forwarding addresses or new phone numbers. I don't think I was that bad to be around! True friends should stick by you. The reason some of us withdraw and don't want around people is because of the stupid things they say, the thoughtless remarks, and like Deborah said, they try to diminish our grief to make it more palatable to them, but we have to go through it and if they experienced it they would have to go through it too. They should count their lucky stars that they get to come home to their husbands and their lives go on the same...ours didn't.

[DoubleJo]

I'm sorry I wasn't being clear. I was referring to people you know only as acquaintences or strangers, and the "married again" statement.

It is at these times you find out who your real friends are, sadly. Many people are cold and callous, I know this first hand.

Whenever people say call me, etc., my first thought is why? If you care you'd call me. It's a dismissive statement I no longer take seriously, and these people rarely follow through. Very disheartening. It doesn't say much good about alot of people.

Take care- DoubleJo

[Lin_in_Cave Creek]

I've often said the difference between acquaintences and friends...acquaintences say "call me if you need anything," and friends call and ask "what do you need?"

Lin

[KathyG]

DoubleJo and Lin, I mostly agree with your take on this. But in some cases, I think the people who invite us to call them (instead of just calling themselves) do that because:

- Some folks prefer to be left alone when they're mourning.

- They know some people find it difficult to ask for help, so they want to give us the opportunity to request help when we need it, not just when it's offered.

I wish more people would do this:

- Ask the bereaved person if they need anything right now.

- Invite him or her to call whenever they need something in the future.

- Tell the person they will check back in a few days or weeks if he or she hasn't contacted them. And then actually follow up.

[STARKISS]

Hi All,

I did not lose a spouse, partner, or significant other but I too had a hard time trying to figure out where I belong...You see I lived most of my life with my parents and they both died in 2005 and I had to leave the house behind and try to find out where I belonged... I now live with my sister and her husband and even though we are family there are many married couples on the street with no single people so when the neighbors get together I get forgot about... So you see I am still trying to figure out where I fit in.... Shelley

[DoubleJo]

KathyG:

I guess you prove my point. What is viewed as helpful and caring to one can be viewed differently by another. We can't read peoples' minds to get their intentions and they can't read ours to get our needs at that moment.

I guess we just need to rely less on others so the disappointment isn't as great and be happy when someone does come through. My mom used to say: "If you don't expect much, you can't be disappointed." Sadly, she was right.

Shelley- You're in a tough spot. Perhaps they think you'd be uncomfortable with them? Do they plan such type of events that you have to be a larger unit to participate? Best to you- DoubleJo

[STARKISS]

Hi Doublejo,

Usually I am asked to babysit when they plan couple times... Which sometimes I do not mind but I think now they just consider me the babysitter and nothing else... Shelley

[Lily]

It has been 8 months since my Dan has passed and I still try to go from day to day and it is struggle day day. One of our daughters goes to counseling, and her family support person told us, "well, its been 8 months you should be getting over it". Over it? Hmmm still trying to define"IT" in my brain, I sat there numb and frozen as if time stopped. This is a man I was with since high school, have 3 children with and died at the age of 41 years old! We had so many dreams and so many things we wanted to do. In fact, my husband wanted to renew our vows before he died and we never got that chance. I see couples all around me and I feel so much depression, jealousy and anxiety. I hear the word cancer and I feel like I am going to jump out of my skin.I am not sleeping well at night and I am so, so sad all the time. I put on that fake smiley face at work and school just so I don't have to tell everyone how I really feel, for when you do, you see the jaws drop and the same old line, "I'm sorry". I began answering people, "yeah so I am I, if you only knew,is what I was thinking. I know time will heal, but the pain sucks!!! I miss everything about him, his smile, touch, getting up with me in the morning and making sure I eat before I go to work. Now,I just feel no reason to smile or be happy. I have tried many support groups and counseling, the support groups are not for me, and the counseling is a waste of time(the remedy for that is medication)( I truly believe I am allergic to those, I tried 10 or 12 different ones and they all make me so so sick or so out of it, I don't even feel) No THanks!! I am just here. I am just a body which has organs and is just here, for that is all I have to offer today. Thanks for listening,Kim

Kim, When I read your post I felt as though every word and feeling you had

expressed exactly what I feel....like you, I put on a fake smile because

if I don't, people don't know how to react to the grieving that is going

on in my heart...with me anytime can bring a painful sobbing - whether I'm

riding around in the car or walking with my dog or waking in the morning

or listening to something on tv or just anything...I miss my husband so

much and I'm tired of saying that to people who just hear the words and

can't feel the pain and the loss that's so horrible....I, too, tried a

counselor and I liked her well enough, but in some ways it seemed like

things were worse because, once again, nothing is going to bring Rich back.

I feel no joy, no life, nothing. I wish I could help you, I wish someone

could help me. But, Kim, I do know the terrible torment you're going

through; I know that what we're doing is just going through the motions of

living; I know that sometimes I just want to scream and scream and scream

and sometimes I do - and I know that sometimes for the moment that helps -

even if for only a little while - and maybe it's these "little whiles" that

will get us through - I keep trying and do keep busy - and somehow I get

through the day - but I feel dead on the inside and I don't know what to do

about that...I wish someone had a remedy for that. If I couldnn't come

to this site, I really don't know what I would do because at least here I

know that we all feel a sorrow that can't be expressed in words and we don't

have to put on a fake smile here, do we. you take care, kim. Lily

[Guest moparlicious]

lily and everyone elese who posted,

Thank you very much for all your support and care. Your right Lily, No fake smiles here, just trying to make it through as we all are. I am so sad and feel dead inside as well, the only purpose I see here is for my children, but why do so many bad things happen to good people.Dan was the kindest most thoughtful person I have ever known.He never had a unkind word to say about anyone, did not curse and was so caring. A great husband and father. He loved so openly and warmly to all. I just don't get it. Love you all, Kim

[DoubleJo]

Shelley- sounds like they are taking you for granted as the babysitter. Shame they are so oblivious to you as individual. Looks like you'll have to speak up. Nicely, of course, but still be clear.

Kim, Lily, et al:

You're going thru the "hell time". There doesn't seem to be much you can do about it because the reality that is trying to sink in is too terrible to fully comprehend, let alone accept. The anguish blankets everything. It pervades all thought and actions and rightly so, because your entire world hss been turned crazy and is now disoriented. Its' a period of hell each seems destined to struggle with alone because its the inner turmoil we each have to absorb. People outside ourselves just cannot reach inside us and make it better. We have to struggle to find some way to change this anguish and disbelief over our lives into something comprehensible. No easy task.

It is exhausting and our minds fill with so many thoughts it is hard to sort them all out, let alone deal with them.

Know that we have some understanding of your situatrion and care.

Hang in there. Time takes some of the rough edges off.

DoubleJo