Communication

[Chai]

This is something that I, and I am sure others (including Nicole, who has sortof become my grief-talk buddy), have issues with.

How do we communicate with those who do not understand what we are going through? Do we hide our sad feelings, or let the tears flow? What if we feel sad, but only internally and there are no tears? Should we talk to others about it? What if we want to talk to people in-the-moment, but feel we shouldn't or can't?

This thread is about communicating with people we encounter in our daily life about grief, people who may not understand, but who are perhaps present during the day when we experience sad moments, and therefore become involved. Or DO they? Should we involve these people? Or just have a private moment to ourselves? Do we say "excuse me" and walk away? What if we are actually hoping, that somehow, we won't have to hide the sadness that we are experiencing day to day? What if it HURTS to hide the sadness, when it is churning so strongly inside of us?

As a college student, I do not know a lot of people in my age group who have experienced the loss of a parent as I have. I do think I should be open with my friends, but I am held back by my own fear of burdening them, or even worse, of experiencing an insincere or frightened response from them that would cause some more sad feelings in me.

I feel repressed, sometimes, when I have moments of grief in my day-to-day life, and no one to turn to. Perhaps it is something that I myself can remedy, by "reaching out." That's why I made this thread, to ask -

How do we deal with this?

In a recent email to Nicole, I came upon the idea of just...letting it out. Acknowledge the feelings, and talking about them when you feel them. Tucking them away is probably more hurting us, right?

[As a disclaimer of sorts I want to say, that I know to some grief is a private matter, and the idea of sharing it feels really weird. This is just my personal feeling, of wanting to share. No one should feel forced to share if they don't want to. Partly my sharing urge is because, now that he is gone, I want to share my dad with people. I want to talk to people about him, even if they didn't know him.

Also, I think this board is a form of communication.]

My dad in his healing work advocated a method of releasing the emotions, acknowledging the feelings and bringing them out into the open, even if the person you are revealing them to might have some trouble with the truth.

I said to Nicole:

"I want them to understand, but I realize that they will need my help if I expect them to understand. At the same time, I fear that they are afraid of my grief, of that topic, or that I would be burdening them by confiding my sad thoughts with them. Friends are supposed to be confidantes though, are they not? It is only making you and I sadder, that we cannot confide in our friends.

I think it is important, tough though it may be to spit the words out, to acknowledge our sadness in front of people. It is hard. For instance, today something in class made me think of my father, and I almost started talking to a friend about it, but didn't. In retrospect I am thinking, I should. Our friends do not know what it is like to lose a parent, but they can still act as a listening ear or give us a hug.

Without grabbing that opportunity, we are experiencing even in our friend groups, a distancing, in which we are in one place so different than them. They will never be in that exact place with us, having not lost parents, but they can stand beside us and be there for us in any way they can. Just having the distance lessened, instead of feeling that yawning, lonely gap, I think will help."

Do any of you have similar issues communicating (outside of with people on this board and perhaps a select few, or even there may be trouble finding a "select few") with people?

Any tips? Help?

This is something I am dealing with every day. And it even pops upon me in random moments, like when I reminded of my dad in class and start feeling sad. Should I just depend on my Monday counseling appointsment for talking about this? I would prefer to be able to open up to my friends, and not feel like I cannot talk to them about something that is so central and forefront in my mind right now.

[mlg]

Are you by any chance taking some kind of a speech class? If so, maybe one of your speeches could address this topic. What a way to get feedback.

I know when my kids went to college their were often guest speakers that came and talked in small forums. Maybe in a psychology class or in the evenings. Is there anybody that you could put a bug in their ear that this would be a good topic. Maybe not just loss of a parent but any loss of a loved one.

[Chai]

Are you by any chance taking some kind of a speech class? If so, maybe one of your speeches could address this topic. What a way to get feedback.

I know when my kids went to college their were often guest speakers that came and talked in small forums. Maybe in a psychology class or in the evenings. Is there anybody that you could put a bug in their ear that this would be a good topic. Maybe not just loss of a parent but any loss of a loved one.

Mary Linda,

I am taking an introduction to psychology class which may shed some light on the issue of communication, as well as grief. But I fear psychology will have a rather clinical, distant view of it and not be very sensitive to the topic; rather, it may study in from a professor or student perspective instead of the perspective of one who is experiencing grief.

Thank you for the tip, though, a school survey of some sort might do me good, because I know others, not just people grieving, have trouble communicating their true feelings in times of need.

[leeann]

Chai

I am of the opinion that I share what I want with whom I want when I am ready. If I'm with someone not so close to me and I'm having a "moment" I tend to keep it to myself.. unless.. they ask me. If they ask me.. I tell them what's on my mind, that I'm having a moment of missing my passed loved one etc.. I figure.. they asked.. so I'll answer.. briefly! If they didn't really want to know.. then they shouldn't have asked. lol

If I tell them though.. the onus is on me to expect some, perhaps, well meaning but hurtful platitudes from them. Sometimes I am up for that.. and other times I'm not.

If I'm having a moment and need someone close to me to talk to.. I would wait til I could call that someone to share my feelings with. But I don't just bring it up unless someone asks me. And that's what is comfortable for me. Doesn't mean that is what works for everyone.

leeann

[Chai]

Chai

I am of the opinion that I share what I want with whom I want when I am ready. If I'm with someone not so close to me and I'm having a "moment" I tend to keep it to myself.. unless.. they ask me. If they ask me.. I tell them what's on my mind, that I'm having a moment of missing my passed loved one etc.. I figure.. they asked.. so I'll answer.. briefly! If they didn't really want to know.. then they shouldn't have asked. lol

If I tell them though.. the onus is on me to expect some, perhaps, well meaning but hurtful platitudes from them. Sometimes I am up for that.. and other times I'm not.

If I'm having a moment and need someone close to me to talk to.. I would wait til I could call that someone to share my feelings with. But I don't just bring it up unless someone asks me. And that's what is comfortable for me. Doesn't mean that is what works for everyone.

leeann

Thank you for your response, Leann. I feel you bring up a good point, the issue of comfort. It is all about what we are comfortable with, and I guess it also what they are comfortable with, too. That is definitely an important factor.

Also yes, we may say something and then get a response that we just aren't up to...that is a precaution to think about when sharing thoughts. Hmm. Maybe I just haven't found someone to talk to yet, who feels just right...I suppose, I should perhaps experiment talking with different people and feel who feels "safe."

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

[MartyT]

Chai, dear, I don't know if you've read this article yet, but it offers some very helpful information on this topic: I Don't Care How Long It's Been -- Can We Talk about My Loved One? by Bob Baugher.

Also, I want to be sure that you are aware of this organization, National Students of AMF, whose mission is “to support all college students with an ailing or deceased loved one, empower all college students to fight back against terminal illness, and raise awareness about the needs of grieving college students . . . by developing chapters of Students of AMF on college campuses nationwide, providing information and support through our website, awarding leadership scholarships, distributing research grants, conducting conferences on college student bereavement, and holding fundraising events . . ."

Read more about AMF in this thread: Grief Support Group Helping College Students

[Chai]

Marty, that article you posted...thank you. That article is like...wow. pow. I love it! I really want to implement those plans now, because that is totally how I feel. I want to talk about my dad a bunch and hear stories about him and everything, because I'm already thinking about him a lot and just thinking to myself about him isn't the same when I'm bursting to talk about him!

Thank you very much.

Also, the AMF looks like a good program. I'm a little shy, but I think there must be other people who are bereaved here on campus, and it would be nice to have a physical group to meet up with. I will look into making a group here.

[carrieboo]

Chai, I feel exactly the same way...I want to talk about how wonderful my fiance was, but wonder if it would be a burden. Would be nice to get input from someone who isn't greiving to see how they would feel about this topic, but everyone is different. I tend to keep everything to myself, don't want to be a burden on people, yet I know the sadness builds up inside me. Its hard (for me) to know what to do or how to communicate these feelings, even with close friends. I've been struggling with this topic for some time now, it comforting that i'm not the only one having communication issues.

[Midnight]

Its coming to one year that dad died and I can finally say this without crying.

But people just dont understand what I am going through.

Because my dad was 96 and he lived a good life I am expected to not talk about him or to forget about him.

I have talked to people and they just slug it off and say well did you want him to live forever or what do you expect at that age. It just angers me to hear things like that.

It seems the only place that I can talk about dad is at my therapists office and he totally understands.

When I talk about dad I just beam with pride because he was such a great man.

I was his little princess as he liked to call me.

I miss him so much but he is apart of me and he will always be in my heart

[KathyG]

Over the past 14 months, I seem to have developed a kind of sixth sense that lets me know in advance who will feel comfortable talking about my husband, and who won't. Before this evolved, I was often hurt when people I thought I could open up to would cut me off or change the subject when the conversation turned to him. This even happened with my family. So I've let them know they can talk about Bill and I won't get hysterical or dissolve in tears.

[Chai]

Just yesterday, I had an experience with communication, and I totally blew my opportunity.

A friend of mine, let us call her Evelina, were attending a music concert for a class of mine. On the way there, we had some direction confusion, a few times on the way. Apparently her parents used to live in San Francisco, so she called up her dad a couple times to ask for directions help.

Anyway, somehow after one conversation with her dad, she started to talk about him. She talked about how she had many nicknames for him, some jokes they shared, and said a couple times, "I love my dad." It is evident how very affectionate her relationship with her dad is.

As it went on, I had this increasing feeling that my friend Evelina must have been encouraging me to talk about my dad, to reach out, to open up.

But inside, I just...I just couldn't do it. I was too afraid, or something. Inside I felt miserable, like, 'Why is she going on about her dad?" and "this isn't fair" and just sad, sad sad. Because I had the same sort of loving relationship with my dad.

But now in retrospect I am thinking...I should have spoken up. I could have said, "Yeah, my relationship with my dad was also like that, very positive, and like you, I would hug my dad a lot, and talk to him jokingly." Then, I could have gone on to share some memory about my dad.

Instead, I opted to be more cowardly, and just nodded, and said other things, and never mentioned my dad.

My friend Evelina is not oblivious. She didn't mean to insensitive. If she forgot (though I don't know how she could; she's a friend I hang out with a lot at school and knows me pretty well), I forgive her that. I think she was purposely giving me the opportunity to share something about my dad. (And here I've been wanting to talk to people about him, too!) What bugs me is how, instead of taking the opportunity to share something about my dad, I blew it, and just went on being sad in my mind.

I think I might go up to her, and sortof...say something, in gratefulness to her, for giving me that opportunity, and say, "You know, I was going to say..." in such a way that she won't feel crummy about having talked about her dad in front of me.

It's hard, though. For me to open up, even given this bright shining opportunity, I didn't take it. :/ And when people mention their dads, I can't help but be sad...

I shall try to grab more opportunities to communicate if they arise.

[mlg]

I hope you don't chicken out on taking this opportunity a second time. You're right it may have been she was opening the window for you. Now you have to fly in an seize the moment.

[leeann]

Mary Linda is right. Chai... go to her, talk to her....

The opportunity is still there... TAKE IT!

(((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))))

C'mon.. courage runs in your family!

XO

leeann

[Chai]

Leann, Mary Linda...thank you.

I still haven't taken the opportunity yet, but, I did speak to my counselor and decided to get my group of friends together to talk about, well, about how I don't feel normal, need extra support this semester, and would enjoy the opportunity to share memories or whatever about my dad.

I know that I shouldn't expect too much...and in their situation, I wouldn't know what to do or say. Honestly, their reaction was sortof what I had feared would happen: they all just sortof sat there, looking at me. Thanks, guys. Can't anyone give me a hug?

These are 3 friends of mine who don't like hugs. Two of them were brought up with not so great relations with their parents. Me, I was borught up in a very affectionate environment. But right then, talking to them, I really needed a hug. And no one gave me one. I feel frustrated, angry, and disappointed in these 3 friends of mine now.

Part of me wants to be understanding, but...I need a lot of nurture right now, and the fact that they couldn't give me a hug when I'm sitting there sad, well...what does that say, for how these 3 friends will support and listen to me this semester? Will they? I have 2 other friends I haven't talked to yet, but...I just...I'm disappointed in this initial reaction I got to sharing my "I need your support" thing with them...

I do still prefer, though, to try and communicate, instead of keeping it all to myself. So, I'll keep trying, and hopefully they can learn to feel okay with listening and not have to feel awkward, like they have to say anything in particular.

These are my 5 good friends at school. my other friends, ones I've known since childhood, were brought up in the same affectionate environment as me, and some of them knew my dad. I don't mean to sound very selfish, and I don't want to insult or condescend people who were not borught up in the same environment. That wouldn't be fair. But...I just, I feel sad, and I don't expect them to understand, and I know it's weird for them to suddenly have someone in the group who needs extra nurture, but...couldn't I have gotten one little hug??

[kath]

(((((((((Chai)))))))))

In response to your PM...God puts people in our path for a reason. Nothing is random. And I do think, you did indeed deserve a hug. My best support came from new friends on this journey. Even yesterday, someone (a perfect stranger) popped into my office, said "I hear you are a widow" and proceeded to telll me her story. I was dumbstruck, but didn't

even ask how she had heard. She is the first person I have met face to face that lost her husband at my age and had children the same age. Random? I don't think so. Keep reaching. You will find the person/persons that will listen and it will be worth the search.

I haven't dismissed my old friends. I just don't bring up certain things unless they ask. We still have fun together. But there are one or two others that I can talk to about anything and they can handle it.

Kath

[leeann]

Chai good idea to talk with them all.

I just had the thought that perhaps pointing them all to a few sites that may help them feel more comfortable with supporting you through this might make this a bit easier for all of you.

I mean call a spade a spade.... let them know right off that you know that this isn't easy and may be awkward for them. Let them know if things were reversed... you would have some trouble too knowing what to do or say too.

And then point them to some info to help them and you.

From a quick search... this page might be helpful:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/helping_grieving.htm

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/...if/griefsay.jsp

I'll bet Marty has a few more links & resources she can add here: Helping Someone Who's Grieving, http://www.griefhealing.com/helping-the-grieving.htm.

But I think maybe acknowledging that you know this is difficult for them at the outset may put them at ease even more.

And here's a (((((((Hug)))))))) I know it isn't the same as a real one... but thought you could use extra cyber ones anyway.

leeann

[MartyT]

Chai, dear, your experience with your friends illustrates how difficult it is to get the kind of support you need from those who've never gone through a significant loss themselves. Have you considered asking your counselor to start a support group for you, or to help put you in touch with others your age who may have lost a parent, too? You may be surprised to discover that there are others on your campus who are struggling with the death or terminal illness of a parent, as well ~ you just need a way to find one another. A while ago I mentioned the National Students of Ailing Mothers and Fathers Support Network (www.studentsofamf.org). What would you think about writing to its founder, David Fajgenbaum (david@studentsofamf.org), to ask how you might go about finding other bereaved students on your campus so you can get together with some of them? David is a fine young man ~ I have corresponded with him several times ~ so if you decide to write to him, feel free to say that I encouraged you to do so.

[Chai]

Thank you both for your helpful responses and links. Marty, I think a physical support group would help me a lot. It would help me feel a lot less lonely, and I could get hugs...my counselor has talked about support groups, but not on-campus, I would prefer on-campus because I don't drive. I think really trying to start a AMF on-campus would be the key thing to make a support group happen.

Also, leeann, thank you, those links are great, I sent one of them to my friends, so I think that will help make the situation a bit less awkward perhaps...

Still kinda mad at their reaction. Not sure if I can texpect a lot of support this semester from my friends at school. It hurts. I did say, when I spoke to them, some thing about how, I imagine it's difficult to know what to say, and I don't want to put them in an awkward position. But when their response was just to sit there, I felt very let-down. I hope sending them that link will help...

With Marty's suggestion though, either way (whether my school friends are supportive or whatever), hopefully I can find people on-campus who can relate. (Of course, I wish my school friends could be more sensitive, but...ah well).

Lastly I wanted to address Kath. Kath, thank you for your comforting words. It is tough to think of these friends not being, well...I don't know, not being able to handle me, when I really need friends, and when they are the only ones I have at school that I see a lot, etc. But I think you have a point - some people are the ones to talk to about it, and some aren't, and I will meet some new people that can talk to me about it (or listen), hopefully.

Your post is very encouraging. All of yours. thank you.

[marsha]

Chai - I agree with Kath - I've had people who were really just those I barely knew, come up to me and share their stories, about their loved ones' death and how they feel. I call them my human angels - because once we talk, it's like all the regular human crap falls by the wayside. And it's not just a widow, like I am - it's people who've lost their parent, their child - they share their experience. And I'm awed and grateful. You'll find this when you least expect it - you'll be open to it, Chai, especially now . We're all human, and although our experiences are different, we share the common thread of grief. It's weird how and when it happens - that connection. I stopped in the 7-11 today, and one of the ladies there asked me how I was doing, we talked, and she said (and she's only 30) that she was the only one left of her immediate family - parents, siblings, all died early. We talked for quite a while - she was one of those human angels - connecting with someone who has been through death and trauma, and still reaches out to connect with me. Some of those angels are right here - Peace, Marsha

[Chai]

Whew! I finally had some luck in this arena!

Sunday was terrible, and I ran out of kleenex when I really needed it. So I forced myself to get up and knock on a friend's door (not one of the 3 who I spoke to before) to ask for Kleenex. Immediately she invited me in and sat down, and really listened as I just...talked. About how disappointed I was i nthe other 3 friends' reactions, about wanting hugs, about not feeling like I could share, etc.

It was really great. She listened, and she said she was sorry to hear that I felt like I couldn't share, and to just go ahead and share (to summarize). It was really wonderful to find another person here at school (I've got one other friend) who is willing to listen to me in my grief talk. It feels good.

On another note...

I was realizing today something...that I don't express, even to myself, the reality of all this. I realized it because, at work I was telling my supervisor, "Yeah, I'm doing okay, sleeping better [true for the past couple nights, so tired I just conked], my mom's visiting this weekend [also true]." And I sounded fine.

But later, when I was alone, I realized...that was sortof, not true. I mean, I can't very well call myself 'okay,' just cause I had a couple decent nights of sleep. And here I was doing a lonely part of work [i work in a library, so I was checking book stuff amidst the shelves], and I was thinking of...a picture at the memorial.

Right before the cremation, my religion has this ceremony of mantras thing, and puts a flower garland on the body. So, at the memorial there was a picture of my dad...deceased. His face, with the flowers around it. I did look at it, because my mom said it didn't look bad. But for a while after, I totally shunned that picture, and didn't like seeing it. I forced my eyes to the pictures of my dad alive.

So here I was at work earlier today, and this picture of him popped into my head...the people who said, 'He looks like he's sleeping," um...no. No. I don't think so. It made me sad to think of that picture, because although he does look peaceful, well...it's just, not right, to me, to see him like that.

For some reason, I feel so much worse when I am alone, and sometimes okay when around other people, but only because there is this pressure to be. If I could just get OUT of my head the ideas I have about making other people comfortable, I think my grief process would be more...something.

My counselor was noting, how I tend to cater to others' needs. I think a lot about "what other people will think." argh! Need to stop!

So after work I was thinking how, what I had said to my supervisor, while externally correct, first of all, I didn't even really answer the question, 'How are you feeling?" I didn't include any feelings in my answer. And secondly, I'm obviously not doing well, really, when alone, the feelings are so much there, so to put on the "ok" face is a lie.

I don't want to lie. I fear though, that I am lying even to myself. I think even when I write in my journal, or think, sometimes I am not admitting all the pain, letting it all flow into me. Maybe I'm just too scared? I don't know. I feel very confused about myself. If I can't know my own thoughts and feelings, how do I...I don't know, how do I do anything? How do I grieve if I can't at least be honest with myself (what to speak of with other people)??

Any tips??

[MartyT]

So after work I was thinking how, what I had said to my supervisor, while externally correct, first of all, I didn't even really answer the question, 'How are you feeling?" I didn't include any feelings in my answer. And secondly, I'm obviously not doing well, really, when alone, the feelings are so much there, so to put on the "ok" face is a lie.

I don't want to lie. I fear though, that I am lying even to myself. I think even when I write in my journal, or think, sometimes I am not admitting all the pain, letting it all flow into me. Maybe I'm just too scared? unsure.gif I don't know. I feel very confused about myself. If I can't know my own thoughts and feelings, how do I...I don't know, how do I do anything? How do I grieve if I can't at least be honest with myself (what to speak of with other people)??

Any tips??

Chai, dear ~ I don't think I would characterize your response to your supervisor as "lying." Consider the setting and the context. I would expect that a part of you wants your boss to see you as competent and capable of functioning at work, even though you both know that you're also in mourning for your beloved father. That is the double bind that we mourners always find ourselves in ~ we're literally falling apart on the inside, and working like mad to present to the outside world that we're neither crazy nor incompetent, so they won't treat us any differently from any other employee or, heaven forbid, fire us because we cannot do the job. That is very difficult, indeed. So when you told your supervisor that you were okay, perhaps you were simply reassuring him (or her) ~ and yourself ~ that even though you're still very much feeling and dealing with this very significant loss in your life, you're still capable of doing the job that you're supposed to be doing in the library. You may not be up to par and at your best right now (as in "I'm just fine, thank you") but you're fairly certain that you'll get there eventually (as in "I'm okay.") Is that such a bad message to be sending to your boss?

As for "not admitting all the pain," I think that's a very healthy way to manage your grief! You can do your grief in pieces, you know – and you don’t have to do the work of it all right now and all at once! Just continue to do the things you already know how to do: writing, journaling, meditating, dreaming, reading, remembering – but with the intention of paying attention to your grief. Just as you are doing with your studies, set aside some time each day to pay attention to your sorrow at losing your beloved father. Experiment with it as you go along, and take it in manageable doses, say for a half-hour each evening, at the end of your day. Immerse yourself in memories: bring your dad to mind, talk to him in your head, remember him and recall or write down your favorite stories about him. Just for that specific time-frame, admit all your pain and let it flow, knowing that when your time is up, you are done with it for today, until your grieving time comes again tomorrow.

[leeann]

Oh Chai I agree wholeheartedly with Marty. And I see you..... judging.... your grief.

((((((Hugs)))))) That's not a good thing hon. So stop that right now! LOL (I'm SUCH a Mom.. forgive me.)

Let your grief just be ...whatever it is.

You shared more with your friend.. because you were comfortable sharing with her. I doubt you are as comfortable sharing with your supervisor at work. So no need to say anything other than what you did and "Thanks for asking." to your supervisor.

It wasn't a lie. It was the truth.. you are doing as ok as you can. That's a good message, I agree with Marty, to send to your boss. An excellent one actually. You were honest.. You are not "wonderful". You are "Ok" though and that's the truth. I have learned.. one can be in pain and still be "ok".

Not admitting ALL of the pain... Um.... I again agree with Marty. We admit as much as we can when we can and want to.

Sometimes.. we do our grief in doses that we can handle, at the times we can handle doing them.

And sometimes the doses are smaller than others and other times bigger than others.

Please do not judge yourself or your grief. I'm betting that is THE last thing your Dad would want you to do.

So great that you were indeed able to share with your friend! Great Job! I know you are hurting something awful.. but I think you are doing just great! And I'm thinking Dad is bursting with pride...

(((((Hugs))))))

leeann

[Chai]

Marty and Leeann, (((((((HUGS)))))), thank you so much! I love what you said! It makes me smile.

When you put, well, the way you both put it, I can see why it was good to tell my supervisor I was okay, and to take the pain of grief in small doses. My mother visited me this weekend and we had some good communication, I got to talk to my her a lot about my feelings and she helped me with some more guilt stuff (my brain keeps coming up with this junk!). So now I am more determined to share with certain people when I want to talk. I just have to go out there and do it!

It's so nice to have found people to share with, too, and I'm loving this site more and more as I find people to message and read everyone's loving messages done for Valentine's.

I really appreciate the reminder, Marty, to spend some time with my grief every day. I think I may have forgotten that one a little bit. But that is so important.

[proud2bmyself]

Interestingly enough, the last post in this thread was the day my Daddy passed away. I wouldn't normally find that "interesting" except that Chai was one of the first people whose story caught my attention because it was so similar to how I felt about my dad... Chai, when I first messaged you I mentioned that I was 20 years old and that my daddy passed away on Feb 17th of this year....

When Kathy wrote "God puts people in our path for a reason....My best support came from new friends on this journey. Even yesterday, someone (a perfect stranger) popped into my office, said "I hear you are a widow" and proceeded to telll me her story. I was dumbstruck, but didn't

even ask how she had heard. She is the first person I have met face to face that lost her husband at my age and had children the same age. Random? I don't think so. Keep reaching. You will find the person/persons that will listen and it will be worth the search," I was immediately reminded of something similar that happened to me

As I said, you were one of the first profiles whose story touched my heart, and I contacted you shortly after I read your story...and as I read your profile and then thought about it as I told my grandmother a few days later that I had met a girl online who was gong through a lot of the same things, I realized something very interesting....

You were born August 9th, 1988...I was born November 10th, 1988 (almost exactly 3 months apart to the day)

Your father passed away on November 17th 2008....My father passes away February 17th, 2009 (3 months apart to the day)

That means...that our fathers passed away on (nearly) the exact same day of our lives. I know now, why I found your story so touching. I think you were the person I was supposed to come across, that would inspire me, be someone I could share with, and help me to understand that I'm not alone. I completely love this thread you posted too, by the way, because it definitely encompasses the experience and the difficulties of talking to friends that just don't understand it very much, if at all. I am happy for you though, that on the day my father passed away, you had a positive experience to share. =) I hope that I will someday soon too. My friends, luckily, although they are not always perceptive of my sorrow, have bee as supportive as I could ask (all things considereed, you know being that they have no clue what to do or how i feel inside).

I too had considered starting up an AMF group here, because just within my small group of friends alone this year, we have had 3 people have deaths of close family members (grandparents, siblings, and parents). I think it could be a very helpful and successful program and I know, I would definitely benefit from having people to talk to like I do on here, but with the extra dividend of physical closeness and being able to hug one another. It's 1:44am here right now, and I just had to get on here and post something because tonight was "one of those nights." My day started slow and a little bummed, picked up, but then around 11pm I isolated myself from my friends and went off by myself and just cried for an hour or two. I wanted to go back to them and just cry on their shoulders and let them know how I feel, but I was afraid I would ruin their good night.

Hopefully it gets easier someday.

Thank you for being so open to sharing your stories and your thoughts.

~Courtney

[Chai]

Dear Courtney,

You're so sweet. I feel like you are a very tender, gentle person. Thank you so much for your post. I find the correlations between those dates, just...wow! It really does seem like something special is going on. I haven't been giving myself to grieve a lot lately, and I want to take care to give attention to it, so I'm really glad to see your post. It encourages me to open up more.

Feel free to message me, of course.

I'm glad to hear your friends are supportive and helping out as much as they can. That's good. I still have AMF on my mind, although doubts keep popping up, but I think in the long run I should do it. You, too! I think...I think it would help us both, the physical support.

Thank you for being open, for posting...

I really think it's amazing, the more I think about it, how our birth dates, and the days our dads passed away, correlates like that...! ...

I've been trying to put less "should"s to myself...it's hard. I keep doing it! My counselor spots it.

Just gotta keep trying.

- Chai