Guilt.

[Stacyines]

I'm leaving out of state to get out of everything that reminds me of Deric for the time being. I try not to think much about him because it hurts and my wounds are still recent. I say things outloud hoping he would hear me, yet I truly know he won't. I'm currently not seeing a psychologist since I'll be out of town. But I feel the need to vent out here.

Well, I feel extremely guilty. I went to see a good friend of mine yesterday to distract myself from being home and thinking about the usual. Well, my friend and I kissed. I didn't kiss him, nor did he. It just occurred, - of course we weren't exactly sober. But I paused anything before anything occurred. The guilt consumed me because he's only been gone for a couple of weeks. And my love for him is so strong, I felt like I betrayed Deric. I couldn't sleep the rest of the night. Not even with prescribed sleeping medication. Than again, I had been having nightmares of him shooting himself lately. Overall, I still feel guilt for his death. Even after he hid the fact he was taking bath salts. If I hadn't fought with him, he still would be here. As much as I pleaded with him not to do anything, it didn't work.

Guilt makes you - your own worst enemy, honestly.

[dave s]

Not a bad idea to get out of town, I still need to do that, sort of feeling strong enough to do now......Be carefull!

Kiss, is not the end of the world, you are human and confused, looking for some comfort,we are all confused right now, stop being so hard on yourself!!!

Y es guilt is an enemy serves no positive purpose! And how were you to have helped him.....when he wasnt honest with you as to what he was doing?

We are all to young to be going through this hell......but you so young, my heart is with you and hope you will continue to get some professional help, Please becarefull on your travels, during this time your not thinking clearly, and am concerned about an accident , your reaction times are slow.....

Best wishes!!! Dave

[HAP]

Dear Stacyines,

Guilt is a slippery emotion. We all feel it. And while we are under its influence we can do all kinds of things that are not good for us. I had a former student at the Pentagon on 9-11. He had gone outside for a cigarette. The plane hit the section of the building he was supposed to be in. He never got over the survivor guilt that engulfed him. A few weeks later he died in a car crash.

I feel guilty about my wife's death with some frequency. If only I had pushed harder to get her to the doctor--to get a second opinion--and if necessary a third. But in the logical part of my mind I know I did all she would allow me to do--and that, in any event, with the very little we know about the disease even now, even a much earlier diagnosis would not have influenced the final outcome very much. And would she have wanted to live for a decade knowing she had that sword hanging over her head? I don't know. I am never going to know.

Grief also demands comforting. A friend of mine wrote a paper on hugs many years ago in which she argued that physical contact is a thing we need to stay both physically and mentally healthy. And there is some evidence for that. Physical contact is a part of comforting another human being. There is a reason many people enter perhaps too quickly into physical relationships after the loss of a loved one. It is almost a cliche'. And that cliche is based on reality. Accept that kiss not as a token to inspire guilt but as a token of your human need for physical comfort in a time of enormous emotional distress. Frankly, I am amazed that kind of thing does not happen with even greater frequency than it does.

That you were not exactly sober at the time should actually give you cause to praise yourself for not letting things go any further under those circumstances. I did not have a single drink for the first six or seven months after my wife died. I have since allowed myself three drinks total--and always set things up so that I could not have more than that single drink. I only allowed myself those drinks because I was not craving them as a release. I have too many alcoholic relatives to be comfortable with drinking much under ideal circumstances. I knew that in the immediate aftermath of my wife's death that would be far too easy a trap to fall into. I guess what I am suggesting is that you avoid alcohol--or any other non-prescribed drug--at least until you feel you are no longer likely to crawl into the battle and hide there.

Be patient with yourself. Your grief is still too new for you to do much more than try to live minute by minute--sometimes second by second. Nine and a half months in I still have days where I live second to second. Those days are fewer now--but they are still there. Breathe. You have time enough. You will heal. But this is not television. It will not be over in a 40 minute hour. Be patient--both with yourself and others.

I know we have several of us said this to you before--but it bears repeating: your boyfriend's death was not your fault. I know that does not do much to take your pain away, but it does not change its essential truth. Don't let his death bring about yours as well.

I have a former student who lost a guy she told me before he died was her soulmate--that the way they saw each other was--she thought--very much the way my wife and I were. And then he died.She was a mess for a time. But gradually she came back to herself. With patience and some outside help, you will rediscover yourself as well. We all will.

Peace,

Harry

[Dwaynecg]

Dear Stacyines,

I agree with Harry, that even though you were under the influence at the time when this happened, That I praise you for not letting lings go any further, As a man's point of view they always want things to go further than you wanted. I am glad he had enough respect for you to stop, when you stopped.

Guilt is a very hard thing to live with. You boyfriends death had, nothing to do with you. Do you honestly think that this was the very first time he had thought or even tried to commit suicide. I do not think so. Those you do have thought about it many times before any have even tried to do it before. It was this time that HE WANTED YOU TO FEEL THE PAIN by this which in turn, was HIS WAY OF MAKING YOU FEEL THE GUILT. that was his plan all along. For you to hurt as much as possible. I know that this sounds hard for you to understand, but it is the truth.

Stacy take your time, let the feeling and emotions come out. I for one think it will do you good to get out of that environment for awhile.

I wish you the very best in life, Please do not let this be the end of yours as well, because if you do then he succeeded in his goal, not yours.

I am here for you any time you need a friend to talk with. If you want, send me a IM and I will send you my E-MAIL, and phone number.

Take Care, keep the Faith

Dwayne

[MartyT]

I appreciate your intentions, Dwayne, but I think we must be very careful in making assumptions about someone else's thoughts and feelings. The truth is that we do not know what was in the mind of this person at the time he took his own life, or whether he may have thought about suicide before, or what he may have wanted his fiance or anyone else to think or feel in the aftermath of this horrific act. I understand your intentions and I don't think you meant any harm, but I must caution you (and all of us) to refrain from drawing conclusions and making such statements with so much certainty, which in effect is passing judgment on someone we do not even know, and can be quite hurtful to the person you're trying to console.

[melina]

I agree with Marty. It's not a good idea to speculate on this kind of thing. How can we know? My brother took his own life four years ago, and it's still a mystery to all of us who loved him. We were left with a lot of questions and a lot of guilt. The guilt has subsided, luckily, but the questions remain.

I'm so sorry for you, Stacy. I lost my husband over a year ago, and it still hurts. You might want to consider seeing a grief counselor. It's helping me.

Melina

[HAP]

Dear Stacyines,

Actually, given how the mind of a suicidal person works, we can't know what or why he did what he did. There is a substantial chance he did not think this at all. I have studied suicide long enough to know that what people popularly believe is often not the case. Every suicide is different. And one induced by drug use is often even more outside the normal range because the person's perceptions are further skewed by the influences of the drug.

What we do know is that you have to deal with the reality of now--the reality of what you think and feel.

If you are feeling anger toward your boyfriend, that is fine. It is part of the process for most of us at some point. But it is not true for everyone. Some of us get angry at doctors, at our families, at ourselves, at some other convenient scapegoat instead. Every journey through grief is different because our experiences before we experience grief are different. In broad strokes, there are similarities. But in the day-to-day details our walk through this forest can be radically different.

The loneliness and the emptiness, I suspect, are the same for most of us. Our desire to avoid the things that remind us of those happier times also seems to be our common experience. I put off drives to various places for months because they would carry me too close to memories I was not yet ready to recall. There are still places I am not comfortable. And yet, every night I sleep in the bed we spent 21 years in, I live in the house we built together almost 17 years ago. And for all that I have moved the furniture around, I have only replaced that furniture that had worn out and that we had planned to replace soon anyway.

On the other hand, I have known people who gave away their furniture and replaced it all--but who seem to have had no difficulty returning to former haunts. For all that there are grief groups all over the world, for all the basic similarities of our circumstances, the way we deal with those things is entirely different for many of us. My father, for example, lost my mother barely six months before I lost Jane. His response to that loss has been very different from my own. He tried a grief group and could not stand it. He tried different grief counselors, but could not stand that either. Instead, he works on major projects around the house, goes out to dinner with my brothers and sisters, watches the news. He does all the things the books say he should not do. And yet he seems to be moving through his grief just as well as I am. Perhaps better. But how much of that has to do with my mother's long battle with Alzheimer's, how much of it has to do with his engineering background, how much of it has to do with his being 82 years old and in less than perfect health himself, I cannot say.

I think, sometimes, that we see our own paths in this land we have fallen into so clearly that we think our path is the same as everyone else's. But while there are similarities, our individual paths are distinctly our own. Yes, we all need to be reminded about self-care issues--eating, sleeping, drinking, exercising, re-establishing social connections; we all need to be reminded to be patient with ourselves and with others; we all need the hugs we are offered--both figurative and literal.

But we all need to constantly keep in mind that our grief is not identical to everyone else's--that our answers, while they may be good for us, may not be good for everyone--or anyone--else. I am at war with the disease that killed my wife. It is the right thing, perhaps, for me to do. But going into that war with me may well not be the path for you to get through your own process. Fighting the thing that took your spouse may or may not be the right thing for you, too. Maybe the way for you is in the theater, or in water colors, or in raising exotic animals. Maybe it is sitting in a corner and reading romance novels. There is no right way to do this except the right way for you.

One size fits all methods are as wrong in this process as they are in anything involving human emotional issues. No matter how well-meaning our prescriptions are, they are likely to be wrong when we know so little about each other. And joined as we all are in the commonality of our grief, it is easy to forget how little we truly know each other. Much as I have bared my soul here periodically, only two of you would recognize me in the supermarket. None of you know my faith, my political party, my upbringing, or really any of the things that have shaped me into the person I have become. No more do I know those things about you in the level of detail that would allow me to even think about being prescriptive beyond the issues of self-care and of patience and the importance of breathing now and again. I know just enough about human psychology that I can sound an alarm when someone's posts are sounding suicidal--but I can be no more certain you really are suicidal than a batter can be absolutely certain what pitch is coming next.

There is no one, ultimately, who can truly experience another person's life. There is no one who can walk our paths for us. There is no one who can tell us the right or the wrong way to grieve. Those of us who are in the throes of grief can, sometimes, offer advice, can always offer encouragement if we are not too lost in our own moments to notice. But we cannot make decisions for you any more than we can live your life for you. Otherwise the joys of your progress will not really be your joys.

Peace,

Harry

[kayc]

Stacyines,

I didn't know your intended, but I do know you are not responsible for his death. Regardless of what the events were or his thinking was, it was he that took his life, not you. This is probably the hardest thing you'll face in life, and you're doing it so young...I'm so sorry for all you are feeling and going through. Maybe it'll do you some good to get away for a while...are you going to be with relatives and people who care about you? I surely hope so.

I remarried after George died...in looking back I think I must have been nuts. I probably was. Grieving can be that way. It was a disaster, he was just a con man that saw and preyed on me, none of that matters any more. But I feel bad, like I dishonored George by having done so, only 1 1/2 years after his death, when George was my life, my heart and soul. But it wasn't because George didn't mean anything to me...quite the opposite, I was literally out of my mind with grief, frantic, scared, trying in some stupid way to rebuild my life that I had lost, ha, that didn't work! In the end, it would be George who understood me most of all and would be the last person to judge me or cast a stone, that is just how our love was, how our relationship was, we always understood each other and each other's motivation.

It was just three weeks before George died that he came to me and confessed that he'd been using Meth. Stupid. His heart was blocked, five arteries, it was amazing he'd been able to go to work every day, for he had a physically taxing job. No wonder he'd felt no energy. He was worried about losing his job, worried he wouldn't be able to keep up with the young whippersnappers. That's why he took the Meth. On his death bed he said, "now you know why I did what I did?" I said, "oh George, I always knew WHY you did what you did, I just didn't think it was the right answer." I felt no judgment, only compassion for this dear sweet man laying in that hospital bed...and that is the same compassion he would show me for my mistakes.

[Dwaynecg]

Dear Marty T,

Again you are right, I was wrong to assume anything about this man, and his thoughts. I have also been touched by suicide, One of my friends in my high school class shot himself, His death was not instant, and after he had done it, he realizes that, he did not want to die. I had talked with him for about 2 hours, just a half hour before he had done it. When we talked he told me that this was not the first time thinking or trying. He had cut his wrists before. Also he wanted to do it in front of his wife, because, he did not have a job, and they had big fights about that. He wanted her to feel his pain. I tried my very best to have him understand that this is not they way to handle the problem, that talking to each other, without this fighting is the best way to get to the bottom of his problems, and yes he was drinking when I got there and found him so upset. I only wish I could have been successful. But I could not control his mind, thoughts and actions. I had another friend, who was in my younger brothers class, brought a hand gun to my apartment, Nothing new to me I have been around firearms all my life. My father was a deputy sheriff for many years. But when Bruce can in he was all sweaty, and told me his intentions. He knew I tried my best to stop Ted, that he wanted me to talk to him, and I did. All night, we talked, about his live and feelings, and how my beliefs were and still are today, by morning, I had the pistol and had empted it. After a few weeks, I went to a library in Denver and check out a few book, on that subject, I read them all a couple of times, so I could get a better understanding on the subject. Why was I put into these people's live, at their moment of life or death. Because I can read people very well, I can covey my thoughts to them in away that they can understand. Bruce went on to become a bull rider, then got married and had 2 boys and a girl.

Bruce, had tried it before also, and thought about it many times, I do have some in site to they way their mind works in general.

Marty T, I am sorry if I came on to strong and done her more harm than good. That was not my intentions at all. I just do not want her to blame herself, for her boyfriends actions.

Marty, I think you are a wonderful counselor, You have helped me out so many times in my early days, weeks, and months, I just want to pay it forwards. I see I did not do a very good job of that this time.

You are the best Marty, Peace

Dwayne

[Stacyines]

Truth is, everyone's right. I'm attempting to move forward little by little.

And Dwayne - you're correct. This hadn't been his first thought. Bullying had been one of the root causes of Deric's suicidal thoughts prior to this. He was constantly bullied as a child in the most worst of ways imaginable. He recalled one night how a couple of kids told him to kill himself. To tell that to a child - a personality that's under development and forming. The innocent stage of our life is - simply horrible. Deric went through so much as a kid. It only became worst. Diabetes, molestation, and a coma. He was a victim of circumstances at such a young age. Of course all of that built up together later in life. And I was the only person he confessed everything to. He had told only two of his many best friends only parts of what he experienced, but not everything in total. And I told Deric what my 'demons' were as well. Not once did we judge each other or make comments. We loved each other unconditionally and used each other for support.

Substance abuse or alcohol is just a temporary stimulant. It's a cloak that disguises something in our lives were unable to speak of.

Suicide is a stage in life were you basically give in. It's rock bottom. You're either numb or empty unwillingly to move forward.

I attempted suicide at the age of 16 and failed. I was admitted into a adolescent mental evaluation facility for two weeks after the incident. Just like many others in life, - I was a victim of circumstances throughout my childhood. I moved ahead and forward. I have depression. Years ago and now. Three days after Deric's death, I was admitted back into a mental health facility because I was suicidal. But I spoke up and voluntarily checked in. As I studied my empty surroundings in the hospital room, crying into the deeper hole I had even fallen into. Something instantly sparked. I could never cause such pain to anyone else as he's caused me. I could not give up after all the obstacles I've overcome so far. If I was still alive now and going through all this - there had to be a reason. Instead of isolating myself from the other patients, I interacted with them and got to know their stories. Met a support group and spoke with them.

I discovered I wanted to be a suicide advocate not only for Deric, but for myself as well. It was in that point in my life that I realized I wanted to pursue psychology. As a child, you develop fears, anger, memories that only taint or form you in the future. & thats what I've experienced. What Deric experienced. What many people have. I want to help children. Where the center of the root starts. Where it affects us the most. At our innocence. And if I have the brains for it, I'll attempt to become a psychiatrist. Only time will tell.

I want to thank everyone. Your words are my motivation for along the journey. Even your stories posted on here. It's real. It's so nice to hear from people going through grief from a similar stand point instead of another condolence message. Don't get me wrong, I know people mean good about it. But, it just adds more to the hurting which were currently in process to heal.

- Much love to all.

[Dwaynecg]

Dear Stacyines,

This was so brave of you to write me this message for all to see. You are not alone with these thoughts. My wife Pauline always called me her angel sent by God to save her. She also had horrible things happen to her as a very small child and it continued with other members of her family. She tried twice to commit suicide, after she came home and found her husband in the back set of their car with the bosses wife doing it. She was very fragile. I knew this in a very short time after we met. I saw here as a tiny bird batter, beaten, and broken, I just wanted to pick her up in my hands and help her heal and told her everything will be alright, I am here for you now always and for ever. I wish I could do the same for you. Dig deep inside and find someone to get all those dark times in your life out. Let them be ridden from your soul, do not carry them around inside to fester.

I am so happy that I could help you and give you hope again. Life is a true gift from God. I am so proud of you for checking yourself into a place where you could get the help you need. It is a very positive sign that you now want to be an advocate on behalf of all the bullied children, and try to get them to see the light so they do not make the same choice in taking their live. Just this week another boy with muscular dystrophy at age 11 took his own live after being bullied, This is a horrible problem we have in our society today. IT MUST STOP. When I was in middle school, of course being raised in the mountains of Colorado, it was all the same 2 buildings 1-12, well we had gotten a new janitor, that had a daughter, who was mentally handicapped. One day I saw 4 boys had her on the marry-go-round, spinning it faster and faster. She was hanging on for dear life, crying and screaming. I ran over and stopped it. Got her off and took her to her father. Then over the next couple days I caught each and everyone of those boys, and a couple, were much bigger than I, but that did not have my determination and will, and madness, about what they had done to her. And I gave each one a betting. Their faces, were bloodied and black and blue eyes, sure I took some shots as well. But they never bother her again.

Stacy you know I took a lot of heat for my posting to you, from different people. But what I said to you was out of kindness from my heart, to help you understand, what may have been on his mind. Now you opened up to me with the truth, and your problems with life. I will fight with you and for you in whatever way I can. You are to young to carry this load alone through the rest of you life. Please do not be afraid to reach out to me if you want. I am glad to hear your kind words and that you recognize, that you needed help also, and seek it out.

It took many of years for me talking with Pauline to get all those bad memories of her childhood out, to make her whole again. I know I helped her, She called me one day at work around 1994 and told me she now remembered everything that had happened to her, she was crying, I left work right away and came home to hold that little broken bird, that I helped heal from the inside out. Never to have those nightmares again. It was like she was born again in her life. I am very proud that I would never give up on her. After she was sent by God to me, and was the love of my life, soul mate forever inter twined as one. So what hurt her hurt me as well.

Stacy, I will pray for you today, for God to rid you of those demons you life with, and that you will help to save the lives of thousands, from this day forward.

God Bless,

Dwayne

[kayc]

Stacyines,

I think it'd be great if you could use what you've been through to help or prevent others from choosing a self-destructive path. Sometimes our experiences make us feel we are without hope, but the truth is, death is the one permanent robber of hope. We have to, therefore, cling to life and the hope that eventually things will be better, and we have to continue to work towards that goal, even when the answer doesn't seem to be in plain sight...that is, after all, what proceeding on faith is.