Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[Pollara]

It is actions that count and I don't know how you respond to these words, but it seems to me that he is trying to see whether you still have feelings for him

[plum]

Hi everyone,

Hope you guys are well, I been away and now back from my holidays. I had a fantastic time, and I think holiday was just what I needed!!

to cut long story short, we had some serious talk when i was away, and I guess I tried to break up and he asked for more time. Says he still gets upset and cries most days. As I feel bad about what he is going through, I let him know that I will give him more time, however that I can't wait for him forever. But in my mind I'm already making plans for life without him. And yes, I do want to date other people. But I do feel like I do need to respect the fact he has asked for more time. Now I guess it's balancing between the two. Maybe I will date other ppl while I wait for him, I don't know. I haven't quiet decided.

But travelling around made me realize, the world is so big and that there is no 'ONE' person that is perfect for you. and that life is what you make of it. So I'm going to stop being so caught up on 'one' person, and open up my eyes and mind to new possibilities. : )

[Pollara]

Oh that is great news Plum! seems like everyone is moving on. I am happy that you had great holidays!

As far as your guy is concerned, he seems that he is not sure yet but he doesn't want you out of his life but he cannot do anything about it.

I was reading some articles about complicated grief and I am wondering, how long after the loss someone can be categorized as having complicated grief? I read in an article that the intense period is something close to 6 months more or less.

My ex has already passed the 4 months and things seems to get worse (since I heard that he also had panic attacks). He doesn't speak to me via chat and I don't want to bother him, but i was wondering, if this thing keeps on, should I talk to him and trying to convince him to see a specialist?

[kayc]

Plum, am glad for you!

Pollara, I don't know, you could suggest it but he may have to come to that assessment on his own. Some balk at seeing someone and others take to it readily. I saw a grief counselor after George died, living in a small rural community there isn't much choice and I did NOT hit it off with mine, but many many others have found them very helpful and I'd recommend trying it.

You may be right about Jim but in my mind I moved on long ago and am satisfied being "friends"...I lost my trust of him and it's just not the same, although I still have feelings for him. I feel like it's too damaged, and although it could be fixed, I think I know him well enough to know he would not do what it would take so what's the point of going there. I'm used to being on my own and have reconciled myself to that...barring a miracle meeting someone and I don't hold out hopes for that. I think I was very fortunate having had it once with George and I'll call it good.

[Pollara]

I doubt he will do it. Because the last time we spoke and he told me that he is in total loss and he doesn't know anything I told him if he wants to see an expert, since his sister is seeing someone and he told me no and thanks for caring. Then I told him if he wanted to suggest him some books and he also told me no. I guess that he is not ready to move on from his grief yet although he says that he wants and that he knows that he won't be like that all his life he doesn't do anything about it.

[kayc]

Some people think to hold onto the pain is to hang onto the loved one an to allow themselves to experience any joy removes them further from the one they lost. It takes them a while to reach the point where they can give themselves permission to smile or live again. It takes a while to realize that you can carry the loved one inside of you and it doesn't dishonor them to continue to experience life.

[Pollara]

Yes I have read about it, but I actually don't know in what kind of situation he is in since he didn't talk to me about it. The only thing I know is that he knows that this situation will not last forever and that he knows to "get rid of it". But he doesn't do anything about. I mean in theory what he is thinking is right but in practice he doesn't do anything about it. He said that he will go to the gym and start searching for a job but as I hear from our common friends he just doesn't do anything. Fortunately at least he is going out with them. I think that he wants to do things in order to focus in something else, but he just can't started himself. if he is alone if you get what I mean. I mean it is easy to go out because he will be with friends etc but he is "bored" of going to the gym himself or starting searching for a new job.

I don't know whether panic attacks are good during grieving or not. I read somewhere that they usually happen when the person wants to escape from this situation but he feels unable to do it.

I don't know but it really saddens me to see him in such a condition. I was thinking to talk to him at sometime if he keeps on like that. I mean if he is like that after two months and ask him what exactly feels. I don't know. On the one hand I really don't want to be a burden to him and the only thing that I want is to help him as I would do with any friend of mine, but on the other hand I am hesitating since last time we spoke was to tell him that I think the reason that he break off with me was other than the one he told me and he might think me as a burden or that I will bring the relationship to the table or something. Well I can try it.

[plum]

Hi Pollara,

it seems like ur guy is going through what my guy is going through..

He tells me today that he doesn't know if he will ever be happy again. This is a change from few weeks ago when he said that he believes that he will be happy again.

Sounds like he is getting worse rather than better. : (

I asked if he wanted to go see a counsellor. He says he doesn't want to. I asked him if he has read the book I sent him on grief. He also says he doesn't want to.

*SIGH*

I agree Pollara, it seems like they know what kind of situation they're in yet they don't want to do anything to get themselves out. They just want to 'wallow' in their grief.

And I guess nothing or no one will help them if they don't want to help themselves. I hope that they will pick themselves up soon and realize that although life can give u lemons u can also make lemonade out of it!!

so for now i'm throwing up my hands up in the air so to speak, and hope that they will choose to be happy again cuz life's all about what you make of it

You can't help someone that doesn't wanna be helped...

PS, i totally know what you mean Pollara about how it saddens you. That's exactly how I feel.....

[plum]

Oh and my guy also had panic attacks when his mum was sick... I don't think you can say whether it's a good or bad thing. Think it just happens to some and doesn't to others....

[Pollara]

Yeah it sounds to me like totally similar cases. And even if he broke up with me, he told to one of our common friends that time will tell whether we will be again or not in the future. So it is kind of similar to before, that he just rushed to get to a decision so as not to have extra pressure but he is in a total loss like your guy. Probably what he told about my immaturity was just excuses but in any case, I don't care about it. But seeing that he is getting worse I think that this situation will keep on for years. I thought that at least someone has some bright moments or something but he is getting worse. More depressed than ever. And to think that he is going out with his friends, he is going on trips. I mean he is kind of trying. OK this is not real activities that you will fell into a routine and start to forget, like working, but they are kind of activities. I am starting to afraid that he might even have suicidal tendencies. I hope not.

But I agree, subconsciously I think that they don't actually want to move on to the next stage. And yes they are the same, they don't want counselor, they don't want to read books, but they say that they want to get rid of it. How you can get rid of something if you don't do nothing by yourself?

[kayc]

I can sure see where you could get panic attacks grieving, but I can't see how it could be viewed as a good thing, just something that happens.

You're right that they need to be the one responsible for making their life better. You can be there as a friend, I can't see how that could be anything but support/help. I would not bring up relationship issues at all at this point.

[Pollara]

I can sure see where you could get panic attacks grieving, but I can't see how it could be viewed as a good thing, just something that happens.

You're right that they need to be the one responsible for making their life better. You can be there as a friend, I can't see how that could be anything but support/help. I would not bring up relationship issues at all at this point.

not a good thing the time that happens, but I read something that it happens the time you realize that something should be done about it. So in this essence, isn't realization a good thing? I wonder...

Well yes I want to be support but since he was the one who break it up and he knows that I still care, in his mind he might think me as a burden. That I help him in order to be back together or something. I don't know how they think. but in any case, if I reappear 2 months after I cannot think but that it would be ok

[kayc]

I was thinking last night how much things have changed. I needed to get off the phone, get some things done, so said goodbye...Jim seems startled...a few years ago it might have been him that wanted off, I'm not sure he knew how to handle that realization but it was a startling revelation nonetheless.

There will come a time, perhaps already has, when your feelings will change, and perhaps he'll come to and wish everything was the same, but it won't be. That is part of the risk they take when they break up with us, whatever their reasons.

[Pollara]

well in my case, not in this specific one, but I mean on my exes case it happens like that. But I thought that this is the game that life "plays" to us. I mean when you want someone and need him and cry over him etc you cannot have him. And then when you have move on, he is there and asking for your attention. I don't know why it happens but it does.

Well my "plan" is not to contact him, but if I hear that he is getting worse maybe I will try to ask him how is he doing etc and if he shows me that he doesn't want me to be there either as a friend I will just let him die. No I didn't say that in a hostile manner or whatever, but the only thing I can do for someone that we spend some time together and I would have done it for every friend of mine, was trying to support them. But if someones not only doesn't accept my help but s/he is irritated over it, then cry me a river.

I am just editing this post to add that yesterday I was talking to one of my psychologist friends and there was another psychologist guy with her at that time we were talking and as he heard the matter he told me that my ex should ask the help of an expert because panic attacks are a symptom that his body tells him that he cannot handle the pressure anymore.

And then he also mentioned something else: that my only role in the whole case should only be supportive and nothing else, because if I try to act as a healer, when my "service" will be over, healer will be thrown away. I have never thought of it like that, but it is true that I know a lot of cases like that. Not grieving specifically related. But for instance, when someone act as a healer to someone that wants to forget a breaking up. Well in this way, maybe it might be better that I am not related to his depression (I don't mean it as being the subject of his depression rather than being the healer of it).

And something happier, my work asked me if I want to extend my contract for another 6 months so I am thinking over it, cause one of the basic reasons that I wanted to return to my country to be with my ex and of course my friends. But of course my friends won't make a fuss if I delay my returning and we are not together with my ex, I cannot see a reason of telling no.

[plum]

Hi Pollara,

oh that is great about your work!!!

So I think we're done. I just have had enough. I asked if he had any plans to visit me in the next few months. As I haven't seen him since the funeral.

Seems like the idea of even spending the weekend with me is so abhorent and too much for him. After all the things I've done for him and the s*** I put up with in return for nothing, when i ask for something so small and trivial like him visit me in next few months oh no that's too much.

I said that I can't wait for someone that doesn't want to plan a future with me. anyway to cut long story short, I think we've both decided that it's for the best that I move on cuz I deserve better. He acknowledges that he isn't doing so well yet refuses help and I've done all I can.

Anyway thanks for all your help. I don't know if I'll be popping in as often as I feel like I don't really have much left to say on this matter.

I have no regrets as I did the best I can, and I've pretty much come to a point where I don't really care if we're together or not. So I might as well be free to see other people.

I'm fine also, I think I've had time to process everything and mourn the relationship. It's time to let go. I dont think I want to try again with him if and when he comes around as it'll be too late. Maybe this is blessing in disguise and there is someone out there who's better for me.

: )

[kayc]

Plum

I'm sorry for all you and Pollara have been through, yet I know you're right and undoubtedly you'll be better off, even as I am. I cried myself to sleep for months, and I'll never forget the last time he made me cry, it was about three months after his mom died, and he was doing his emotionally yanking me around again and I cried all the way home from work (50 miles) and then determined that was the LAST time I'd cry over him again! I'm pretty stubborn. Mostly it's just making my mind up to something but once it's made, I'm okay. I felt the same way, I felt it wasn't unreasonable to expect to see him once a week for an hour, I guess to him it was. I just don't see how you can go forward and build a relationship if you never see each other.

[Pollara]

Plum you did your best and you waited so much time. If he doesn't needs any kind of help how can you provide it? You were very patient, if you think that you were so many years together. I definitely wouldn't and not a lot of other women could have done that. And you didn't asked for something irrational and at the end of the day I wonder how can they do everything with their friends and not with us, like we are not even friends but complete strangers. Anyway I am glad you moved on and it was nice meeting you because it is difficult to find people that understand the situation.

At least if he comes back, just for the fun of the thing, please come with an update! I hope to be happy with your life from now on. And on the other hand it is good that at least you learn it before you got married or something.

[plum]

Thanks guys!!

soo,, it seems that it wasn't like THE END (close the book) like I thought. He mentioned that he is not coping very well and how he thought he would feel better with time but that it doesn't seem to be improving. I did a big spill about how if you had a headache, that u would take some pain killers. or if you had a really painful condition then you would try everything that you could to make it better. So why is it any different when it comes to grief? there is no rule that says you must get through it alone without seeking help.

And how I wanted to stand by him but that I can't do that if he doesn't wanna help himself, because it hurts me to watch someone that you love suffer. and how he seems to just have 'given' up without even trying.

anyway I asked him few days ago if he had read the book I sent him and he said that 'he didn't want to'. but he texted today and said that he will try to read the book.

So maybe some of my lecturing has gotten through to him?

At this stage I'm not concerned about our relationship. But I just want him to get better/feel better. I like to think the book is the first step and hopefully he will eventually agree to counselling. Then at least we have tried all we avenues. Does that change anything? I'm not sure. I'm still gona continue building a future that doesn't include him... and continue to see if there is another mr right for me out there.

[kayc]

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and either way it goes, you will be okay in the end. I hope for his sake he does seek help, but I also know that's something he has to decide for himself. Sometimes when you're in the middle of grief, it's hard to see things that might be obvious to everyone else.

[Pollara]

Well at least Plum he seems that he doesn't want to end everything between you two but he cannot do anything about it. Well I think that it is more difficult to convince a guy to seek the help of an expert rather than a woman. When I told my ex that he should see a therapist he told me: no I have friends. He believes that if he says how he feels to his friends (apparently it seems that I wasn't a friend but anyway), it is the same as going to a counselor.

I wonder, does his sister who is seeing a specialist tell him anything or he hides these facts even from her? But it surprises me that as the months pass they are getting more and more worse. I wonder, what is a reasonable amount of waiting in order to speak to him and see how he is doing?

[kayc]

I think it's up to us to set the "reasonable period of time" (waiting), that will vary with each individual. Whether two months or a year, it's up to us.

[plum]

Thanks kayc : )

Yeah I agree Pollara, guys definitely are more resistant to any kind of help as they probably feel like as a man they should be able to get through things on their own without needing anyone to help them. Exactly the reason why rates of suicide are higher in males. Cuz they dont seek help when they should.

like you said I don't think my guy is ready to let go yet. He is displaying classic signs of depression currently. (Grief related one anyway) Lack of motivation, loss of energy, feeling tired, feeling overwhelmed. He is constantly saying how he has so many things to do yet when I ask him exactly what he needs to do he is unable to tell me exactly what things keep him so busy.

I guess knowing that he is depressed makes it harder for me to just walk away completely.. As he doesnt seem to be ready to let go of 'us' yet, I worry that it'll make things worse for him.

It's like we've come in a full circle. Initially he wasn't sure if we should continue and I was the one that wanted to continue, but now I'm ready to leave and seems like he isn't ready to let go.

Pollara, I don't know if there is a 'right' amount of time to wait to speak to ur ex. If you're concerned about him, then I think you should try to contact him and check on him. You have nothing to lose.

[Pollara]

yes Plum! The same thing is with my ex. He told me that he was very stressed because of all the things he had to do and that he didn't afford any other burdens, but when I asked him he didn't say anything that it is so hard to do. So I guess everything for them are regarded as pressure. Even the slightest thing.

In some of our friends he told that he is feeling tired and that he prefers staying home.

my psychologist friend told me that when men have depression are feeling very stressed while it is more of an emotional breakdown for women. That men don't want to seek help while women do so, but on the other hand that women are more prone to commit suicide when they suffer from depression than men.!

Well the thing with me is that I don't want him to feel me as an extra burden that I am here and waiting something for him (it might be possible you never know) and the other thing is that I don't want to be friendzoned at the end of the day.

[kayc]

Good point, Plum! (have nothing to lose)

It is the oddest thing. Jim has been calling me "Baby" lately...I doubt it's just out of habit as it's nearly three years since he broke up with me. Perhaps it's his way of having a hard time letting go? Even though he's the one that did the breaking up? It can be so confusing, I just don't let myself go there. Seriously!

[plum]

Hmm I see why you might be worried Pollara.

But why worry about the what ifs? If he feels like you asking how he is doing is extra burden; that's his problem. If he feels like your waiting for him; once again his problem

Cuz the truth of the matter is, you're none of those.

As for you being worried about being friendzoned? What is wrong with that thou? Cuz it does sound like maybe you're holding out hope of getting back together then?

(Not that there is anything wrong with that) :

I guess it depends if he does want you there as a friend or not at all?

I'm currently in the thinking of stuff them, I'll do what I want and what I feel like. : )

I'm sick of walking around in egg-shells and trying to second guess what they'll think.

Like today I said to my guy that he is depressed. I wasn't sure how he would take it,and thought oh maybe he will get angry or annoyed. but then thought, hey, what the heck, he is, and I'm not going to not just 'say' something for fear of upsetting him when it's the truth!!

He didn't really admit to it or deny it but at least it was out there.

Currently I'm living by the motto do what makes you happy! my friend told me a quote of there's 7 billion people in the world. Don't let one person ruin your day.

: )