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Should I Stay Or Should I Go?


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im just reading the book now and it's starting to make me feel like that maybe I am being a doormat by waiting around? That maybe I need put my foot down and maybe make him realize that I have other options and that I won't be waiting around forever? Make him come after kind of thing?

Maybe this book doesn't apply in our situation?

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Yeah to be honest I don't think it applies. In fact I believe that he will end it up sooner if you tell him something like that. I believe that my boyfriend hadn't put any thought on our situation until I asked him if he wants to end it and he doesn't tell me. And although I told him to let it go and don't make any decision until I 'll be there, he got into the frame of thinking of taking a decision and he rushed over it in a way that he cannot deal with it right now so let it go.

DML it is a book called why men love bitches.

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I know ur probably feeling really sad that he decided to break up with u but do u also feel sense of relief? That now u can finally make fresh start and move on with ur life?

Today I'm having a bad day and feel like I wouldn't even care if he decided to break up.

I hate the feeling of like he has all the power in the relationship and what the book describes as 'btches' is what I was like with him in our relationship. But now I feel like I've changed to a doormat

I'm so frustrated with this while situation and in turn it makes me angry at him.. And the prospect of it going on for how many more months like this is really depressing. Whereas if we were to end it now at least it will be tough initially but I can move on with my life.

I hate feeling like this :(. Like some desperate girl that I know I'm not. He should be grateful and thankful to have me not make me feel like he is taking me for granted

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Well the only relief I feel is that I don't have to bother on wondering. But I guess it is still the beginning but I cannot think of going out with anyone other at this time. And this is worst. I would prefer to be like these girls that forget the guy by replacing him with other guy. But then again I am thinking that if he told me this after I had returned to my country who knows it might even be worse because I was waiting for so many months. Plum when I was waiting the whole time there were days like that

that I thought OK if we break up I don't mind. But it seemed that I actually minded it. But I guess by autumn that I have to return to my country I will be better for sure while if the breaking up had happened then, I will have added more months to my wondering and this stressful feeling. But at this time everything seems so long. Well it might also be the fact that I have not a lot of friends here and phone and things dont help. And also that all my good friends left for holidays so I don't have a lot of things to do.

The fun thing is that after he announced his decision he asked me: what do you think about it?Because you know this is my decision but I am not alone in this relationship. And I was thinking: What the hell? OK If I tell you that I disagree what is going to change? Why does he ask me something like that?

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that is odd how he asked what u thought about it! what did u tell him? maybe he wasn't sure if he was making the right decision and wanted to hear what u thought? sounds like he actually cares about how u feels. not that it changes anything.

men suck

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I asked him why you ask me something like that since you already make up your mind? And he told me that he is not alone in this relationship although that he took his decision. I answered that: "You already know my opinion. I wouldn't mind on waiting and I thought it would have been better this way because I feel that you are not in a position to make any decisions at all. But since you made a decision I cannot only but respect it. I cannot answer to change your mind or something. Heal yourself and if you feel better and if I am still around we might see things again". and he told me yeah I should first heal myself because I don't know how this is going to last. I know it won't last forever but at this time I don't know how and it is unfair towards you to have this apathy.

I don't know maybe he was waiting another attitude from me? But I am like this. Even if I am hurt I am very proud to say it to someone that he is hurting me. but he knows that I am like that so I still wonder why he asked. well maybe he still had some doubts but what did he expect from me? To erase them? To tell him, oh you are making a wrong decision? or to tell them yes that is for better? Yeah and then they say that women are complicated

At least the fact that he knows that he won't grieve for all his life is a step towards reality. Because most people at their grieving stage think that this is never going to end.

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i think u handled that with a lot of grace and tact Pollara. I think what you said was the best answer u could've given him.

Finished reading the book! It was very good read! thanks again.

But now I'm confused. Currently I feel like saying to my guy 'how ur treating me is crap, and I won't put up with it, and I deserve better. You know where to find me, in the meantime I'm going to move on with my life. goodbye'?!!!

i won't do anything drastic yet, i'll sleep on it and see how I feel about it. I have heard from him daily over the wknd and so I at least expected him to say 'goodnite' but seems like it's too much of an effort. I feel like telling him about catching up with my ex last week. He doesn't get jealous normally and I don't expect he will care too much but I'm starting to feel like he is taking me for granted again. I sent him a sweet message this morning but now I'm regretting it. If he isn't gona treat me with kindness and care then he doesn't deserve that back from me.

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Well one friend of mine that she had grieved over the past she told me that the fact that he made up a decision doesn't mean that he is sure about it but at that time he thinks that this might be the best for the two of us. And he rushed on his decision when I asked him if he had come to a decision and he avoids to tell me. That if I hadn't asked him he would't have start to think over it. But that is the given situation so I didn't have a lot to add on the subject. His ex was totally opposite than me and she would have probably beg to stay together and who knows, maybe he was expecting this kind of reaction from me too, that is why he asked me in order to be more kind. But I am not that kind of a girl to beg for someone who says that he doesn't want to be together. I think I made it clear that if he wants to be together he can come and tell me. he is not a baby anyway

Well it's not like he is taking you for granted and he doesn't do it on purpose. Don't try to apply normal rules in this situation, But in my opinion if you want to say something to him since you suggest to put everything on pause it will be something like: Although I know it is difficult for you to cope with this situation, it is also very difficult for me because no matter how you tell me that it has nothing to do with me. So in order to protect myself and what left for our relationship I decided to move on with my life and if you feel better you know where to find me". But you should have in mind that this is like breaking up on your part and I don't know whether you are prepared for it.

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Well from the sounds of things I don't think u pressure him any way to make a decision. But maybe he pressured himself?

Yeah I know that I'm not suppose to take it personally or anything like that...

And I guess I do have the option of telling him that I'm moving on with my life but the tricky thing is that I did that once before already and broke his heart... :(. And I know that he still has trust issues stemming from that so part of me feels like that is not an option..

I feel like I'm in a constant conflict between trying to convince him the yes he is the one I want and I won't leave him this time versus feeling like he is taking me for granted and not appreciating me. It is a bad combination as they're complete

Opposites!!

Ru feeling bit better today pollara?

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No what my friend meant wasn't that I added pressure but that until then he was in uncertainty and he hadn't put any effort on it. But when I told him leave it until autumn and we will see he might thought that noone guarantees that he will feel better at autumn and since he cannot change his behavior now why to postpone things until then? He might even have felt commit to me that he had me all these months waiting and I guess he doesn't want such a thing.

Well in the morning when I woke up I was worse, because I thought that he didn't care enough for me, and that his decision was just an excuse (I don't want to hold you waiting). But everyone says me that it wasn't an excuse. And then one friend of mine reminded me that when his mother diagnosed with the 2nd metastasis he told his girlfriend (my boyfriend told his ex girlfriend): let's solve our problems outside of the relationship and they were apart for some months. I didn't remember that but for me hopes are working the total opposite when it comes to break ups. Because for some strange reason I assure myself ok it isn't over just focus on yourself now and when he comes you will be together. I said something like that to myself when my 6 years bf broke up with me (because they were actually some hopes back then) and in the meantime, while I was suppose to wait for him and do other things I totally forgot any possibility of getting us together and now I can only see him as a friend of mine.

no Plum, I don't think he is taking you for granted and taking into account your past i think it is the opposite.But I don't know how long you can keep on this. I mean, if it wasn't to return back to my country I would have probably initiate the breaking up, cause I don't see him moving any time soon with you. I don't remember, but when he was supposed to move?

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Pollara,

I agree with everything your psychologist friend told you. I think your "friends" don't get it, not at all. If it happened to them, they'd feel differently. Just because you anticipate that something might happen, doesn't cushion the blow when it comes...you hope against hope that it might not come to pass and when you finally hear the words, the finality hits...it's like having a spouse with cancer and you anticipate the death but hope/pray for a miracle, and then when they pass the finality sinks in that everything has changed and you won't see/talk to them in this world again. For someone to react like, "Well you KNEW this was coming, move on already!" would be very inappropriate, and yet believe it or not, people DO respond like that, way too often. I find people's lack of appropriate response and empathy based on their ignorance...they simply do not know what it's like to grieve in this way and until/unless they do, they will not understand or change their response. Some people respond better because their ability to empathize is better, they are able to put themselves in your shoes and imagine how you might feel. Too many people don't seem able to do that.

I am sorry, Pollara, because I do know how hard this is. I also know you will be okay, I can tell because in the things I have read here, I've come to know you as a very strong person, one who makes her mind up, one who survives, one who thinks, one who doesn't let her emotions alone rule her but thinks with her head as well, one who is balanced, empathetic, a good head on her shoulders. You have indeed done amazingly well. In the days to come, their may be pain to get through, tears to cry, don't try to hold them back, cry them, they are healing. It is good you will concentrate on your hobbies and I hope your friends hurry back from their holidays so you won't be alone.

And thanks for the book, I haven't started it yet, but it will be interesting.

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Thank you for all the consoling words. I know that I will be better in the future just need to be patient. But it is hard to be at home because in this country that I am staying temporarily, he was the only one who came visited me and everything remind me of him. Also this country in general, because when I first came I was alone and didn't know anyone and he was the one that he was keeping me company etc. And it is fun that he told me: this trip really helped me and made me feel better. I wonder how can he think that since he became more distant after the trip. Maybe these were just consoling words but I didn't ask his option. My ex boyfriend says that maybe after the trip he became more distant because he returned back to the grief. I really don't know how can he think that I helped him by this trip and then breaks up with me.

This morning I was so mad at him that he didn't wait until I return to make his decision, but I am thinking that it will be worse to wait until then and then tell me that he cannot have me waiting. I would have lost more months of my life. I am thinking that in his mind he found this as the best solution since he couldn't do anything more at that time and didn't have any idea when he would. My psychologist friends tell me that it isn't that he made this decision based on what he feels about me and what he wants, but he thought of me in a way: "Oh I have treat her really unfair all this time and she was very patient and kind towards me. But at this time I cannot spend energy on her and also I don't know where this grief will get over and I have all these things press on me. So why to keep her waiting while she can do other things?". According to them, he didn't end up on this decision because he doesn't want me in his life in general or because he decided to start a new life without me, but because he cannot have it on him to give me something right now and he doesn't want me to get hurt waiting (if only he knew). That is why he asked me what is my opinion, because -according to them- he still is not in the right state of mind to make a decision like that, but he sees it as the best solution right now. And that is why -again according to them- when I told him that when you feel better and if you feel that we can be together again you can tell me and if I am still available we can see it again, he didn't tell me something like: no we are never going to be back again because he is still uncertain but doesn't want to commit me.

Then I am wondering if he will meet another girl when he is ready to go out of grief and thinks that she was the one that helped him, but my psychologists friends don't see that very possible since a new relationship needs effort and he didn't have the courage to put effort on me that i didn't ask for anything. But who knows

Although I believe that this breaking up is permanent, since he told me that all this time that we weren't talking that much he wasn't that sure of us breaking up, I guess now he is. But, (here comes the tricky part), when I will return to my country, we have a lot of common friends and go out all together. I wonder what we will do at that time. Hide from each other? Try to pretend that I am ok with him being as a friend around while I am not?

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Hi Pollara,

Yes I think u've definitely got the right idea. He didn't break up with u because his feelings had changed but just that he can't handle the current situation he is in.

That is very tricky about when u go back. But by then a lot of time will have passed, and u may be ok with being friends with him. and it may also be that u guys feel that connection again. I wouldn't worry about that for now. Like me and my guy had lots of mutual friends. But because we were still on good terms after the break-up it wasn't awkward at all. But I guess we have to wait and see how u and ur guy will interact post break up.

In regards to ur question about my guy moving, i don't know when and IF he will move at all. That has always been the main problem in our relationship. Where to live and who will move. I have made it clear that I can't move due to my career and he knows that. and at this stage, he obviously hasn't decided if he will move or not. Or maybe he has and doesn't want to tell me. Today I was so close to breaking things off with him. I think it's either u want to be with the other person or not. it shouldn't be this hard. I'm so close to just pushing him til he cracks and breaks up with me or I break up with him. Everyone says just to wait it out til my holiday and then i can have a clearer head. But it's getting me so down at times....

At least like Pollara, she knows that she won't be waiting any more times on a relationship that is doomed.

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I don't think he has taken any decision yet but I don't see him moving any time soon. So it depends on how long you are able to wait.

I didn't have any problem on waiting but my guy seemed he had. Well it is logical, I wouldn't have want anyone waiting for me if I didn't know when I will be ready. I hope your guy will get through this soon but it is difficult to snap from one day to another.

It is true that at least I am relieved. I believed that it would have been better to wait because I feel that he didn't take the right decision, but this is my objective opinion. Even in the future he might think of it as the best solution. But I am imagining myself return to my country and then he tells me ok Polla I don't feel anything for you anymore let 's break up. Maybe now it is better. He will have the mind to think it clearly at some point. Otherwise he would have think of me as the girl who waits. Of course he knows that I will still wait for a reasonable time but I guess it is difficult.

In any case this is the first time that I want to totally forget a person. I ve never said that on break ups. I am even searching tips on how to get over someone. I don't have any patience on ever waiting when I am going to heal lol.

I know the feeling of holding all your emotions in order not to be a burden to the other. But in the end, although I didn't tell anything, I didn't rush anything, I didn't put him any pressure, I just got a: thank you for you patience and your way that you handled this it really helped me. OK and then? He broke up with me although I handled the situation perfectly? Irony huh? So it is like whatever you do, if it is to happen it will happen. OK wait for your holidays and if you feel the same tell him that you understand that everything is really difficult for him, you won't put him any pressure and that you need some time yourself to think over things or something

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Well I can attest to the fact that when we're grieving, we are kind of out of our minds for a while, we're in a fog and can't think clearly.

Yes, they break up even if we handle everything perfectly, because it's not about us, it's about them and what they're going through. I know, great reward huh?!

That's why it's so crappy to have our lives on hold and wait in limbo for what ultimately happens anyway...hoping against hope that it won't. Maybe one of umpteen doesn't finalize by breaking up, but it still makes it hard to hold on and hope. And it's even crummier that we can't hate them like we would someone that broke up because of their finding someone else or something, how can you hate someone for grieving and losing their mind?

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yeah KayC. If someone let's say wasn't good with me or he had cheated on me, I would have just been mad and forget him the other day. Because in the end he was the one that lost. This anger always was healing for me at least. But now I cannot even get angry at him for more than 1 minute. Maybe I should just focus on me rather than him. In the sense that I cannot understand what he is going through but I should understand why I am feeling like that. I mean we were only two months together when the incident happened. Most of my friends are wonder how I was waiting for more months than the actual relationship and they even tell me that if I knew him better I might not want him anymore. And I know that this might be true but the time we spent together I was happier than I have ever been with guys that we ve been together for years. Well of course you cannot do any psychologic analysis on me and maybe in the end the fact that this is "unfair" makes it worst for me. Everything went great, then this happened and everything fall apart. Well maybe I should accept that he was just not that into me and forget it. Of course the irony will be if he returns and I won't want him anymore. It usually happens like that. But at least I will be happy (since I won't want him anymore).

“Let’s start with this statistic: You are delicious. Be brave, my sweet. I know you can get lonely. I know you can crave companionship and sex and love so badly that it physically hurts. But I truly believe that the only way you can find out that there’s something better out there is to first believe there’s something better out there. What other choice is there?”
Greg Behrendt, He's Just Not That Into You

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I hope that everyday will become easier for u pollara because although I dont personally know u, from what I've read u sound like an amazing and an awesome person.

And yes like that quote u can only think that it's all for the best as the other alternative is just crappy.

Yes ur right, he is not goin to move anytime soon and back few months ago I was ok with him not moving this yr. but that was under the assumption that he did wanna make things work with me. But without that knowledge I'm not ok just waiting around.

I didnt sleep very well because I was so mad at him.

Yes I agree with u both, no matter what u

Do and even if u try ur best sometimes it still doesn't work out the way u want it to. But I guess at least u know uve tried ur best.

My friend said to me last nite that this whole thing is changing me into someone that's not me and I agree. I'm not this insecure and needing constant reassurance kind of person when in r/s.

I'm starting to not like myself either. I'm not feeling any different to how i was feeling yesterday.

I feel like if I was to break up with him at least it's like regaining some control over this which at the moment I feel is totally out of my hands and I don't like that at all.

I know what u mean about wanting to forget about a person. I'm never like that ether but I feel like it's just hurting me too much.

I still have 5 days left until I leave so I have to just try and hold everything in. And going NC while I'm away. Even if he texts me im not going to reply. I'll use that time to clear my head and figure out

If I still want this because currently I feel like I'm running on empty and that I want out.

I hope this doesn't come across as being selfish pollara while ur going thru ur break up. That ur not thinking that at least my guy hasnt broken up

With me. Part of me wishes someone would just get this story over with so I can move on.

And it doesn't look like it'll be him anytime soon so I guess maybe I'm the one

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No Plum! Don't mention it. Of course it doesn't sound selfish and I really want things to work between you too guys because it gives me some hope that relationships are not always doomed because of it. But in my opinion it depends on how much you are able to wait. As i have already told, if my relationship counted 5 years I couldn't be able to be so patient. It is 5 years damn it. You have already formed a very strong bond. How can he be so distant? Or at least he could have tell something like: I want sometime to be alone but I will be back or something (of course it is the same case and the same wondering, will he be back?). Moreover, we have different targets. I am not planning on marrying anytime soon, so waiting for me wasn't such big of a deal. I could even have waited for more if he had told me to (I mean if for some reason I knew the outcome will be positive). But, if I wanted to have family I don't know what would I do. And you know is not that bad to be selfish and I admire the fact that you can tell what you feel. You know I am very proud to show my emotions to anyone, so I kind of regret it that I didn't tell him how I feel. No matter how hurt I have been I never say anything to anyone. But I don't want to have regrets. At least I know that I tried my best but I would like him to know that too, and not necessarily now. But if we stay on friendly terms I would like some time to tell him.

I would suggest to go on your holidays to begin, with and then if you are still have the patience to wait go for it. Otherwise you have to think what do you want more. Do you want to try and save your relationship or you want a family? Or why don't you try do the same thing, like let it go for the time being and start dating. And if you see that he is the one you want and after some months maybe you can try again. If you know where to find him, he knows where to find you too.

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Thanks Pollara. :)

Yeah, I think the fact that after all the things we have gone through and the bond we have together that he still can't tell me, yes, ur the one I want to be with, just help me to get through this.

And wanting to settle down and have a family is definitely higher on my priorities than his obviously.

Yes, everyone says just to go on holiday first, because if I do anything now, than my holiday may be ruined. I think I have done all I can to try and 'save' the relationship. It takes two to tango. Yes, in my mind I have already let it go, and I actually maybe had a semi 'date' today. and I actually had a lot of fun! (He is someone I have known for some time now. one of my distant friends so to speak)

anyway, it was a good distraction and took my mind off things. I highly doubt that if I decide to move on that I will want to try things again with him. I have given it my best shot and he didn't appreciate it, and that will be enough chances for him. no moare. I know that I can maybe make a nice new happy relationship with someone else by devoting that emotional energy to someone that actually appreciates it.

I see it this way, he knows that we can be happy together, but if he is too stubborn or stupid to see it, then that's his problem. And while he may have regrets about letting it go, I'm not going to as I've given it my best shot and put in 100% to it when I had the chance. Life is all about embracing what u have. People that are too scared to take leap of faith and try something that's out of their comfort zone may be 'content' but they will never know if they could have been 'Happier'

and they may forever wonder about the wot if. At least I can walk away with the knowledge of that I tried. as they say it's better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.

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Well the problem here is that he is for some reason (as all of our bf grievers) emotionally shutdown. So at this point they cannot do anything about their relationship and as this guy was mentioning (the one that came after 7 month to the girl that he break up) he was on his own bubble. He would probably regret it but at this time he doesn't know. I know very well how this does feel. I mean how can you not know? Even my guy explained to me that he wasn't certain all this time that we weren't talking. And I doubt he is certain by now but he just let it go in order not to hold me and to focus on the pressuring things and maybe regret it later. Maybe no. Who knows. At the end of the day, I didn't understand how a girl that gave you all the time and space you need can be considered as a pressure. it is kind of insulting isn't it? And isn't a good thing to have someone who cares about you at these times? I guess not because he probably is the kind of guy he wants to solve his problems alone or something. He always admired this side of mine: that no matter the problem I had, I would never drag others to them. I guess because he did it a lot of times in the past he doesn't want me to be dragged again. he even told me that if I were there things might have been worse because I would have seen his worst side. I guess that is why he told me he didn't know whether to go there or not. Because he might probably didn't want to see this side of him. But how can you stay hold on this uncertainty? I even asked him, if I were in your shoes what would you have done? And he told me that: this would have been depended on you. I would have done whatever you wanted to do and support you in any way you wanted me to do. So I guess with this answer means that he still cares for me, but he cannot do anything to correct this. Can your guy do something to correct it?

For me I think you should give an amount of time that you can wait, as I had myself. A time limit. I said that I will wait until November when I return and if he doesn't take a decision I will let it go. This might take years, but as a (guy) friend of mine had told me: unfortunately negligence bears consequences, no matter how regretful the other might be. You cannot wait years of course and in the worst case scenario to listen something like: I am sorry but I don't feel anything anymore.
I know very well what the tricky part is. Right now, you cannot think that there is someone else more suitable than him for you. It is the same for me. and you find it unfair for him to return and you might be with another guy! But since you will be happy what will be the reason of regretting? If you are not, then you will return to him! I thought about it yesterday. And by the way, even if my boyfriend decides to return, I won't accept him back that easily. OK I understand that he was kind enough but he could just accept my pause proposal

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Thanks Pollara. i think ur right. I need to give a time limited.

I'm thinking of saying to him 'I'm not going to wait for u forever. i have my own deadlines, and if ur not ready when I'm ready to move on with things, then this is over'

so not tell him 'u have xx of time to decide' but if he is not ready when I am then that is it?

Currently the way he is behaving I'm actually not finding it that hard to think there is someone more suitable for me. I can think of a lot of people that will actually want to hear about my day, will care about how I am going, and in general have an interest in what is going on in my life and want to see me and spend time with me.

It's really not that hard to want to do those things, when u like someone and care about someone.

I don't really think he would actually even be affected too much if I was to fall ill or anything like that. Oh he probably wouldn't even know as he doesn't even have any interest on whatS going on in my life.

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hey Pollara, i read the follow up to the book called 'why men marry bitches'

and it was really helpful to my situation; esp as I was just talking about today!!

one of their rules;

Set your own timelines and limits, and leave if it’s time to get out. Until then, don’t let him know about your timelines or deal breakers. Then keep your eyes open and watch how he manages his 50 percent of the relationship. Then you’ll get the real deal much quicker.

I think I answered my own question! He messaged last nite saying something random and I didn't feel like it required a reply. If after 2 days of no contact, he can't even managed to send a civilised msg of 'hey, how have u been, how was ur day' rather than something dumb then I figured it's not worth my while replying.

Thanks again for the book!! I feel like I read it just at the right time! and yeah, i know it doesn't really apply in our case, but it also made me realise that I can't just coddle him and continue to make excuses for his behaviour

How ru feeling about things today Pollara?

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I agree so much. I ultimately found the same thing true, that I had to protect myself. We can forgive but it's not that easy to put a relationship back together after so much breech...it requires tremendous effort, building trust again, etc. Are they/would they be up to the task? Not likely. I don't see any sign that Jim would. And then too, hasn't it altered how we view them, as weak, not exactly stable rocks for us! So yes, while it may be possible to salvage the relationship in the end, it's highly unlikely.

We must decide for ourselves how much/long we are willing to be put on hold and take this and then if that time comes and goes, we must get on with our lives. And they must understand when they're pushing us away, that is a risk they are taking, and are okay with that risk apparently as they go ahead about their lives without us.

I don't think any of this can be about "blame", we can't blame them for grieving, can't blame them even for how they're handling it, once you understand grief and how it affects people, you understand it hits everyone different and their responses/coping varies. This is not about blame, but about US and what WE will/won't take...what WE are willing to put up with, how long WE are willing to wait, and protecting ourselves from undue hurt and disrespect. This is about US setting appropriate boundaries to protect ourselves.

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Oh the WE part is so true, KayC. You have to set your own timetable because ultimately, you are in control of your own happiness. Depending on someone else to be 'it' for you doesn't work. Don't put your own life on hold, your own happiness to wait around for someone that doesn't have a vested interest in you. I have lost several friendships in the past year, am grieving for them, but also realize that I am tired of being the one that does the right thing, is always there, steps up to the plate but I don't get the same in return. So all set with that. Going to spend my time and my energy with those that bring value to my life. Screw the rest.

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