Guilt

[lorikelly]

I am having such a hard time with guilt. i seem to want to replay everthing over and over in my head. its almost like a recording that can't stop. i made a list of all the negatives things and all the positvie and thought once i did that it would help , wll no. i feel like i am at the end of my ropes. i feel helpless and hopeless. i try ever day but can't get away from it. i know that i am depressed due to the loss of my mom. I wonder if this will be forever, my mom suffered from anxiety and deprsssion all her life. i talk to my mom asking for her forgiveness for any thing i did wrong and part of me wants to believe she forgives me but i can't forgive myself. i go to sleep with it on my mind and wake up with it. i am physcially a mess, not eating or sleeping well. i took care of mom for 18 mos while she was bedridden at home with me and at times i was so overwhelmed, i was physcially and emotionally exhausted. i realize now that i was mad at her for not wanting to fight harder to live for me. you see i quess i never could accept that she would die. the dr said 6 mos to live and she live 19 mos, so i most of done something right. i just can't shake the times when i should be different, not gotten angry or frustrated. my mom had alot of problems emotionally also all her life so it was hard to deal with. i can only see all the good she had and only the bad i did. my therapist says that for me guilt is what keeps me tied to her. guilt was a big part of my upbringing so i was always surronded by it so i don't know any different. she said it will take time but i am not sure if i will ever be able to let it go. i am a natural born worrier and constantly go over ever scenario in my head so this is why this is harder for me now. i want to be free from it but don't know how. i try all the things everyone tells me but it still consummes me, the recording just keeps on playing. i don't have my siblings to talk to , not that they would be any help anyway. i feel desperate and so afraid of what will become of me. i find my self praying and then begging for God to help me. i read How To Go On Living When Someone You Love Dies (very good book) but i just reread the guilt chapter over and over. i need help and don't know where to start, i wish that there was a magic pill to take to take it away. the therapist says it will take a very long time since this has been a part of my life for so long. i just want to know how anyone else has dealt with it. i know i have probably asked this before but i just need to hear again. HELP

[Maylissa]

lorikelly,

I understand....really understand, as guilt was one of my parents' fortes, too, so I also grew up surrounded by it. My Mum could play quite the martyr when she wanted to! ( and there are a LOT of people like that! ) I'm glad you've already got that book by Rando, cuz I'm in the middle of reading it right now, and it IS an excellent one. But I think your therapist's right....it's going to take a long time to work through the guilt, especially if you haven't tried doing that once already in your life.

Luckily for me, I'd gone to groups like Al-Anon and CODA years ago, Al-Anon before I moved to a different city, and CODA after the move, so I broke many family ties long ago, plus got help for the dysfunctional background, and already had worked on recognizing many of those guilty triggers and tricks. I was still a worrier ( at least about our furbabies ), however. So when my Mum ( then brother ) died, the effects of guilt weren't as strong as they would have been otherwise. And yet, that aspect still played a pretty large part in my grief over my Mum, even though I wasn't her caretaker...so much of it centered around the thought that I ought to have been. ( so you're one up on me, there, cuz at least you did that, and for a LONG time, too! )

If guilt was one of the main scripts in your family life, and you were still exposed to it right up until your mom's death, it's no wonder you're still so stuck in it now, as aside from it being such a common aspect of grief ( even in folks w/o such a background ), it's all you know and all you're used to as a reaction. Since I already had an understanding of how it affected me, that helped, even during the guilty 'phase', which probably still lasted a good year after my Mum's death. I was sort of opposite my usual self, in that before her death, I focused more on her negatives, but after, all I could see were the many good things she'd done for us all her life. I know this is common, too, but for me, this was rather a blessing in a way, cuz it was a break from my 'norm' and I was able to experience a different, bigger view of her for the first time in my life. But it DID make the guilt worse for that first year. After that, both sides started balancing out a bit more, so that by the end of the 2nd year, even though I still grieved, my view was more realistic ( both good and bad sides of her ), and that's where it's stayed so far.

So with a therapist's help, I think you could go a long way towards resolving your guilt, much of which is probably unrealistically self-imposed, but I would also suggest taking a look at Codependence on the 'net &/or in books & possibly even local groups, although you're probably not up to groups just yet. There are still a few small aspects of my own guilt that I tend to believe are valid, in that I could have done a bit better, but side by side with them sits the self-forgiveness that, given my family life and how everyone was, I still did darn good, considering. At least I didn't end up feeling like a martyr, too, which would have been another monkey on my back! I really think you just need to learn about and 'dissect' your background in order to balance your perspective on yourself and the rest of your family, including and especially your mom. And maybe also reread the section in that book on caregiving and what it does to you. You're probably also still very exhausted, and that alone can contribute to a really bleak outlook on things.

And you're right...your siblings, even if you did talk to them, would likely be of little or no help, as they were part of your family's circle of dysfunction, too. So you'd still have to do your own healing ON your own ( with outside help ). And even though I already knew better, I still kept checking with my husband at times, who would remind me more rationally of WHY I'd done something or not done something in the past and who also would tell me that HE wouldn't have done as much as I had in the first place, given what my Mum could be like! So my biggest regret seemed to be.....it would have been nice if I'd been ABLE to experience that more positive view much earlier in life, rather than it having to wait until my Mum was dead. But I also knew that these kinds of things usually don't internalize until someone's gone, so I still couldn't blame myself. So it's become just a regret, and an understandable one at that.

Yes, we'd ALL like a little, magic, fast-acting pill, but there is no such thing, unfortunately. This is the real, hard, exhausting work of grieving, and, as Rando emphasizes, it's MUCH harder for those of us w/o warm, fuzzy, Walton-like families to shore us up. She's got THAT right!! But you DID do well, regardless....you took on the incredibly difficult task of caretaking your mom for all those months, and in that respect you're much stronger than I, cuz I don't think I could have lasted that long by any means, even had I had the realistic opportunity to do so. My parents were just WAY too hard to live with, especially both at the same time, and I wouldn't have endangered what little sanity I'd fought so hard to maintain by leaving home, by attempting such an onerous task back in their home. ( my Mum couldn't have possibly come and lived with us instead...and never would have agreed to that, either ) So big kudos to YOU, for having done what you did! Please, ALLOW yourself the honour of patting yourself on the back for this, as you truly deserve it!!

[AnnC]

I also have had a lot of guilt. I wanted very much to visit my former husband and help during his illness, although he told me I didn't have to do that. I couldn't afford it, and also I did feel afraid -- I did fine without him for many years, after he came out and we had to get divorced. After years of grieving the divorce, I did move on. But when he got sick, I realized how much I still loved him, and the feelings were so strong I got scared, because even though he still loved me and was thrilled we were back in contact, the reality was that he was gay and we could never have the relationship we had once had. I feared that if I went and saw him, and took care of him, I would be completely devastated if he died; and if he lived, and I was so close to him again, I was afraid it would devastate me all over again that we could never be a couple again. So I didn't go see him, and after awhile, I stopped calling him. So when he died, I had so much guilt I could hardly stand it. I wished beyond anything that I had gone to see him, or at least called him one more time, I was so afraid he died thinking I had abandoned him. It has been a constant obsession, playing over and over in my mind what might have happened if I had gone to see him, if I'd called him more often, if I hadn't cut off our friendship after our divorce, if, if, if!!! My mind never shut up.

The only thing I can suggest is to let it play out. It's not fun, but your mind is processing what has happened. It does slow down after awhile. And I found some relief by talking to others. His friends and boyfriend assured me that he never felt abandoned by me. He did not call me in the last few months because his health was going downhill and he didn't want to worry me. He didn't want me to spend a lot of money I couldn't afford to come see and take care of him because he didn't want me to see him sick and he didn't want to be a burden on me. I am finally coming to see that, just as I wanted to see and take care of him because I loved him, he tried to protect me because he loved me. And we both had our fears, and that is normal. I still had anger over some things in our past, too, and that's normal, too. His friends assured me that he was so happy that we had reconciled and formed a close friendship, and he was not one to be in daily contact with friends, so he didn't think it was odd that I hadn't called in a couple of months. Slowly, I am gaining a more realistic picture of what really happened, which is helping me to forgive myself.

It's been a long hard road -- I am now in my third year of grieving for him, and it's been baby steps. But I do progress. When those guilt feelings come up for me, I remind myself that I did the best I could, and I remind myself that he told me I gave him more than he ever hoped for. And I do firmly believe that they can still see us and watch over us, and they can see what's in our hearts and they know we love them and are sorry for our human failings, which is something everyone has.

[STARKISS]

Hi All,

I also are having trouble with guilt, before my mom died I knew something was wrong a few days before she died and I did nothing to stop it. I knew the way my mom was acting was not her normal way. My mom died after going into a diabetic coma while we were on vacation in Las Vegas. My mom was slowly dying and I sat back and ignored everything. I have dreams of her death and thoughts if I did something would she still be alive today. I miss her so very very much that I feel a little of me dying everyday. I do not know what to do about it.

[amanda]

hi

guilt is something i really struggle with.Ive been for counselling and i know i couldnt have changed anything really but the the guilt is still there and i think it will be for a long time.i wish you success in over coming this.

starkiss.

losing someone on vaction is awful my mum went to orlando april 05 and died while she was there.

its as if im still waiting for her to come home.I know part of me died when my mum did and like you its seems i lose abit of myself each day.

i havent been on the board for quite a while ive been trying to keep busy and make plans for the future so that i can see a point in life.

I dont know if its working but i have to something.

anyway enough of me droning on.

just wanted to let you know i really do understand.

amanda

[STARKISS]

Thanks Amanda,

I know that feeling as well it killed me to leave mom behind in Las Vegas when my dad and I returned. Thank you for your understanding and kind words take care and God Bless Shelley

[lorikelly]

Thank you all for answering me, i will read and reread them everyday that i need to. Part of me know it will be a long road but the other part of me is so scared that i will not be strong enough. i pray every day for strength. i did once go to a co-dependency mtg (both my brothers are recovering alcoholics and both have master degress in social work but are no help)i am going to look it up on the web again. thanks most of all for listening.

[STARKISS]

Hi Lorikelly,

I hope that you are doing a little better, I will continue to pray for you and if I could give you strength I certainly would do it with no questions asked but since I can not I will definitely pray and keep you in my thoughts. take care and email me if you need someone to listen Shelley

[dpodesta]

First of all Amanda, did that happen this year? My wife died on April 6th at Disney World while we were on vacation, I can't believe that someone else lost a loved one the day before while on vacation.

starkiss, I know what you mean about leaving someone behind, that was the hardest thing for me. As my son and I were pulling out from the gate at the airport the next morning I started crying, just the thought of leaving Karen behind. We came to Orlando with 3 people and were leaving with 2.

Now for all of you,

I will give you a little background leading up to Karen's death. When Karen and I would go on trips, she would make herself so sick from anixety. She suffered from anixety attacks and has been on medication to help. The night before we left to go to Orlando, she had a tightness in her chest with pain in her left arm. I used to work on an ambulance so I know the signs on a heart attack, so I asked her if we needed to go to the emergency room to have it checked out. After a little talking she felt better and we decided that it was just due to her anixety. The next morning she woke up and felt fine, and all during the plane ride and bus ride to the hotel everything was fine. It was when she got to get up at the hotel that she collapsed and that was it.

That played in my mind for a couple of weeks until I got the nerve to ask my sister who is a nurse practioner was there anything I could have done to stop this from happening, if I had taken her to the hosiptal the night before would she still be here? Here is the answer my sister gave to me. Her heart attack was so severe, that if I had taken her to the hosiptal the night before, they would have kept her overnight and she would have had the heart attack at the hosiptal, because of the severity of the attack, she would have died at the hosipital instead. So she died while she was doing what she liked to do, be on vacation with her family and friends, cutting up and laughing. Getting to see the excitment in Carson's eyes as he rode on the plane and on the bus knowing he was going to Disney World for his first time. She died having fun instead of in the steril environment of a hosipital room.

I say all of that to say this. I firmly believe that when someones job is done here on Earth, that is when they will die, God only knows when that time is, and no matter where they are or what we try and do there is nothing we can do to stop it. All of you all were taking care of your parents or loved ones, so of you for a long period of time and some with very little help from family. You all gave the ultimate sacafice, put your lives on hold to take care of them. Yes there are times that you would be frustrated or angry at them, who wouldn't be? Each and everyone of you should be commended for the role you played in talking care of your loved ones and be proud, because you didn't give up. You did everything in your power to help them to live as long as they did, and they know that. They know that you sacaficed your time for them and they do forgive you for any wrongs you may have done to them. The main thing is, that you didn't have any thing to do with there death, you had everything to do with their life. Let go of the guilt and be proud of the caring nature that you have that gave you the strength to live and take care of them.

So all of you, let go of the guilt, ask God to take it away from you. And hold your head up high, you are what true heros are made of as far as I am concerned. You were their hero and you are my hero. Keep up the good work

[shell]

Derek,

What a wonderful post. I agree with you that when it's someones time to go, it will happen no matter what we do. I have gotten over most of my guilt (the maybe I should have done this, maybe I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have lost my patience, etc) by realizing that fact and also that I truly did the very best I could. You said it all so well that I won't add anything to it. Thank you. Karen was a very lucky lady to have you in her life, and I'm so sorry it was cut short. And your son is lucky too to have such a wonderful father.

Hugs,

Shell

[lorikelly]

Derek

Thank you for that reply, i cried as i was reading it. you always say such nice things. i am trying so hard to work on the guilt that keeps me tied to my mom. i try to remind myself of all the good i did, but honestly its hard. they say when someone dies we only see their good and all of our bad. i believe that is true b/c that is how you want to remenber them. i am working on it and praying so hard that it will get better so that i can finally begin to live my life. My therapist told me that i must put my boys and husband first for once (i always revolved my life around my mom) she said that i need to show them that they are just as important as she was. i am trying so hard it just hurts so much. keep praying for me and i will pray for you and your son. You sound like a wonderful man and Karen was blessed to have you. God Bless Lori

[STARKISS]

Hi Derek,

What a wonderful Post!!!

I also agree you do not get to choose when or where you go. I think that you might get the feeling your going to die though. I say this because last April we that is my mom,dad and myself went on vacation to Las Vegas but before we left my mom gave most of her clothes away to good will and she phoned each of her children and said see you later. She never phone the family before any other trip but this last one. So who really knows but I do believe you. Take care Shelley

[dpodesta]

Shelley,

I agree with you, sometimes people do know when they are going to die and take action before hand to tie up loose ends and say their goodbye's. My Mother-In-Law had cancer 8 years ago and was at home with Hospice. The Tuesday before she died she had clairity of thoughts and talked to each one of us and told us her goodbye and we got to tell her ours. That was the last time she ever woke up again, she died that Saturday with her family around her.

A little off of the subject, that was the first time I cried since my Grandmother died 12 years before. This wonderful lady gave me something through her death, the ability to be able to cry and feel again. Ever since then I have been able (For the most part) to show my emotions and to let them out, before I would just hold everything in until I would explode. I can look back now and say that something good came from her death. I know in my heart ttoday that someday I will be able to look back at Karen's death and realize some good that came from it. Right now though, I miss her and wish she was here to give her a big hug, I just want to feel her arms around me.

Karen I love you and miss you!

[STARKISS]

Hi Dpodesta,

I just wanted to thank you for all of your posts especially this last post, I have really learned alot from them and I realize that there are people in this world who really, really care for another person God Bless You Derek and take care Shelley

[Haley]

Paul

You are so right "Only GOD know's when it is our time to go I was told by my brother-inlaw who is a ordained Pastor that we all have a purpose here on earth and when we have succeeded in it it will be than that it is our time to go home" Well I am a firm believer in that I do not have guilt at all with the way MOM had her life and all of us should take a second look at that. I also think that the person has a right to pass where they want to and the ones who it just happens to well once again it is there choice in life to be doing the things that they wanted to be doing. Now wait don't take that the wrong way please I know that peolpe 80% of the time do not no that they are going to pass but they are doing what they want to and with who they want to be doing it with and GOD sees that it is there time and place. Weird I know maybe I did not say it the right way and just maybe somebody out there can sum it up in the right direction for me.

Sorry if this offened anybody not my intentions

Thanks

Haley

[amanda]

hi derek,

sorry ive been away.no my mum died 16th may 05,she went to disney world april 9th 05 and was admitted to celebration hospital the next day,they where great and did everything they could but she died of pneumonia.

I love disney wold but as you know the last trip was not a good one it was to say goodbye to my mum.

one day i will go back and do everything she wanted to do but didnt get to.

my heart goes out to you.It feels as though your waiting for the holiday to finish and they will come home.something i know will never happen.

i now know it wasnt my fault my mum died,she would have got sick no matter where she was,but guilt is still there over many other things.

loads of love

amanda

[STARKISS]

Hi Derek and Amanda,

I am sorry the three of us lost our loved ones while they were on vacation.. I know myself I find it hard to even think of getting back on a plane... I was invited to go to Las Vegas last spring but I did not feel I could cope with the ideal of going back to where I lost my mom so I said sorry I just can not go... But I do think that maybe not right away but in the near future we should all try and return to the place that they die in... be it Florida or Las Vegas.... And maybe do something special to remember them... I think when I do this I will return to the buffet my mom really liked... but for now I can just think of it because I am not ready to do it yet... Take care both of you and God Bless you both Shelley

[lorikelly]

Well its me and the guilt has crepted up again. it never leaves but some days are worse then others. i keep going over what i said,did't say , how i reacted to situations,how i didn't react, that i never talked about her dying, not kind enough sometimes , stressed, tired, the list goes on. i am not sure if i can live with myself. i just want one more day, one more hour, one more minute with my mom. will i ever feel ok, with the pain ever end. somedays i am not sure, it will be 6 mos for me. i am still exsisting. today i got through christmas at my inlaws with about 15 people and we stayed about 4 hrs that was long enough. i thought constantly about my mom and the things i go over in my head. i have no contact with my siblings which also hurts. i sent them cards from the boys but not a card back. i should not expect different. i should be able to go on , i have the boys and a wonderful husband. i am so afraid. if this guilt would let go, i know that is a choice to forgive ourselves but i can't get there yet. HELP i fell like i am drowning. lori

[Laurie]

Lori, How many times I have said "If I only had one more day." Did you start your new medication on Thursday? I know you were afraid to, but it does help. It's wierd how our own guilt feels so awful to us, but to other people it doesn't seem to them like it would be anything to be guily about. Do you know what I mean? Like to me, You took care of your Mom, you were there for her, you told her you loved her and I'm sure much more, and yet to you.. it wasn't enough. With me, when I talk about my guilt with Sean, everyone says he was a grown man, you weren't responsible for his meds and what he ate or didn't eat. BUT.. I constantly think, well maybe if I had just done this or that, he'd still be here. I know guilt is pretty common when we lose someone we love. But I guess no matter how many times we hear we shouldn't feel guilty, we are going to feel the way we feel. Well, we got through Thanksgiving and Christmas. Now we have to do New Years, but by the time Spring comes maybe we'll be feeling better. I hope so. Love, Laurie

[shell]

Lori,

I don't think there is a one of us that doesn't feel guilty. I felt that way about my dad, and now I'm feeling that with my mom. Everytime I get impatient with her or lose my temper....but I finally came to the point where I know that we do the very best we can and sometimes we can't always be perfect. I have finally given up on perfection. Also, I'm a bit of a fatalist. I truly believe that things happen the way they are suppose to. So no matter what we maybe should or shouldn't have done, it probably wouldn't matter. Lori, please, just know that you have nothing to feel guilty about and that you can be proud of yourself for the care you gave, even if you weren't always perfect.

Hugs,

Shell

[Trudy1964]

Lori,

I know I am repeating what everyone else said but we all feel guilty about something. That is part of grieving. We all loss patience we are sick parents. My Mom was only sick for 3.5 weeks and I remember thinking "If this goes on for 2 years, when am I going to see my kids again. When do I get my regular life back." Five days later she died. I could kick myself in the butt. But try to look at everything you did for your Mom. You cared for her unselfishly for 18 months. Only a very loving, caring, angel on earth could do that for her Mother.

My Mom didn't drive. When she was healthy, any checkups, shopping, hair appt., that needed to be done, my sister or I always had to take her. My 4 brothers were never really involved. Sometimes we would get agitated becaused we always had to drop what we were doing to bring Mom wherever she neended to go. Now, I wouldn't have missed it for the would. That was such quality time. Even her dying days. I spent everyone of her last 21 days with her. Good quality time. Some were spent crying. Some were spent laughing. I was with her. Like your Mom, she wanted me there.

Lori, you did everything you could. Your siblings missed out on so much. I know sometimes it was hard to watch your mom's suffering. But the comfort you gave her was so gratifying. Take peace in that. I know you will meet your Mom again one day. She surely has a big comfy chair waiting for you in heaven. That will be your reward for how well you cared for her.

Missing my Mom,

Trudy

[lorikelly]

Thank you all for listening and answering me. i will reread the posts b/c i know hearing it over and over again will help. i meet again with my priest this thurs so maybe that will also help.

Laurie, once again i didn't start the meds i am so afraid, i am starting this thurs bc i need them desperately . i am at the point where i can't find my purpose in life and this really scares me. i will keep you posted about them. pls say a prayer for me that they work. thanks again lori

you are all a great group of people and i wish i could see you all in person. love lori

[STARKISS]

Hi All,

Now a days I find that I suffer from alot of guilt, I say this because when my grandmother died I chose to go out with friends the night everyone went to see her... And she died the next day... Another guilt issue I have is that I kept giving in to my mom when she asked for chocolate and now that she died of complications from diabetes I feel that I have caused some of the reason for her dying... Take care Shelley

[shell]

Shelley,

Don't feel guilty about the chocolate (or anything else!). When my dad found out he had cancer, he also had pneumonia(I'm sure I spelled that wrong!) and was taking antibiotics. He wanted to have a beer and I couldn't give him one because of the antibiotics. I kept telling him that once he was finished with those, then he could have all the beer he wanted! Well, he never did take his very last antibiotic, because by that time he was too out of it to take pills. Naturally, I wish I had said "the he** with it, have a beer." It wouldn't have made any difference, so I'm glad your mom got to enjoy her chocolate. I'm sure it didn't matter and did not cause her death, so don't feel guilty about it. Be glad she got to have something she enjoyed and that you could do that for her.

Hugs,

Shell

[Trudy1964]

Shelley, Shell, Lori,

My Mom had high blood pressure, lung cancer that had spread to all over in her body, kidney disease and God only knows what else. She wasn't supposed to have salt, salt and salt. When the Dr. came in to confirm the diagnosis of cancer, we asked him about her diet. And I am quoteing him, "If she were my Mom, I wouldn't pour salt down her throat but I would let her have what she wants." He even said boiled crabs or fried shrimp were fine. Those were her favorites.

Boiled crabs was the last meal she got out of the house to eat. She died a week later. Now that I'm thinking about it, that's the last meal that we all ate as a family with her. Even my Dad was there. (They have been divorced for 37 years. I have never eaten a meal with both my Mom and Dad. It took my Mom dying to get them together.)

Evidently the Dr. knew she wasn't going to be with us long. I think it was more important that we made her happy. Only God knows when her time on earth was up. Not you or I. Take comfort in that you gave her joy with that chocolate. God knows long before that moment how long our loved ones have on earth. I don't think a piece of chocolate or a couple of boiled crabs really made a difference. I hope this helps you find a little peace.

Missing my Mom,

Trudy