Anger

[kellymarie]

So I want to bring up a topic that it seems like most grieving people avoid. It seems like as soon as someone dies, everyone who knew them glorifies them. I understand; we want to remember the good in that person and why we loved them. But our loved ones where human. They weren't perfect, and things may have been said or done that hurt us. Some of my grieving books even encourage remembering our loved ones as the whole person that they were. When Josh died, we had a lot of unresolved issues. Forgiving him wasn't even on my radar yet. However, since he died, I have been forced to face all of this head on. For the first couple of months, I spent much time going over everything and trying to forgive him. I really thought I had done a great job forgiving him. But now that I'm coming up on some anniversaries of some unhappy memories, I am angry and mad that I was forced to forgive him. I mean, if he hadn't died, I would have worked out the forgiveness thing on my own time. But he died and I was forced to forgive him. Where does being mad at a dead person get you?? Has anyone else had any of these issues? How do you deal with them?? Right now I want to be mad at Josh but does it really get me anywhere? It's certainly not affecting him. And it certainly seems like everyone else grieving only remembers their lost one with love, which almost makes me not want to post this topic. The only person I've been able to talk to about this with is Josh's mom because she knew the side of him that could hurt us both. At the same time, I feel bad talking like this about someone I loved who died too young. It's a huge mess really. Thanks for letting me rant. Kelly

[dpodesta]

Kelly, You are on your way to healing! From what I have heard since Karen died is that anger is part of the healing process. For the longest time I though, what do you mean? How in the world could I be mad at Karen. Since that time in dealing with Carson's school, doctor appointments, etc... I have become fustrated and even mad sometimes. It is okay to be angry at the person who died, as time goes on you will feel the time is right to truly forgive Josh. Right now be angry and get it out of your system. I hope all goes well.

[kellymarie]

Thank you Derek. Sometimes it's just so hard to be mad at someone who had their life drastically cut short. I feel bad for being mad at him but I guess I should just be mad (for now). Thanks again. It's funny how sometimes you just need to hear that "it's okay."

[dpodesta]

I agree, it is hard to be mad at someone whose life was cut short, Karen should have been here for at least 20 more years or so, I should have been able to celebrate our 25th anversary together, and now that isn't going to happen. There are so many things to grief that we will never know every aspect and it helps so much when we do hear that it is normal and that we aren't the only one feeling or acting the way we are.

[Maylissa]

kellymarie,

Well, I think your honesty is refreshing! I had talked awhile back about being mad at my Mum...although for what some might call a strange reason. Long story short, I'd had a communication done with her and ended up furious at what appeared to be her same-old, same-old attitude, with family issues. It may sound strange, but it actually helped me to move on in my grief and rather balanced the way I'd been missing her GOOD points so much, even though I'd never totally lost sight of all her bad points along the way, either. So far this more balanced feeling has held, and in some ways, I'm still also mad at her, but it doesn't consume me as much. Each extreme to its own season, I guess. How I dealt with it was to just let it BE and bided my time feeling this way until it settled down on its own, and that's all I had to do. Now when memories come, whether they're good or bad, I just feel whatever I feel about them and let it pass. It's a bittersweet thing and one I may have to always live with, for all I know, but it's honest.

So far, every grief book I've read encourages remembering ALL the characteristics of a loved one, and taking a balanced view of one's relationship with them, too. It's a good thing, cuz it's more realistic. It drove me crazy some of the time that everyone but me, seemingly, only had good things to say about their loved ones, when I was sitting there remembering so many things I was still angry about regarding my Mum and brother, so I understand your reluctance.....who wants to be odd man out? But I definitely think it's much healthier to tell it like it really is when trying to work through your grief. Now THAT takes real courage!

[kellymarie]

Thanks Maylissa. I definately feel they way you said you have felt. It's good for me to see that you let yourself think about and deal with both the good and the bad. I think I have spent so much time remembering the good and afraid to remember the reality, which includes the good and the bad. Like I mentioned, there are some unhappy anniversaries I'm going to have to go through soon. It's going to be tough but I guess I have to recognize them and deal with them. And not pretend they didn't happen.

"It's a bittersweet thing and one I may have to always live with, for all I know, but it's honest." I think this is what I am going to have to also learn and keep with me for the rest of my life.

Oh... the tides are changing again in my grief... and just when I thought I had a handle...

Derek, It is sad when someone dies too young. Josh's mom was mentioning that it's sad she'll never get to be a grandmother. He was an only child.

Thank you both sooo much. Hopefully I'll be able to get some sleep tonight now. I'm so glad to have you all.

[shell]

Kellymarie,

I think it is good that you brought up this topic too. I think a lot of our guilt is wrapped up in remembering our loved ones bad qualities. As you said, we are all human and so have good and bad points. I guess I'm very lucky in that my mom and brother and I can talk about my dads bad points without guilt now. We will say, "You know how stubborn Dad was!" And it's said with love and we don't feel guilty. You do have to remember the whole person...not just the "saint" we all want to think they were. But in my mind, if you know someones faults and still love them, that is really love. If they were perfect, or you couldn't see anything bad about them, it would be easy to love them, but not realistic and not really true love. I feel guilty right now about getting angry at my mom. She is still having a hard time and some problems and I know it's not her fault, but I still get angry and impatient with her sometimes. It also makes me feel guilty because she is the most important person in my life and I just don't know what I'm going to do when she is gone. Then I am wracked with guilt and fear. But I am finally accepting that I am only human too and I am going to feel this way sometimes. I have a lot on my plate right now (basically taking care of everything and everyone without much help) and it's no wonder I sometimes get short tempered. So I'm trying to forgive myself and look at the situation realistically.

Gosh, sorry to have gotten off on my own thing there...but back to you, I actually think it's good that you are facing this particular aspect. And I am glad you brought this up. I think we are all afraid to admit or talk about stuff like this. You have opened up a much needed topic to discuss. Thank you.

Hugs,

Shell

[STARKISS]

Hi All,

When both my parents died last year all I could remember saying is why me!! I was angry at God for letting them both die. I was also angry at my mom and dad for leaving me all alone... How could they just leave me... I am confused more than angry... I am wondering more what is going to happen to me and less about how angry I was at my parents for leaving me...I was really angry at my family as well for coming into the house and taking things that meant alot to me and just selling them... I was angry at the family for selling mom and dad's house not even a month after the death of my dear father... I am still angry and very confused about the house and how the family treated me after both my parents died but I am not as angry at God or my parents... Take care Shelley

[kellymarie]

Shell, You know this place and you know you never have to worry about "gotten off to my own thing!" It really does sound like you are overwhelmed with everything... and it seems absolutely normal to react the way you are. It is so hard to be accepting and forgive yourself but I guess you have to try!

Shelley, It seems that you too have felt anger during this whole process. It's not a fun emotion but I guess we just have to accept our anger and get it out!

As for me, today I'm much less angry. Last night I was mad! I'm still working on why I'm mad. I've decided that I'm going to acknowledge some unhappy memories but I'm not going to let myself dwell on them. I like what Derek said, I'll forgive him when I'm truly ready.

About a week ago, Josh came to me in a dream. He told me he regretted some of the things he did that hurt me. He said if he knew then what he knows now, he would have not done these things. I sometimes wonder if dreams are really that person coming to us or just me really wanting to hear that he regretted those things. I told Josh' mom today about this. She's not one to believe in too much spiritual things but she actually seemed to agree that Josh does regret the bad that happened. I don't really know how I feel about it all. But I had dreams earlier after Josh's death where he was rather apologetic and wanted to make "good" with me. I'm definately trying to forgive him but I guess I'm not completely ready. (This is what Josh and I were going through in real life when he died... ) Again, it's hard to be upset with someone who died but I guess I just am. Thanks again for letting me spill my guts out to you all.

[STARKISS]

Hi Kellymarie,

Thank you for your last post, I am starting to see a counsellor and trying to get through the anger I am dealing with... Thank you for being an understanding person and a person willing to help others Take care and God Bless You Shelley

[shell]

Kellymarie,

Thanks. I am a bit overwhelmed, but seem to get through each day, so I guess that's all we can hope for! I need to remind myself of the advice I give everyone else...take one day at a time.

I think it adds another dimension to grief to lose someone when there was any kind of unfinished business or "bad feelings" between you. Or you did or said something out of hurt feelings or pride that you would give anything to take back. Something like that happened to me with an ex (a long time ago) and it has "haunted" me ever since. But, I know I said what I said because, frankly, he deserved it. But it was the last conversation we had, before he died shortly afterwards, and it still just tears me apart. Because of my pride I lost precious time with him and it will always hurt. Having said this, I do forgive myself because, as I said earlier, he pushed me into it with some of his behavior, so it wasn't my fault entirely. Try to remember this when you get mad at Josh. I'm sure you had good reasons for your feelings at the time and don't blame yourself or feel guilty. And it's ok to be mad at him. Love is a mixture of the good and bad. And I think your dreams are very significant. I think people do communicate with us after they die.

Hang in there and just feel what ya feel. None of it is "wrong".

Hugs,

Shell

[kayc]

Thank you for starting this post, I hadn't seen it because I usually stay in "loss of partner/spouse/significant other". At the time I posted "Betrayal", I hadn't seen anyone else ever post anything about dealing with the unlovely side of their loved one. Now I see it has had 456 hits so evidentally others must go through it too or else it just piqued their interest.

Some of what you have been through seems so similar to what I am working through...and what you have shared is also what I have learned to be true: that we have to remember the whole of the person. That just because they did something wrong or weren't perfect, they did love us and our love and relationship still stand. That we do need to work through the forgiveness part. One thing I have learned in life is that forgiveness is neither cheap nor easy. I have to question forgiveness that is given so readily and easily, so quickly...the only one I know of that can do that is God and even His forgiveness didn't come cheap...it cost Him His only Son. That means it took planning and effort on His part as well. I had a boss once that had an affair with a coworker of mine. Now his wife is one of the most gracious wonderful Christians I have ever met. When all of this came out, she forgave him but had a difficult time forgiving the coworker. All of us knew each other socially as well and went to the same church. However, she SAID she forgave her. What I saw take place, however, is that her unforgiveness and bitterness affected her gracious spirit and hurt HER, not the other woman. Unforgiveness is like that. So there is no question in my mind that I need to forgive and that I need God's power in help in being able to do so. One observance that I made over all of this is that her readiness to forgive her husband but not the other woman showed me that that she wanted to absolve her husband of any wrongdoing by blaming the other woman...that way she didn't really have to address the issues with her own marriage and partner. We have to be very careful to be totally honest with ourselves...with ourselves especially. Complex issues do not always have simplistic answers. We need to give ourselves the time we need to fully work through things...not belaboring it or letting it linger out longer than necessary, but giving ourselves time to fully deal with issues and not gloss over them. For those who don't have these big issues to deal with, count yourselves fortunate. But sometimes people feel anger over something like WHY the person died. Perhaps they smoked and you hadn't wanted them to. Maybe they were diabetic and you cooked healthy for them and yet still they went out and ate things they weren't supposed to. Maybe they refused to lose that 20 pounds or get exercise or maybe they drank too much or did drugs. Maybe they were a workaholic who refused to slow down and destress. They made lifestyle choices that affected those who are now left behind and now you feel angry. Maybe you haven't given yourself permission to be angry...give yourself that permission now and tell that person out loud or in a letter how you are feeling now. Acknowledge it and then deal with it and begin to accept that if that person was here today, they would regret the choices they made that left you all alone...if they were here today they would surely make different choices. Forgive them for their unseeing ways and not taking these things more seriously. We are all human and we all err.

[deborah ogren]

So I want to bring up a topic that it seems like most grieving people avoid. It seems like as soon as someone dies, everyone who knew them glorifies them. I understand; we want to remember the good in that person and why we loved them. But our loved ones where human. They weren't perfect, and things may have been said or done that hurt us. Some of my grieving books even encourage remembering our loved ones as the whole person that they were. When Josh died, we had a lot of unresolved issues. Forgiving him wasn't even on my radar yet. However, since he died, I have been forced to face all of this head on. For the first couple of months, I spent much time going over everything and trying to forgive him. I really thought I had done a great job forgiving him. But now that I'm coming up on some anniversaries of some unhappy memories, I am angry and mad that I was forced to forgive him. I mean, if he hadn't died, I would have worked out the forgiveness thing on my own time. But he died and I was forced to forgive him. Where does being mad at a dead person get you?? Has anyone else had any of these issues? How do you deal with them?? Right now I want to be mad at Josh but does it really get me anywhere? It's certainly not affecting him. And it certainly seems like everyone else grieving only remembers their lost one with love, which almost makes me not want to post this topic. The only person I've been able to talk to about this with is Josh's mom because she knew the side of him that could hurt us both. At the same time, I feel bad talking like this about someone I loved who died too young. It's a huge mess really. Thanks for letting me rant. Kelly

[deborah ogren]

I'm new at this website, and greving comes in all form. The one thing that I have figured out that when I loss my Deb, I wasn't mad at her. After all she didn't asked for the cancer, but I was mad at the disease that took her from me.

I believe that if you come to the point that this wasn't there choice, it was in Gods hands. I have to believe that her work was done on earth, but God had something better for her to do. It is the only way that I can deal with her death. It has only been 5 months right now, and it doesn't seem to get any better, but they say time will heal us all. There isn't a moment that goes by that I don't miss something about her, but she knew how much I cared for her, and that is the important thing.

Just know that it is going to take you some time, and it will get easier.

Deborah

[Boo Mayhew]

Hi there, I haven't felt anger towards Cliff ... yet, and am dreading it if I do because I will find the guilt of doing so hard to deal with. But I know that many many many bereaved people feel abandoned by the person they have lost ... and it is a perfectly normal reaction in grieving. I HAVE however felt anger like never before ... so intense that it has scared me because I am not used to feeling that way at all. Let it wash over you ... try not to feel bad about it. Remind yourself that your grief is yours alone and that there are no rules written about grieving ... my counsellor tells me that it is good to feel anger (doesn't matter what about) ... that it is the experiencing of the emotion that matters .... that anger kept bottled up inside can turn into depression ... so it needs to be expressed, be it by doing your housework and yelling and cursing or smashing cheap crockery!

[kath]

Kellymarie,

There was a musician that said this same thing, something like when you die you are set for life, because you then become a hero. Bob and I had a lot of trouble early on in our relationship. I went through a domestic abuse program after 15 years together to answer the question of "How could someone who says they love me treat me so badly?" Fortunately, we were able to work together to find forgiveness. (I was no peach either, dealing with my own addictions.) It gave us an incredible ending to a tumultuous marriage. But after he died, I was very angry at him. There were things I divulged to my family members that I had kept silent for years. I felt guilty talking about those "secrets" because he had just died, but I needed to say them. I can honestly say, it was like a huge burden floating off my shoulders after they were said. Oh, I've also said plenty of good things, because he had some really amazing characteristics. We all do. Not one of us is perfect.

I think being able to talk to someone you trust is key in working through this. The anger doesn't have to stay with you forever and you are right in seeking that apology from him. Just don't let it hurt you any more than it has. Kay is right, hanging on to things like that are poison. Writing a letter and putting it in a balloon or burning it in a fire are a fantastic release. Anger is just one more feeling that you will need to ride out on this grief roller coaster. Good luck and I am sorry for your loss.

Kath

[Chai]

Dear Kelly,

I think you have done a wonderful thing by joining this website and talking to people here. Just in this small thread alone, I can see you are growing and dealing with your anger and your grief. I think, like others have been saying, that grief must be taken as it comes, in all shapes and forms, and if anger is a part of your grief, then so be it. I think it is good that you have Josh's mother to talk to, because one of the worst things is feeling like you have no one to talk to, who understands.

I can relate to your post, because at my dad's memorial people said a lot of glorious things about him. I was thinking to myself at one point, "But he wasn't always the person these people are describing. My dad DID get angry, he swore, he didn't deal with people right all the time." I was relieved when someone told a story about my dad getting angry and swearing and slamming a chair against a wall, not just because it was an interesting story I'd never heard, but because it gave a more all-around perspective of my dad. People aren't perfect, and they don't gain a little angel's halo around their head when they pass away, because they still made mistakes in their lives and didn't always do the right thing.

The point is that, regardless of their things, we love these people anyway. But being angry at them is not wrong; I think they would want us to deal with our grief and let the anger be there. Sometimes I feel angry with my dad, thinking why couldn't he have talked to me more about his health? Why couldn't he have confided his sadness in me when he was ill? Why couldn't he have fought harder? (Let me tell you, that last one brings up guilt issues; which is a whole 'nother story, really). My father thought he was invincible, albeit in a very humble sort of way, so sometimes I feel angry at him for being so damn confident, because it made it harder for him (and for me) when he was ill. Couldn't he have gone to the doctor just once to see what was going on instead of always trying to figure it out himself?

*sigh* anyway...yes...very poignant topic, Kelly. I think it is vital that we all ask ourselves about our anger towards our loved ones, and try to deal with those within our hearts. It is hard, because our hearts already hurt, but I think it will be helpful and worth it in the long run.

take care,

Chai