sunstreet Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I feel so different and it is so hard. I need to find other lesbian's who have lost their spouse. Tried out a grief support group yesterday and it was painfully hard. One member during "check in" who was just after me; actualy said she would not be able to continue if I was allowed to stay in the group. She said lesbianism is a sin. Doesn't seem to be any grief support groups in my town specifically for lesbians. I hope it has not been difficult for anyone here to hear me talk about my pain. Blessings, Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Carol Ann, I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure that I am speaking for others, we are all here for you. We are here because we have lost someone very dear to us and we need to talk to others that share that. Your pain and needs are just as deep as ours. So please do not feel alone here, keep posting and coming back. God Bless Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat2005 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Carol Ann, You are going through the loss of a loved one just like everyone else. You should not be treated any differently. I just cannot believe that someone could be so insensitive and actually say that to you. We are all here for you whenever you need us. Take care, Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melina Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 What a terrible thing for someone to say! I am shocked. You lost your life partner and you're grieving. No one should have the right to criticize anyone else's sexual preferences - anywhere. And especially not in a grief support group. Is there someone leading this support group - because if so, I would let them know. You have us anyway. Melina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perkins808 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 All I can say is wow. I am so sorry that you had to experience that Carol Ann. I would hope that if the person running the meeting knew about this they would have suggested that this other person find another group. Grief has no gender, no sexual orientation......it belongs to ALL of us who have been blessed to have had such a wonderful connection with another human being that their loss has left us devestated. Hugs, Tammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Oh Carol Ann ~ I am so sorry to learn that this happened to you . Gathering the courage to attend a grief support group is difficult enough, but to be assaulted by the ignorance and intolerance of another member is beyond the pale. I know you feel different, and I know this person's comment must have felt like a stab to your heart ~ but please do not ever think that you are any different from any one of us. You are a precious, valued member of this group, and I hope you know how loved you are by all of us. This is one of those times when I urge you to invoke that famous statement by Eleanor Roosevelt: No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Do not waste another moment of your time even thinking about what this person said or did to you. Shame on her (or him?) Shame!!! I want to point you to some resources that I hope you will find helpful, if you're not already aware of them: Blog, Dan, in Real Time: One Man's Journey through Love, Life and Grief, http://daninrealtime.blogspot.com/ - Dan lost his partner Michael in September 2009 and blogs about his life as a single dad in the aftermath. In his Introduction he writes, I am a recent widower, having lost my partner/husband Michael on September 13, 2009 due to a brain tumor. Yes, I am a gay man, a parent of three children, ages 11,16 & 18, and a servant to one large cat and one small dog. While only given 3 1/2 years with my beloved, we were able to travel, enjoy our family and friends, experience joy, comfort eachother in grief, and be legally married in a beautiful ceremony on October 19, 2008. In reading my blog you will likely experience my sorrow. Know that throughout each day my sorrow is at times interrupted by small wonders of laughter and joy. I long for the day when joy occupies more space. Until then, here I am. Dan's site includes Shades of Blue – Gay Widow(er)s Online Support Group, http://groups.google...ers?hl=en&pli=1 - I have started an online LGBT bereavement support group. As a quick reference caption, I have used the term "Gay Widow(er)s." Please know that this is meant to be inclusive for all LGBT or Q identified widow(er)s. I hope this group can be of help to other widow(er)s, who like myself, find themselves struggling to find a sense of healing. If you are interested please follow the link, and request to become a member. If there are other ways in which I can offer you support, please feel free to ask. We are here for you. Book, The Loss of a Life Partner, by Carolyn Ambler Walter - "Walter offers 22 stories of individuals whose life partner died, presenting them against a tapestry of bereavement theories and issues. The widows and widowers describe the challenges of reframing their identity and life; particularly powerful are narratives and experiences of gay men and lesbians, because as disenfranchised grievers they lack the access to the legal benefits, supports, and social rituals of mourning... The captivating struggle of grief involves a crisis in meaning as bereavement shatters assumptions, support systems, coupled identity, and patterns of life." Book, Lesbian Widows: Invisible Grief, by Victoria Whipple - Reveals the touching and very personal stories of twenty-five women, including the author, who were widowed at a young age and forced to create a new life without their life partners. The book follows the widows from the time the couple met, to the time when one of the partners died, and beyond, to show how the surviving partner coped with her loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queeniemary Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Carol Ann, I am so sorry that you had to encounter such a moron. As Tammy said, grief has no gender or sexual orientation, we are all of us in this boat together, not because any of us want to be, but because it is out of our control. We here are your friends, and we are all grieving together. I am sorry you did not get the support and the help from the support group that you were looking for. We are all different, we are all grieving, and we all support each other as best we can. Take care, and keep coming here to this group, you are part of us. Mary (Queeniemary) in Arkansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindakay Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Carol, I'n not a lesbian but have always had gay friends of both sexes. People that judge have very small minds and are homophobic. My husband and I were not. He too committed suicide and he said it wasn't about Love. He had that with me. It was a long journey of depression. He wrote me over a hundred poems. All kinds. Dark ones and romantic and even silly ones. People would cry when I read them He was so good with his images. Love is love and what people's preferences are their business. Don't allow her to run you off. Tell them that everyone that loves and loses someone deserves compassion. It's not like you're describing your sex life to her and state it that way. Tell her her religion if Christian preaches love toward everyone. Didn't Jesus forgive murders and prostitutes and robbers and those that killed him? What is a gay compared to all of those? A person just like she is. Someone that lost a loved one. Shame her. I have no patience for hateful people. Don't give up or be secular. People are people whether you're gay or straight.LindaKay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Carol Ann, Was this comment made during your group session? How did the facilitator of your group handle the comment? After group did you have the opportunity to discuss with her if this ignorance was going to be tolerated? Maybe this person should find a diffrent group! I would think the other people in the group may be silent because they are shocked but they don't agree? I know it might be hard for your to pursue this but you need to at least talk to the organizers of your grief group to see how they feel about it.This is hard enough without studpidity and unkindness. I am dumbfounded. I'm so sorry you been made to feel diffrent. Your love deserves the same respect. You are not alone in this, that I can promise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstreet Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Thank you all so much for your support, advice and love. I truly feel lifted after reading all your posts. After I made my post this morning I phoned my manager and said I was taking a sick day. I turned the ringer off on my phone, turned my cell off, shut my computer down, and totally wept off and on all day long. I let a lot of pain out, it felt like every cell in my body was weeping. I had flashbacks off and on all day to other similar hurts and intolerance and ignorance I have had to face and endure. Why are people so cruel? Sometimes the pain I feel accepting Melissa's suicide is more than I can express with words. I think I have accepted it and then I long to be held and to hold again and screaming inside it just can't be! So much tragedy I have had to endure and overcome. I have never given up and I am not going to now. In a way I feel like thanking that woman yesterday for her comment has given rise for a lot of pain to be released today. Pain that needed to come up to the surface and be washed away with my tears. Pain I never knew I had. I think I have been in denial some as a way to keep going. The facilitator was aware of the comment made in the moment. I as Marty put felt like I had been stabbed in the heart, a heart that just has had to endure far more than her share of stabs. How much can one heart endure? I looked to the facilitator after this woman made the comment expecting she would say something..anything but nothing. Her body language told me that she was appalled but no words came from her mouth. She looked to the next person to begin their "check in". I felt like I did not matter. I sat there for about 10 minutes more and then just got up and literally ran out of the room. The facilitator did run after me and said please don't leave. I did not turn around, I just kept running all the way to my car and drove home. I have not checked voicemails yet and don't plan to tonight; so the facilitator may have called today. Marty, thank you for acknowledging my courage. Thank you for the resources. Thank you for reminding me of Eleanor Roosevelt's statement. I also admire Rosa Parks and Nelson Mandella. Thank you again everyone. I wish all of us healing and bless us all. Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstreet Posted October 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 WEll, the facilitator and I spoke yesterday and she apologized to me for not speaking up in the moment. She said she was just so shocked in the moment that it rendered her speechless. She asked me what I needed now. I asked if she had spoken to the woman. She said she had not yet as she wanted to check in with me first to see what I needed. I said what I need is to come back to the group and have an opportunity to speak how that comment affected me and that I have every right to come to a grief support group as anyone else. I am angry that not only do I have to experience the pain of loosing Melissa but I also have to experience the pain of people who are ignorant and intolerant of lesbians. It complicates my loss and makes me so angry that if I could climb the tallest mountain that you know and scream at the top of my lungs for the rest of my life, it would only touch the pain I feel at times. I did not choose lesbianism, I was born a lesbian. It was a good exchange I had with the facilitator and I will go to the next group and see what develops. Melissa's life mattered, my life matters and I will keep honouring the love that Melissa and I shared till the day I die and Melissa and I will be together again. Again, I offer my most heartfelt gratitude for all of you and your support. Blessings, Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 That's great news! I'm so happy you are able to gather strength from this experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest popengena Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Your post made me so sad. I hate that people even have to have an opinion on why people fall in love. It is love, pure and simple......If you loved your spouse, u are entiteled to all of the same rights as anyone. And especially in recognizing your grief. I have alot of freinds around me that are gay couples, and sometimes I'm taken aback by how devoted they truly are to their sposes.......Its like you've had to go thru so much more just to be together, that once you are.....you live in a blissful world..at least that is what I've seen happen....and thus, your grief is probably shocking, because you (sadly) just dont feel comfortable talking about it.....I am talking like I know what u r going thru, but honestly...my very best friend is a gay man married to the love of his life....if either of them go, the other will be lost......so I see it and get it...and wish I could hug you to tell you its normal for you to miss your spouse....and she's looking down at you wishing you'd give urself a break. Hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Carol Ann, again, I so admire your courage and your strength ~ I am proud of you for your willingness to use this as an opportunity to educate others in your support group ~ but it hurts my heart that you've been put in that position in the first place Forgive me, but it seems to me that, far from being rendered "speechless," it is your support group facilitator's responsibility to create a safe place for everyone there, and to protect every member of the group from the kind of thing that happened to you. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt if you are willing to do so, but I must say that if the next time you're there, you don't feel truly safe in this group, you owe it to yourself to find another group. ♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 I am sorry you experienced someone's ignorant insensitivity. What difference does sexual orientation make when it comes to losing our partner? We're all pretty much going through the same thing, regardless of gender, regardless of orientation. The point is, we miss them, we are suffering loss, it's affected our identities, our unfinished chores, our unpaid bills, our unshared regales. We sleep alone, live alone, cook for one (plus whatever children), and have noone special to tell jokes to, share burdens with, or anyone who will appreciate those new clothes or lost pounds on us. We attend functions alone, check off "single" on forms, and a million other things we didn't want or wish for. In that respect, we are all one and the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queeniemary Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Carol Ann, I applaud you for being willing to try the group again. I agree with Marty that the facilitator should have taken care of the situtation immediately. I also agree that if you do not feel safe or comfortable there, you should hunt another group. My heart goes out to you, you should not have had to experience this type of narrow mindedness at any time, but especially at a place where people should be helping people. Thoughts and prayers are with you. Mary (Queeniemary) in Arkansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstreet Posted October 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Again, thank you all for your empathy and support. I agree with you Marty and Mary(Queeniemary) that the facilitator should have taken care of this immediately. I do believe it is the "professionals" duty to create a safe place for all. This just seems basic in my thinking. I am going to go today and have a voice about how that comment affected me and how it complicates my process on reframing my life without Melissa. Right or wrong, in front of everyone I am going to speak on my feeling and thoughts that the facilitator did not intervene immediately as well. I don't want to continue with this group and have been in thought and prayer over what I need to do now. I had a difficult weekend, lot's of intrusive flashbacks from other stabs to my heart. Lot's of flashbacks to finding Melissa dead in our bed. I wish this was an appropriate fourm to talk about what the factors were that I believe led Melissa to choose suicide. I pray for us all, I hurt for us all, and I believe we will all make it. I believe the best way to honour the love Melissa and I shared is to let the tears just flow when they come, keep moving forward and let myself feel joy here and there and not feel guilty that I feel joyful at times. Wish me luck for today. Blessings, Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Carol Ann, my dear, of course we wish you luck. I hope you will visualize all of us lifting you up as you attend this group today so you can say what you need to say. We're all very proud of you. Know that we are there with you in spirit, supporting you and sending strong, positive thoughts in your direction ~ and do let us know how it goes. ♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstreet Posted October 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Thanks Marty, I did visualize all of you lifting me up and supporting me as I used my voice. I wish it was not so hard for me to use my voice and I pray it just gets easier and easier. The woman who made the comment was not there. A couple people expressed that they welcome me to the group and I have a right to be there and hoped I would continue. The facilitator apologized to me in front of everyone for not addressing this in the moment. I am feeling proud of myself at present. I was overcome with tears on my drive home and had to pull over for a bit. I have been weeping quite a bit, of and on. I am not sure what I will do now. I need to take some time and process it all some more before I make a decision about this group. I am sorry I am not offering any words of support to any of you at present. Please know I hold you all in prayer and I wish none of us had to be on this journey. My lupus has flared up and I am feeling quite low at present. Blessings and courage to us all, Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Oh Carol Ann, I'm so sorry to learn that you're not feeling very well right now ~ but I'm glad to know that still, you're feeling proud of you! That's even better than our feeling proud of you! HOORAY for you for standing up for yourself. I think that, through your experience and your willingness to share your story with them, those group members (and the facilitator) learned a very valuable lesson. We are sending healing thoughts in your direction. Feel better soon! ♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Carol Ann, Sorry to hear you are not feeling well, but I am so PROUD of you!! I have a problem with sticking up for myself and Tim always used to tell me I had to learn to do that. I'm slowly getting better, I think Take care of yourself and I hope you are feeling much better soon!! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajie_Laurie Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Carol Ann, I am so sorry to hear this happened to you. People can be thoughtless and cruel when in fact they should be comforting, just as they want to be comforted. I do hope the facilitator talks to this woman and the group, so no one has any doubt that you belong there. You belong here as well. Don't let ignorant people who speak before thinking get you down. Educate them. My prayers are with you. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisEvelyn Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 I think this is probably quite common with someone who's experiencing grief. Too lash out I mean. I lost my "significant other" 12 weeks ago. We'd been best friends for 13 years and together for 9. He had gone through a bad divorce at the same time he had lost his Dad and never got over it. He also had addiction issues, especially with alcohol. We definitely had our problems but I loved him and he loved me. His mother passed 2 years ago and for some reason, this last year was especially hard. When he felt bad, he lashed, in words, extremely. He threw tantrums and said things just to say them. He often stated he wanted us "to break up" but he never really meant it, this was just his own insecurities. His sister who is almost 15 years older and lived in a different state always acted like "his mother" even though she was never part of his life and judged him for his lifestyle and felt she knew him and us. She didn't. In thirteen years, they had very little activity and knew each other mostly through phone calls. She moved away 5 years ago to a different state. She also judged me, especially since his outlashes were always about me, but that was just because I was the only one there in his life and the one he could lash out on and to. It was just his process, and yes we both knew it was immature, but we were open about it and worked on it. He new how to push my buttons and I would not always be mature either, we're human with human errors. Accept his sister demands perfections and holds "human fault" as either disgusting or unworthy. She turns her back often even on family. But he knew this about her too. It never really bothered him, he accepted this in her as her "human fault" and he was dedicated to family and loved her. Unfortunately, since he passed so close to his mother's passing and he was a bit of a procrastinator, he died without a will and she has come into town with full control. Control being her best attribute. Sorry for the long story but I felt a bit of background to help relate it to this post. The point being...she too is grieving, even though she doesn't like me or get along with me. She's "judging" my relationship with her brother as one sided because he would often bitch and complain about us, and two days ago she emailed me a hateful letter that came right out and stated that I killed him, was a "cancer to his soul," that he hated me, etc. We're not a part of each other's lives so I just wrote her back a letter wishing her a better understanding of addiction and peace. It hurts like hell that she hates me so much and places so much on me. But I just try to remember that she's grieving, too. And since we're not really part of each other's lives, I just have to learn to let it go. Granted it's not discrimination like you experienced, but I think that might just be a separate issue. Also, it doesn't help with finding a place with a group, I just hope that my story can help you not feel so alone and find you can find some peace and solitude that others are grieving too. Which I guess is the whole point of all of us being here. In support of us not being alone, really her insensitive and inappropriate comment just shows that we all are grieving and we are NOT alone. Also, I find I get very little understanding in general, because we were NOT married. On a separate note, if you don't like how the law will handle your estate after you're gone, make sure you leave a will. God bless to you. I hope you find what you need and peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstreet Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Marty, thanks for the encouragement, support, and healing thoughts. I ended up in hospital due to the lupus, and my diabetes, but I am home again now and feeling stronger than ever. Chris, thank you for being proud of me and for your support. I understand how hard it is for you to stand up for yourself. Something that always helps me and want to share with you should you find it helpful. I always remind myself I have a "RIGHT" to my voice and I have a "RIGHT" to use it. I feel the fear and do it anyways! I can share that it does become easier the more we practice. I am sorry for what experiences in life have caused you to find it hard to stand up for yourself. We can do it! Laurie, Thank you for your empathy. I have not been knocked down yet and I don't plan to let it happen now. Admittedly, I am tired of having to "educate". I just want to be! Thank you for your prayers. HisEvelyn, I am sorry for your loss. I am sorry that you had to endure being lashed out at. I applaud your physchological understanding but it is my belief that no-one deserves to be lashed out at no matter what the reason. I know for myself one way I survived through a lot of abuse in my life is to deny that it was abuse, and make "excuses" for my abuser's. I am not in denial any longer, this is my journey. Sadly, it was my families prejudice of lesbianism that was one of the contributing factors, to my Melissa's suicide. I think this woman in group verbally assaulting me had nothing to do with her grief and everything to do with her prejudice. Sadly, being a 52 year old lesbian, I know to well prejudice when I expereince it. My heart aches for you and know that your post has helped me, more impoartantly I hope that it helped you! While in hospital I decided I do not plan to go back to this group. At present I am not sure that I will search out another. Blessings and courage to us all, Carol Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korina Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Carol Ann: You are very brave and I admire you for your courage and spirit! And for the record, that person is an idiot. Korina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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