The Subject That No One Talks About

[MartyT]

Dear Ones, here is another one of those outstanding posts I want to share with all of you:

The Subject That No One Talks About

Yes, I read your comments from Monday's post.

And many of you stated that no one talks about ...... well, you know. That thing no one wants to talk about.Except for some of you.

Some of you really do want to talk about it.As one of the writers on this blog ...... I kind of took that as a "dare". You know, as in "I dare you to write about it".

And unfortunately (or fortunately, for those of you who want to talk about it), I'm the kind of stubborn person who hates to turn down a "dare".

And so here we are.

Getting ready to talk about "it".

Hopefully you'll all jump in and comment ...... and talk about it.

The subject of the day is ..... S. E. X. Read on here . . .

[kayc]

Sex? What's that?!

Seriously...

It's something I've seen talked about on other widow forums...but not this one. That was okay to me because the other ones seemed preoccupied with it. However, when your marriage is rudely interrupted unexpectedly with death, you're left floundering, wondering what you're supposed to do...it's an adjustment, and it can be a big one. For myself, I've gotten used to "life without", but then it's been over seven years since George died. I tried remarriage, that was a bad move, it didn't help the sex issue any either...a lot of guys my age can only remember and dream about...unless they have, uh...help. Well he got the "help" and used it with someone else, so after a divorce, I was back to square one. What does one do? Me, I've given up the idea of having someone else in my life. Not that I'd be opposed to it, I just don't consider it's very likely. I don't meet anyone. I go to work, go to church, come home. Just taking care of my place and my animals keeps my life too full to date or actively pursue meeting someone, and don't want to risk more of what I've been through. So I've learned to close the door on that chapter of my life. I never thought that was possible, but I have, and it's okay. Honestly, whatever someone decides to do with this aspect of their life is okay by me. I understand. No judgement here. If you really want to find someone, you probably can. If you choose to live alone, you will adjust...eventually. It happens. I'm one who has "life after" and I'm okay with it. I find it's the cuddling, sharing your life with someone that genuinely cares about you that is harder to be without.

[enna]

So I needed a good belly laugh right now. Thanks Marty. And am I glad I’m not the first one to respond. Good for you, Kay.

You really don’t want me to comment on our grief discussion site with my Jim staring at ALL of you do you?

The blog was very interesting. Hummm - Everyone is entitled to there own opinion so I won’t be negative about what I read. I guess everything is all right to be put out there!

I have probably commented more than anyone about how I missed the hugs, the hand-holding, touches, the looks – we are all coming from a different set of circumstances in our relationship with our spouses. Jim and I had to become creative when it came to the intimacy of our relationship during the last years. He was not physically able to do what we so enjoyed in our early years. Sorry, Love!! But did his twinkling eyes follow me wherever I went. He was tender and sweet and I so miss that. I miss him sitting on the edge of our bed watching me as I came out of the shower. He said that he just loved looking at me - my belly and all. I loved him for accepting me as I became after forty years of marriage. I loved that he still touched me even those last few hours that he was still aware of what was going on around him. Intimacy is a very private thing to me. Lovemaking made me shiver and tingle inside. I do not think about SEX right now. I think about good hugs and someone listening to me. I think about how much I miss my Love. Anne

You don’t leave anything left under a rock do you Marty? Thank you.

I like a DARE, also. And if this isn’t censored - Who’s going to be next??

[mfh]

Strange, just two days ago I was thinking that no one ever talks about sex here and thought someday I would bring it up. We all have very close relationships with our husbands/wives/partners and yet do not discuss intimacy (physical/emotional). I am not in a very good space tonight (see post under Looking for Positives) and so it is not a good time for me to speak to this as right now I just don't care about it...but I will speak to it when I feel better. I am glad Marty posted this. Let's not let it get lost.

Peace,

Mary

[nats]

OK Now...

Marty always finds ways to get us going and moving ahead, but that's why she's the moderator,

Kudos again Marty...

From the other side we as men also miss the very same things as our spouses or you do now, of course on a different perspective but

it was hard and another "change we adapt to", I did not miss the sex portion at first mainly the touching, holding and cuddling.

I felt guilty I had not done enough of those things even though we did plenty but once they are gone you for sure want it back and more.

The portion of the blog that stood out that's quoted below stood out to me because I am blessed to have had that hope happen...

Quoted Text From widowsvoice

"I hope that I will find love again.

And I hope that it finds me.

I hope that I am loved as deeply and as fully as Jim loved me.

I hope that I will again have a fulfilling sex life.

(I still hope that my kids aren't reading this!)

I hope that my days of making love are not over.

And I hope that I am able to be that close, that intimate, that "as one" with a man again.

But that's all I have.

Hope.

No guarantees.No promises.No one in my sights.

Just hope".

It does and can happen if it's meant to be, I have found a remarkable physical, mental, and intellectual connection with Brenda my "hope" that I have never had before, not in my first marriage of 25 years that ended in divorce or in my marriage to Ruth...they were both special and great for sure, Ruth being the one that I felt the closet bond and a love like I had not had before and she taught me much, but now I'm finding I don't miss a moment of not telling Brenda the little things, always holding hands and touching, and the intimacy is surreal. I think the fact that Brenda's spouse was not like that much adds to the bond as she is now learning a new way to be loved...in short I would say just keep your hearts open for whatever is down your path, some will find that "hope" and some will not, but we all will continue on our journey and you will indeed know when you find it...take the new road slow and cherish the moments like you've never done before...amazingly this grief journey is a teaching and learning journey we fail to see as we feel such dispair...

May Peace Be With You All...

NATS

[Wifflesnook]

This is such a private subject but very important. Yes, it's the cuddles and closeness that I miss but I've also struggled with the regret that I didn't reach out more in recent years, as we got older and intimacy took more 'effort' if that is the right word. I can't do anything about it now but it's one of those things that I feel regret about. If only we were as wise when we had our loved ones as we have become now! I tell myself that Pete wouldn't think I let him down in that respect, as it was a mutual omission if you know what I mean, and we were very cuddly together. Now of course because we all miss this so much it seems it was never enough. And we would behave differently I dAresay. I know I would for sure.

[kayc]

George had five blocked arteries, but didn't know it yet. He struggled because he'd spent his life looking for me and just when he found me, things didn't work like they used to, he found that ironic. He thought it was the Diabetes, never realizing he had heart problems. I remember shortly before he died, we were snuggled in bed going to sleep and he reached over and took my hand and quietly said, "snuggling is good too." "And I said, Yes, George, snuggling is good too." And I knew he'd made his peace with what was. That moment meant so much to me.

[ANC1117]

As a man in his late 40s, I have come to miss both the sex and intimacy. Marty, I am glad that you shared the blog with us. I found that several of the replies to be helpful with what I myself struggle with. I did notice how several spoke in regards to the intimacy side and I will agree that I too miss that part of my relationship with Celene the most.

Not sure if it is in my blood (being Italian... ) or just male DNA, I struggle with the lack of sex. Now I don't want to turn this into a post that should be rated "mature audiences only" so I will just refer to one of the blog responses about the guilt. It was about 5 months after Celene died that I began to have the urge for the missed sexual part of our relationship. I continue to have those urges, (not to make Celene out in a disgraceful way) our sexuality was very active. I can recall telling a close friend how it was like going from all to nothing overnight. The part that keeps me from moving on to another partner, or "friend with benefits" (as noted from a blog reply) is the thought that I would be in some way cheating on Celene. That what we had should never be broken by another person. Even self gratification makes me feel shamed and guilty. I am not sure if this will pass with time, I do know that it is a struggle I deal with often. It is like the old Animal House movie, where a devil sits on one shoulder and an angel on the other.

Anthony

[Lina]

I have struggled with this also. Being in our mid-30's and newly weds our sex life was very healthy and I miss that a lot. I have a hard time imagining wanting to be with anyone else and so I find myself mourning that also.

[Kavish]

As my grandfather used to say after having 6 kids..."It was his duty towards my grand mom, that he had sex otherwise he would not have needed it." I always thought of sex as not a natural extension of my self, maybe I was self conscious. But now I strive to just feel the sensuality for my Dabby through the heart since my loved one lives in there.

Kavish

[mfh]

My focus, these days, is not on sex. I am just not there right now. I have been and will be, I am sure, but not right now. I do want to jump in on this string of posts because sex is something seldom addressed here or anywhere. Part of that I understand. There are parts of Bill's and my relationship that are private-not meant to be shared. We all know that about our relationships but discussing sex seems to be something that is avoided generally.

Bill and I both waited what felt like a lifetime to have meaningful and fulfilling sex. It was an important part of our lives because it was not just sex but it was an expression of all we were. Oh, yes, there were times when it was just playful and fun but for the most part it expressed all of us and all we felt and had together. We made love in my friend's meadow a few times, living room, bedroom, when we stayed at the Monastery..we felt those celibate priests needed that kinds of energy in the air We were a "touchy, feely" couple...we held hands almost anywhere. At a concert we would reach out to each other with a hand squeeze or a hand on a thigh. At home, we would often cuddle on the sofa watching TV and in the kitchen cooking together, often hug/kiss each other or get playful. We used to tease about Virginia Satir (family psychologist) who said humans need 14 hugs a day just for maintenance. When we had disagreements, touch was how we initially re-connected as we also processed. I miss touch with Bill more than any words can say. I miss sexual intimacy and expression and closeness. Bill's deterioration brought an end to most sexual intimacy many months before he died. I have always called Alzheimer's disease the disease of 10,000 good-byes...and it was. Day by day, little by little...every day there were losses. However, we always touched, hugged and when he started going to bed at 5pm, I would lie with him, holding him until he was sound asleep. And he would hold me until late into the process. I would then get up for a while and be in solitude or read anticipating the loneliness that lay ahead...as if I thought I could. No way. I was also in my own trauma so lots of this is a blur. Towards the very end, it was me touching him. I climbed into the hospital bed (at the hospital and many times after he came home in the final week) and wrapped myself around him. His head was on my heart and my hand on his heart as he exhaled for the last time...letting go of the entire earth including me in some way.

I miss touch/hugs/sex...brushing up against each other by accident or on purpose/silly stuff...I miss it all. No one is there physically as I want and it would not truly matter because it is Bill's touch I miss most. Hugs from others last 3-20 seconds (I have never timed it but that feels about right). It is not like being held daily. I have good, hugging friends and it feels good to hug my friends or be held as I sob (that is rare when that happens) but I miss lying on the floor with our heads between the speakers listening to Mahler or Wagner or even Simon and Garfunkel or Neil Diamond. I miss sleeping together...waking up feeling his body close to mine...I miss it all and now I am sobbing and must stop. If I think of other input I will post...later.

Mary

[ANC1117]

Mary,

I can relate to the sobbing when we think of the loss of touch from our love ones. You and Bill sound very much like Celene and I (with exception to the monastery ). I remember a friend telling me how he saw Celene and I once at the store just holding hands and pushing a cart together. He explained how he could tell how very much we loved each other. I often see the "body pillows" and wonder if having one would help me sleep at night. Then I think how it most likely wouldn't due to the lack of Celene's: smell, touch, body warmth, and not to forget the occasional elbow to the ribs when I snored too loud . Air hugs to you... Also, I enjoy hugs myself and agree that the 20 seconds could be much longer.

Anthony

[mfh]

I fear I was the one who nudged Bill when he snored Yes, I do not think a body pillow would help. Bentley, our Golden, does sleep on Bill's side for a short time each evening. He gets hot, I think, and before long he is on the floor. I like it when he is there. sometimes he dreams and the bed shakes and that reminds me of Bill when, late in the disease, he would flail and his muscles would twitch. Yes, Anthony, hugs could easily be longer and being held and holding is something I miss a lot. I guess we jsut go on....cyber hug to you...Mary

[kayc]

I used to catch people at church staring at us when we were together, because of the obvious love we had for each other...it was rare and it was special.

When we first got married, it was an adjustment for me because he wanted to sleep all snuggled/tangled up together...I was used to my space. It sure didn't take me long to adjust! I will always miss him, we were perfect together.

[ANC1117]

Bugsy and Bear share the bed with me sometimes too. Bugsy was Celene's "baby" and spent many of nights between us. He does sometimes leave my side throughout the night to stay with Ciara. Must be the snoring thing...

Anthony

[kayc]

My dog climbs up on my loveseat to snuggle with me every night before bedtime, I appreciate this so much. I don't know if he feels the need for himself or if he senses my need, but it means a great deal to me.

[mfh]

Kay, Bentley gets all but his hind paws on my lap every evening also. Stays about 45 minutes, makes eye contact a lot. I think these fair babies know er hurt. Mary

[Wifflesnook]

When Pete was really ill in hospital (he pulled through that time) I was allowed to stay the night. He had a single room because he was so ill and I don't think they expected him to survive. Anyway the nurses checked on him every few hours of course, but rather than sleep or try to in the chair I decided to get into bed with him. I'm only seven stone and he was very thin by then so even though he had an oxygen mask I managed to snuggle in. When the nurse came in I just pretended to be asleep and she left us alone. I will cherish this memory. Wen he came home for the five weeks before he died I used to get into the hospital bed beside him sometimes. I now wish I had done more often than I did. But anyway I'm glad I did it. We always slept without night wear so now I am wearing pyjamas for the first time in fifty years :-(

On the side where my Pete should be is a filter coffee maker on his bedside table (he brought me a coffee in bed every morning). Honestly I still can't believe he isn't coming back somehow. I'm glad we are sharing these things. Jan

[feralfae]

I keep surfing around in this wonderful place and finding more cause for tears, memories, and joy. After Doug's last huge surgery in October, and after he was home and weak but walking again, it was enough to be able to hold hands and kiss.

But one night, not too long before he left, we were able to hold each other and make love one last time.

It is one of my most cherished memories, because we both knew he was leaving, and that this was as much a goodbye to a part of our life together as it was our usual "ultimate closeness" that we shared. And it was that: a communion of two souls expressed through our bodies, and it felt as though we were back on our honeymoon. It had been months since Doug had been well enough, or home from hospitals and clinics long enough, for us to make love. I am so happy we had that last loving time of sex before he left. It was so very special. I just feel very blessed that we had that expression before he left. *<twinkles>*

fae

[kayc]

The last time George tried he couldn't, he thought it was the Diabetes, but no it was five blocked arteries...it's amazing he made it to his physically taxing job every day! But I will never forget us lying in bed and he said "Cuddling is good too" and I responded, "Yes, cuddling is good too, George." It seemed even more special because he "got it" that we could have intimacy w/o the sex...our connection far surpassed that. It is one of my most special memories...previously he just would have felt frustrated, or "less than a man" or like he let me down...I was glad he accepted what was instead of what wasn't.