Reflections and musings

[Cookie]

On ‎04‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 4:45 AM, Gwenivere said:

It's another Saturday night alone.   Our good Groundhog Day tradition was date night.  It's been almost 30 months.  I sit here now almost all the time so aware I will not see him again here.  I can't get the thought out of my head.  We all know it.  I'm trying to figure out why it has become almost obsessive thinking now.  I know it would help if I felt healthy.  The combination of various maladies that now are my companion from waking to bed make it hard to get outside myself.  And then I wonder if I would even feel this bad had he not left.  How did I get to feeling so old in just a couple of years?  

After all this time, I still can't figure out how I will live without him.

 

Gwen:  I can relate to what you said.  I'm also still trying to figure out if I can live without him.  I see a counselor and have been diagnosed with "complicated grief" because it's almost 2 years and I still feel so bad.  That made me feel worse, but he says it's not uncommon.  I left feeling like a failure and like there is something really wrong with me after all.....my husband died and I can't seem to get back into enjoying life; I guess that is what is wrong.  So much for the timeline.  You know they say there is no timeline but if you don't shape up and act content, then you get a label--complicated grief.  So sorry for your suffering.  I have to tell you I feel physically healthy but it doesn't make me feel better...I know, it should.  It's funny actually.  I do enjoy things at times and I keep doing and going; it's just my heart isn't in anything and I feel very sad inside most of the time.  Okay, enough of that.  Hugs to you, Cookie

[Dr Lenera]

5 hours ago, Marg M said:

"They" do not matter.  All that matters is yourself.  Just smile at them and say thank you or say "I'm fine."  It is a lie, but just like in that movie with Jack Nicholson, you cannot yell at them and say "YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH" because they cannot handle our truths.  So, give them the little lie.  You meet someone on the street that you have not seen in awhile and they say "how are you doing?"  They really do not want to hear how you are doing.  They are just acknowledging you are there and they are there.  

That is where WE come in.  We know the truths.  We know how hard to handle the truth is.  I'm not gonna lose any sleep because I told Tom, Dick, or Harry that I am fine.  And, they are not going to lose any sleep over me one way or the other.

Advice is something everyone has to give for some reason.  My sister is wanting me to change insurance that I have had all my married life.  It is not too expensive, it pays fast and I am not out too much money that Medicare and my insurance does not pay.  But, she has found insurance that pays "everything."  To begin with, I would not meet their qualifications.  But she was insistent.  Again, a well meaning person who almost got in a fuss with me because I won't change.  In this time of government upheaval, I am not giving up something that works.  

Don't worry about other people and how they think, or the advice they give that is not asked for.  Just worry about yourself and don't have hard feelings about someone that is inquisitive.  Tell them "I'm fine" and let it go.  Right now, you have this forum to come to that will go along with you in your feelings because if we have not faced it ourselves, someone on here has.  

 

I think you said some very wise words there. I think that's why I've been using the forum more of late after being almost a lurker for ages.....I just don't want to tell acquaintances etc. about it all anymore and they just can't relate!

[Margm]

Gonna rant a little.  I don't like them using any grief on a psychiatric DSM code.

Gwen, Cookie, all the others, we all have our moments, hours, days.  Got a whole lot on my mind right now.  Lots and lots of family worry.  No fussing thank goodness.  

I know "complicated grief" now has a psychiatric code, but you know what used to also?  Transgender and homosexual.  They took them off the list.  I used to type psych reports all the time, cannot remember what they are called, DSM codes?  

Grief is complicated.  It is traumatic and complicated, and confusion, and foggishness, forgetting everything, sometimes can be downright dangerous.  But complicated grief as a psychiatric code?  I am sure there are rules and regulations for such things, and I remember stories of grief complications, but a  DSM psychiatric code?  I guess that means we carry it too far for "normal" human actions.  

Someone tell me what that means?  Normal human actions.  That damn code is just that, it doesn't describe you, or me, or them, or they.  Find a cure for cancer, but let us grieve the next 1, 5, 10, 20 years we have left.  My grandmother still grieved after 18 years, as if he had died the day before.  Yet she lived her "complicated" grief alone, way out in the country, kept her grocery store accounts with a #2 pencil on a Big Chief tablet, and no one cheated her.  All five feet of her collected the debts that were owed her, no gun, no threats, just the perfect stamina of someone that had determination, and the mountain caved in to her bravery complicated grief life.  That little ratty store left money to all six surviving kids and each were given acreages of land.  One little five feet tall plain ole southern smarts with about a 9th grade education.  And she never quit missing my grandfather.  Outlived him about 25 years.  She never gave up.  One cardiologist told her she needed to walk for exercise.  So she walked that road from one telephone pole to the next and back.  When her main cardiologist found out he was livid.  She was not supposed to be exerting herself like that.  

My marriage could be a very complicated marriage, why shouldn't my grief be the same?  

Guess you need a soup spoon for this salad.  I think I have been angry a lot lately...............maybe that is complicated grief.   

[kayc]

Personally, just my opinion for what it's worth , I don't think it's complicated grief.  To me that speaks of something else involved with it.  To me this is common grief, all of us feel like this, good grief!  How many of us feel hunky dory whether it's one year or ten!  The things we used to enjoy no longer bring us that excitement.  We are grieving!  It's not over in two years, it's not over in ten!  We will continue to miss that person that lit up our lives!  I feel like Marg, that they're too quick to assess and label us like we're some kind of specimen.  Maybe that justifies our still seeing a grief counselor when they bill the insurance, so they affix a code.  But really, it means nothing.  We just miss our spouse.

[MartyT]

What Is Complicated Grief?  ♥

[Margm]

I cannot read all this now.  Getting ready to take Brianna to Hot Springs as she has to be where her mother can sign for her.  I feel like I am going into hell for a number of reasons, maybe most because Billy left me there.  

I have read up on complicated grief, and possibly the most uncomplicated grief is if we purposefully follow along behind our mate.  Nothing to study.  

I am going to read all of the articles.  

Psychiatry is many, convoluted paths to follow.  My daughter was student body president at her college, was only taking Wellbutrin for depression.  Made her feel better so she took more and had a seizure at the podium addressing teachers, students and congressmen who had come to this important meeting.  From there her "depression" has been treated with every new psychotropic medicine that has come out.  Yes, she has permanent diabetes now.  She was on the honor society at her college.  More meds added on, no levels drawn on Depakote for two years sent her into the mental hospital nearly dying.  

I had same psychiatrist off and on for 15 years.  She has a new one every time she moves, which is often.  Hence, our trip to Hot Springs today when we had this all planned for Louisiana.  This is complicated mental illness, in my opinion.  

You help.  I appreciate that.  Some Family Practice doctors should not act as psychiatrists.  I worked for three family practice physicians and they have to be retrained on all the new things every three  years, I believe.  That is why it is so important to find a therapist and find one you can stay with, one you trust.  I am not trusting, I am afraid, from the treatment my daughter has received.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of cracks to fall through and they are getting wider..

No offence please.  You have helped me and others many times.  This is what you are trained in.  There are many people treating though that should not.  I don't know how to find one personally, because if they give me a bad feeling, I'm gone. 

My first medication so many years ago was a tricyclic that is supposed to take up to four weeks to work.  I was so depressed (in the 1970's) that when I took that first pill the whole world opened up to me, I was no longer depressed.  One pill.

Our minds protect and sometimes torment us.  

[MartyT]

Marg, my dear, I understand completely why you feel the way you do, and I don't blame you one bit for being so cautious in your pursuit of valid and reliable, evidence-based health care.

[Margm]

I know you understand Marty, and that is why you are so beloved by us all.  Right now, I am scared to death to go back to that city and  it is one of the most beautiful little towns in America.  I know it did not take my Billy, but (in my opinion) they mistreated him.  I have had a Xanax and I am still afraid and it has been over 18 months.  I have been to Mount Ida twice and it was not traumatic.  Somehow, this is traumatic........but I can do it.

[MartyT]

[Cookie]

15 hours ago, Marg M said:

Gonna rant a little.  I don't like them using any grief on a psychiatric DSM code.

Gwen, Cookie, all the others, we all have our moments, hours, days.  Got a whole lot on my mind right now.  Lots and lots of family worry.  No fussing thank goodness.  

I know "complicated grief" now has a psychiatric code, but you know what used to also?  Transgender and homosexual.  They took them off the list.  I used to type psych reports all the time, cannot remember what they are called, DSM codes?  

Grief is complicated.  It is traumatic and complicated, and confusion, and foggishness, forgetting everything, sometimes can be downright dangerous.  But complicated grief as a psychiatric code?  I am sure there are rules and regulations for such things, and I remember stories of grief complications, but a  DSM psychiatric code?  I guess that means we carry it too far for "normal" human actions.  

Someone tell me what that means?  Normal human actions.  That damn code is just that, it doesn't describe you, or me, or them, or they.  Find a cure for cancer, but let us grieve the next 1, 5, 10, 20 years we have left.  My grandmother still grieved after 18 years, as if he had died the day before.  Yet she lived her "complicated" grief alone, way out in the country, kept her grocery store accounts with a #2 pencil on a Big Chief tablet, and no one cheated her.  All five feet of her collected the debts that were owed her, no gun, no threats, just the perfect stamina of someone that had determination, and the mountain caved in to her bravery complicated grief life.  That little ratty store left money to all six surviving kids and each were given acreages of land.  One little five feet tall plain ole southern smarts with about a 9th grade education.  And she never quit missing my grandfather.  Outlived him about 25 years.  She never gave up.  One cardiologist told her she needed to walk for exercise.  So she walked that road from one telephone pole to the next and back.  When her main cardiologist found out he was livid.  She was not supposed to be exerting herself like that.  

My marriage could be a very complicated marriage, why shouldn't my grief be the same?  

Guess you need a soup spoon for this salad.  I think I have been angry a lot lately...............maybe that is complicated grief.   

Love you, Marg.......

 

[Cookie]

6 hours ago, kayc said:

Personally, just my opinion for what it's worth , I don't think it's complicated grief.  To me that speaks of something else involved with it.  To me this is common grief, all of us feel like this, good grief!  How many of us feel hunky dory whether it's one year or ten!  The things we used to enjoy no longer bring us that excitement.  We are grieving!  It's not over in two years, it's not over in ten!  We will continue to miss that person that lit up our lives!  I feel like Marg, that they're too quick to assess and label us like we're some kind of specimen.  Maybe that justifies our still seeing a grief counselor when they bill the insurance, so they affix a code.  But really, it means nothing.  We just miss our spouse.

Thanks for the support; I am coming to that conclusion......Cookie

[kayc]

I read Marty's link, it's pretty much as I thought.  But personally, I just don't see how they can label it complicated grief when we all experience it...at least those of us who had a great relationship worth grieving.  This is normal, if you ask me!  To label all of us as complicated grief is to trivialize it for those who truly do have COMPLICATED grief!

[Margm]

Grieving is complicated because we are doing something we don't want to do for reasons we do not want to understand.  The big question is "why?"  And we cannot see the big picture that was painted by Salvador Dali.  This is not our life.  But it is.  One word we have to learn is "acceptance."  Never gonna happen.  Our mate is not here, is not ever coming back, we know this.  Realistically, we have to accept that.  But, we will never really do that.  Not really.  So, we wait.............

[kayc]

22 hours ago, Marg M said:

Grieving is complicated because we are doing something we don't want to do for reasons we do not want to understand.

That's my point, we ALL have to do something we don't want to do when we're grieving and who of us understands any of it!  So if this covers us all, how can we be labeled complicated grievers?  It's just normal grief to me!  I see complicated grief as when something else impacts it like suicide.  I know I'm not a clinical psychologist, but sometimes their terminology doesn't make sense to me and this is one of those situations.  I have my opinions, they can have theirs.

[Margm]

This is my complicated grief.  I'm sorry I put so much personal business on here.  You all know Bri is my first priority.  We are working on solutions.  

Bri will be 18 in 82 days.  

[Gin]

Marge,

I can not offer any worthwhile advice, but I want you to know that I'm in your corner and wishing you all the well wishes I possibly can!

[Cookie]

On ‎05‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 0:24 PM, kayc said:

I read Marty's link, it's pretty much as I thought.  But personally, I just don't see how they can label it complicated grief when we all experience it...at least those of us who had a great relationship worth grieving.  This is normal, if you ask me!  To label all of us as complicated grief is to trivialize it for those who truly do have COMPLICATED grief!

I'm thinking what they mean by complicated grief is that you can't function in day-to-day life just practically speaking.  But the problem is that when you speak of how you feel, and sometimes that can be bad, people interpret that to mean you're not functioning.  When I talk about how I feel inside, it probably sounds scary to someone outside....but, I function, albeit with a heavy heart.  I believe that what we all feel is very normal after losing something so near and precious....like having moved to a foreign country and not knowing how to speak the language....that is that lost feeling and missing so badly the familiar and what made you feel so good.  Cookie

[kayc]

Very well put, Cookie!

[Margm]

On 5/8/2017 at 9:50 AM, kayc said:

 I have my opinions, they can have theirs.

I know people are trained to interpret what we tell them and then call it something.  I wonder sometimes, living in our small papermill town,  the many moods of my dad.  He would have been amenable to going to a psychiatrist then, but that part of the medical establishment had sort of hid in the background after Freud and  Jung, but Kubler-Ross was a psychiatrist also, I believe.   I started studying the psychiatric field of medicine when I started typing the reports.  Pardon the pun, but sometimes the jargon and intentions went way above my head.  I had a third year resident at the medical school start practicing a form of transference on me that I knew was just wrong.  So, I started going to his "teacher" who was an associate professor at the medical school, and she was my doc off and on for 15 years.  Chronic depression.  Yeah, I could tell that.  

When both of my kids were diagnosed bipolar I needed to know if it came from me.  Think the gene came from my dad (if it is true about such things, but medical science finds genes in families that cause so many things, you accept it.  

I started reading the books of Kay Redfield Jamison.  She is a bipolar psychiatrist.  I found many things the same as my daughter, but my son was diagnosed as a rapid cycler and right now he is in depression, and I'm hoping it rapidly goes away.  KRJ's books told me so much.  Then she married a doctor and he passed away.  She wrote a book after his death and I can only think of it like trying to build a boat inside a bottle.  Her husband kept her level, he would chart her moods, and then she lost him.  Bipolar or not, her depression had to be fought just like ours does.  Maybe being a doctor made it double hard for her, losing her husband and trying to go on.  I read the book and learned that a couple of years later, maybe not that long, she remarried.  Another doctor.  I do hope she is happy.  Why does it matter?  Because if this doctor found hope and a life with someone else, maybe there is hope that we may just find ourselves.  Maybe not happiness so much as just discover who we are besides a grieving widow or widower. 

To me, in my weird mind, her grief must have been very complicated since she lost the very person who kept her more on an even path of her bipolar disorder.  (Do we call this a disease?)  Certainly it is coded as something.  

The emotional part of our brain makes us all complicated, and this grief makes for such an empty life, even with people all around you that need you.  And, when you cannot help everyone, that makes it even more complicated because you need time to help yourself.  And, you feel guilty for needing that time, so you give it up.  

Another soup spoon word salad.

[Cookie]

Marg:  I like your soup spoon word salads; some really important things are said in them.  I relate to grief making your life feel empty even with people all around.  I've been trying to wrap my head around this phenomenon.  Having you state it helped to clarify it for me.  I see lots of people and talk to family often but still feel so empty and alone.  Now the question is, how to rectify that?  Keep talking.  Fondly, Cookie

[MartyT]

51 minutes ago, Cookie said:

I see lots of people and talk to family often but still feel so empty and alone.  Now the question is, how to rectify that?

Lots of suggestions offered here, Cookie (including links listed at the base): Loneliness and Solitude in Grief ♥

[Margm]

We are all just fighting the battle.  The only way we lose is if we give up.  And no, that did not give me one oz. of enthusiasm.  Gotta read Marty's "Loneliness" above.

[kevin]

My interpretation of complicated Grief is there was a pre-existing mental problem before the loss....and this compounded the problem ten times ...I saw this with a Drug Addict on four separate medications when Spouse passed away......uncontrollable crying for days on end, it was scary......cleaned out system after months of detox than normal course Grief appears to be the norm..........

[Margm]

Kevin, I'm not sure for certain that there was not a preexisting mental condition for myself, so perhaps mine is rather complicated.

[Gwenivere]

I've lived with panic disorder for 30 years.  My real pre existing condition was/is watching my best friend lose his life.  I hate labels  in grief as they try to catagorize us.  Our relationship with our partner is so unique.  It cant be compared to others beyond what we miss and experience because of it.  So what might be complicated for me might not for another and vice versa.  All I want from my counselor and people I run into is validation that this is most changing experience I will ever face emotionally.