Just curious

[CharKath]

I don't know how the afterlife works, but I certainly hope there really is something after death. And I've had this situation happen several times now and I'm wondering if anyone else has had something along this same line happen to them. It started at the cemetery. We're all standing there looking at the casket (it was a beautiful sunny day) and through the crowd and up over the casket flies this pretty black swallowtail butterfly ( large black butterfly with yellow spots in its wings). No big deal just made you think because Charley always wanted to fly. Afterwards we went back to my house for a lunch. As we're sitting in lawn chairs out in the yard eating, here came another black swallowtail butterfly. It flew right through the middle of us and floated out across the fields. Now here comes this year. My first field of corn I was planting, I'd just finished planting the end rows and was starting the center and i was feeling quite bad in tears, when between me and the tractors smokestack flies a black swallowtail butterfly. Now I'm beginning to wonder. Yesterday I had started baleing a field of hay and all by myself as everyone was busy again and of course I was feeling really lousy. When you bale hay you look back at the baler more than you look ahead to make sure the strings are tied and its feeding in OK and up comes a black swallowtail butterfly. It hovered right in front of the baler and stayed that way for quite a ways before it floated away. (It was the only butterfly I saw that day.) I actually couldn't help myself and said hello Charley, I miss you. That butterfly made me feel better, but it made me cry too. I was wondering if anyone else has this sort of thing go on. Just curious.

[Polly]

I had the same thing happen to me shortly after my dad died. He lives 4 away and I went home to visit. As we were leaving the cemetery this butterfly was flying right in front of my windshield. It stayed there for a few minutes and it never hit the windshield as I was driving. I wondered if it was my dad.

[Clematis]

I had some things like that happen with rabbits after my mother died. She loved rabbits-more like was obsessed with them. A rabbit would come running up to me on a trail somewhere and stop 6-8 feet away and stare at me. This happened several times, and I got the feeling that she was trying to tell me something. I finally started talking to these rabbits, asking them what they were trying to tell me. I finally got the idea that she was telling me to take care of my dad, which I was doing. It stopped for a long time, and then a couple of months before my dad died, it started again with the rabbits. I was afraid she was coming to tell me that she was tired of waiting and wanted my dad to join her. But no, that wasn't it. And this time the message was more clear, and what I got from it was that she "always did love me", which was a surprise. 

When my dad died, he was much more communicative, and I have heard him actually talking to me. Especially in the beginning I hear him talking to me, but if I am particularly upset, I hear him talking to me. He has offered advice, nagged me to take care of things about my car, and said he was sorry to have left me-that he just couldn't do it anymore. I have asked him a lot of questions about what I should do, but he doesn't answer questions. On the other hand he wasn't good about that when he was alive. Me: "What do you think about ...?" Him: ...silence...

[mittam99]

About a month after Tammy died, I was outside in the front yard, when a pretty butterfly appeared. A couple things were unusual. For one, it's pretty rare we see butterflies that early in the season. And two, this butterfly seemed to be following me wherever I went. Matter of fact, it tried to come in the house with me, except I closed the door before it could come in. 

The whole incident had me thinking. I looked up butterflies and read that they often are a symbol of life after death. And then my grief laden brain took over and I started feeling guilty that I "ran away" from the butterfly. If by chance, that was Tammy, would she somehow think I didn't want to be near her? Which of course would never be the case. I'm pretty sure she knew I was just running away from the pretty flying insect.

[MartyT]

See also this thread:  Signs/messages

You might appreciate these as well:

Voices of Experience: The Porcelain Starfish

Signs

[mittam99]

This seems to be as good a place as any to document all the things that have happened in my life since Tammy died that give me hope she's still here. And that she's trying her best to show me she's still here and loves me and is trying to help and communicate with me...

1. Driving to Illinois to go to Tammy's funeral I fell asleep at the wheel on the highway going over 70mph. I awoke to the sound my car violently smashing  into a concrete construction wall. The metal to concrete sound was horrific and I knew the damage to my car was severe. Yet, inspecting it at the next rest stop revealed not a scratch. Miraculous? I think somehow, my angel Tammy was watching over me.

2. After returning home to Maryland, I was talking on the phone to my niece and I was getting upset. The topic? Katie's "meanness" towards Tammy. I was getting upset when out of the blue, the ceiling fan turned itself on to the highest setting. That was a fan Tammy loved. It was as if she was trying to get my attention and tell me to calm down.

3. Flickering lights that often appear when I'm thinking about Tammy.

4. That butterfly that kept following me wherever I went and tried to come in the house with me.

5. Often, I'll be cooking something in the kitchen, downstairs. Our bedroom floor has a particular spot that creaks, near the bathroom. I'd often hear Tammy getting out of bed and the unmistakable sound of her walking on the creaky spot.  Even today, almost 16 months since she passed, I still hear those unmistakable creaky sounds that can only be made if someone is walking on that exact spot.

6. Things moving on their own. There is a picture on the wall in our bedroom that always seems to be crooked. It never used to do that. Now I straighten in out almost weekly. I still have some of Tammy's combs on the bathroom vanity. Sometimes, they have changed position... slightly. At first I thought I was imagining it, but now I make a note of their position to see if they move and they have on occasion.

7. The broken entryway blind. This blind had been stuck in the open position for years. No amount of tugging or cajoling would budge it. A while back I tried to fix it again. This time I asked Tammy if she could help. It was worth a try, right? To my amazement, with no effort at all on my part, the blind closed easily. I fell to my knees. That convinced me that, indeed, Tammy is still in my life at helping me and loving me still.

There may be a few other things I'm forgetting but all these incidents give me the feeling that this isn't just crazy coincidence. I believe Tammy and her amazing, loving, smiling spirit... her essence, is somehow, some way, still with me.

 

[KATPILOT]

That  Signs/messages thread is a powerful one Marty yet it didn't last long.  I wasn't to join this site till months later. Perhaps we should bring it out for some air.  I have not felt Kathy in my home for several months now and I actually feared she had left forever. One thing that I know is that I know nothing about what she is doing or how it is on the other side. I just speculate but I hate the feeling of being selfish in missing her presence so I try not to have those thoughts should she perceive how I feel. The thing is, and it has happened before, that when I go long enough without a sign, I start grieving as if she just left. How screwed up is that?  Everyone here has heard me talk about how I am functioning pretty well and growing stronger trying to live on but yesterday I came home from work feeling a little more blue than usual and that infamous ceiling fan was on for the first time since Christmas. I broke down right in the room and I don't mean just teared up. Had anyone seen me they would have called 911. The joy literally tore me apart. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. Lately I have been having intense dreams having something directly connected with events in my life that she was part of even though she wasn't in them. I almost never remember if I dreamed at night but these dreams followed me into my day. Then the fan. Always the contact but never the message. I can only hope that I don't drive her away for not wanting to hurt me. Perhaps it's time again to talk to someone about what's going on with me. I think you know what I am talking about.

[KATPILOT]

Mitch, without a doubt I know she's still with you.

[MartyT]

I do know what you're talking about, Stephen, and I think if you're feeling a need to do so, you are wise to check in with that someone about what's going on with you. Sometimes we just need a tune-up, so we can keep going 

[kayc]

I have learned to go by faith rather than signs (although they're a comfort) because we have no control over whether we'll get signs or when, but I think it's really good that we keep an open mind to possibilities.  None of us knows everything about how afterlife will be but I believe it is all the same.

[brat#2]

I had signs a few months after Dale passed, floors creaking when I wasn't walking on them, the back "locked" door opened a couple of times, but then nothing, until a couple of days ago.  We have these lighted ceramic décor and of course sometimes the light bulb would go out and Dale would change it, because they are very difficult to change.  There had been a bad storm come through and lost power a couple of times and the last time it came on, one of bulbs didn't light back up.  I kept putting off changing it because it is such a pain, so after about 3 days of it being out, it just started working again.  I thank Dale for making it work so I wouldn't have to change it.

Joyce

 

[Clematis]

I swear I hear my dad talking to me, and I have heard him talking to me since he died. Sometimes I talk to him out loud and sometimes it's more like thoughts directed at him inside my head. I have the impression that it doesn't really matter-he hears me just the same. I have had people tell me that it's just re-runs of things he said before or my projections of what I think he would say. But they don't get it, and I really don't care what they think. Some things you have to experience in order to understand, no matter what you think you know. I have had friends who went through cancer treatments and were terrified that they were going to die. I can understand why they were afraid, but I really can't way I know what that's like or what I would do in their place.

Just one example about my dad's talking to me...something was wrong with one of the airbags in my car. I wasn't sure at first what that particular trouble light meant because I had never seen it. I talked to him about it several times, and he didn't say much about it. He was very tired and could barely to manage the most basic activities of daily living. This went on for a few years. He never had much to say about it, and I had no idea if this was a big deal or not. But after he died, I felt his presence with me in the car. He was there in the car with me and he was no longer weighed down by a body with Parkinson's. He saw the light whenever he got in the car, and he kept telling me, "You need to get that taken care of. You need to take care of that." Over and over and over. He also nagged me about the bald tires on the back until I replaced them, and then there is the "Go get some gas. No, go now. I can't rescue you if you run out. Go get some gas." And I do. 

I can't explain it and so I just take it at face value. I think he has deeply loved me ever since I was born and I think he's still looking out for me. And sometimes he has a better view than he did when he was alive...

[Clematis]

4 hours ago, kayc said:

I have learned to go by faith rather than signs (although they're a comfort) because we have no control over whether we'll get signs or when, but I think it's really good that we keep an open mind to possibilities.  None of us knows everything about how afterlife will be but I believe it is all the same.

I live in Sedona, which is a very spiritual, even woo-woo place. People talk about all kinds of things I'm not sure of... But I hear about a lot of people talk about how those who have passed are right here beside us where they can see us but we can't see them. They talk about how there is some kind of veil in between...

[kayc]

That's what I've heard.  When I'm talking about my going by faith in this instance I am not referring to religion or spirituality but of a belief.  The Bible describes faith as the evidence of things believed in but not seen, I think that is apt in my usage of the word.

[Clematis]

35 minutes ago, kayc said:

 ...faith as the evidence of things believed in but not seen, I think that is apt in my usage of the word.

I think so too. I don't see him, but I hear him and I feel his presence. To me that is more real than those ashes across the room in the jar, because it is my own experiences. How do I know that is his ashes? I wasn't there. I supposed it's true because I don't think people in the cremation business make up stuff like that. I think it's more likely that he is dead than alive, even though I didn't personally see the body. And I have his watch, which he was wearing when he died, and it was returned to me. I think if he was alive he would have contacted me by now. So I think I kind of have to believe he is dead, even though the death certificate was signed by his own doctor, who also did not see the body. I am not absolutely certain, just fairly sure. But I totally believe that he talks to me because I hear him.

[Gin]

I have not heard from Al at all.  We were so very close and I am surprised I have not.  I want very much to, but I know I would be devastated when he left again.  Do not know which is the worst!

[kayc]

Gin,

I don't hear voices (if I did someone might haul me off), it's more of a realizing he exists in my heart, if nothing else by the aftermath of having known him so intimately and being so intertwined with him that we cannot separate that!

[Clematis]

I think it's different for everybody, but what I do know for sure is that when you love someone and they're gone, the relationship changes but it doesn't stop. The love is still there.

[KATPILOT]

1 hour ago, Gin said:

I have not heard from Al at all.  We were so very close and I am surprised I have not.  I want very much to, but I know I would be devastated when he left again.  Do not know which is the worst!

I don't know either Gin.

[Patty65]

Dear CharKath,

For the past week, I have been on a mission to learn more about all the arguments on both sides about NDEs and Afterlife.  I expected and planned on it giving me comfort, because Ron has felt so far away from me, and I've felt so utterly get-me-out-of-here-I-can't-take-it-anymore Alone.  Last weekend, I got a subscription to Audible.com and I listened to "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander.   NYT Bestseller.  Then another one by him, "Map of Heaven".Then somewhere in there, I read some doubtful reviews after looking for meditation music that he had talked about in his second book, and saw that everything Dr. Alexander produced was super expensive and I started to wonder about him.  So, then I started listening to "Life After Life" by Dr. Raymond Moody (1st edition 1975), and I am half way through it.  I hear there is another good one by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, but it is not available for listening and that is all I can accomplish with my self-induced manic schedule.

I've had a lot of signs in these 4 months, especially at the beginning.  Mostly technology related, from certain songs playing on their own (Anticipation by Carly Simon), to "Ron's (iPhone) Location" showing up as sent from me as other texts to our mutual friends.  And other things.  An alarm got set on my phone, minutes "after" he had gone, when I was alone with him in the Hospice room.

I get like that -- completely obsessive about a topic -- and I'm actually not sure it is and has been a good thing on this topic.  Or too soon.  Or too late.  Because I am not finding in any of them what I need.  They are all about how we should not fear death.  But NONE of them has talked about this "Afterlife" from the perspective of comforting those left behind.  Yes, I say, "Great!" there's a good possibility of Ron being in another, amazing place in his 'journey'.  But (selfishly) I think, but what about me?  Is he here?  Is he off engrossed with all the 'eternal' pleasures and ecstasy?  All the poeple he knew before, that new world we cannot be part of? What about The Two Musketeers... US?  JUST Us??? And it just HURTS more.  And yet I'm obsessed, still searching for the connection I can never find, and unable to stop myself.

I have no answers. I am scrambling to find some, and I'm not sure I'll ever know, and it may be doing me more harm than good, given I've stopped being able to eat or sleep much again, since I started this obsession.  For as much as what I have listened to has told me from the people who have experienced death and come back, they would not commit suicide to go back there, because of their strong messages they received, that we are to spread love and acquire knowledge in this life on earth.  Yet I have not experienced that, and I'm like -- OK I'm ready.  And if it is not there, oh well.  It is dangerous in my state to be listening, yet I'm having trouble stopping myself.  So, I'm walking a fine line.

I am, however, finally going outside at night and looking at the stars more, like we used to do together, and searching for the answers up there.  I search for him even to be invisibly near me, surrounding me, and my muddly logic keeps it distant.  I hope for a time, or a message from all this listening, that I can believe that he is near me, watching over me.  But with all the grand descriptions, it's hard to trust that he would be here in this mundane world with me.  And then I admonish myself for having any hope to find him in any form in my life.

Patty

[Patty65]

9 hours ago, KATPILOT said:

The thing is, and it has happened before, that when I go long enough without a sign, I start grieving as if she just left. How screwed up is that?

I don't see that is a screwed up.  It makes total sense from my reality.  I remember when the signs were coming very fast at the beginning of this nightmare, it could make me smile (a real smile) -- which seemed so, so foreign to feel my lips and face move into that position.  It may have faded to tears of the loss, but the ache only grows stronger if I feel him drifting farther away (eg. no signs).  And, after a while, I get so panicked that I've had the last one I'll ever have.  

[Gin]

Patty,

i have been obsessing about the same thing.  Read books...Heaven, .The Heaven Answer Book, Heaven and the After Life, What happens After Death, Between Heaven and Earth, What Really Happens When We Die.   Some of these books scared me.  Got no really comforting answers.  My pastor came over last week and I sprung all this on him. I am surprised that he did not run out of the house.  He said that he did not know all the details, but that God is a loving God and all will be good.  I had very specific issues...Al and I were widowed before we were married.  Will I be with him?  That is what we both wanted, but..,. I respected the pastor because who really knows?  At least he was honest with me.  

Gin

[iPraiseHim]

I have shared several special moments like the mocking bird that would sit in the tree by the front door and sing away as I was leaving for work after my wife died.  of the dragonflies in the spring that would hoover around me, especially the colorful ones.  I watched my wife pet a dragonfly with her fingers when we were working together after cleaning a home.  I don't know what it all means but it somehow gives me comfort.  I don't' sense my wife's presence anywhere except the two startling dreams in the first couple of weeks after her death. I believe I will see her in heaven.  I believe we seek, grasp, and cling to what gives us hope as we traverse this grief journey and that's okay.  Shalom - George 

[KATPILOT]

Yes George it is okay.   

[Clematis]

I think this is a really hard thing. It's really hard to know what happens after someone dies, and even though I hear my dad's voice, I don't really know where he is or what's going on or how long that will keep happening or anything else. I have way more questions than answers. I don't really have any answers. I don't sense my mother near me-except a couple of times. Is she across the country with my sisters? I don't really think so, and they haven't heard from her. Is my dad with my mother? I don't really know but somehow I have the sense that she is with her father and her father's mother, the people I believed she loved above all others from when she was born. Where is she? Can my dad spiritually be with my mother and me both? Are they far apart from each other? What is he doing? I ask him questions and he doesn't answer. When I become very distraught, I feel him settling around me in a way that's hard to describe. It is as subtle as adding or removing humidity to a room, but I don't feel it-I sense it. It is as if it had begun raining outside and I couldn't really hear it-I just have the idea that it is raining. And sometimes I hear his voice and I sense the words in a way that is different than if a live person was in the room talking to me.

It's possible that I am more sensitive to this because I have synesthesia and some odd sensitivities, I don't know. But all of this, while interesting, doesn't really do anything for me. It's not that it makes me feel better or keeps me company. Well he probably has nudged me to get things fixed on the car or not run out of gas or something, but it doesn't really make me feel any better or comfort me, although I think he is trying. Maybe it's a help to know that he is trying, but he's still gone and he's not coming back. Maybe it's good to know that I will see him again some day, and I've realized how much he was bonded to me since the beginning. But right now, it's not what I need. I need him and he's never coming back as a live person to be with me however much he may be hovering around.