Addicted to forum

[Margm]

I just looked at the forum after seeing about Butch's mom.  All of the replies on the right are mine.  I do have an addiction gene and personality too.  

[enna]

As do many of us, dear Marg. You keep us thinking and often make me smile. Humor is a wonderful "tool" to have. Thanks for what you share. This new life is hard. It's just hard. 

Anne

[Margm]

Anne, sometimes I don't have this sinking feeling.  Not a happy feeling, but a numb robot non-feeling.  These past few days I have had this "I cannot do anymore" feeling.  Butch's mom was 77, she was tired.  I am 73, I am so beyond tired right now, but I cannot show that to my granddaughter.  She told me yesterday "Mamol, please just sit down for a little while, your doing too much."  The thing was, I was doing but nothing showed that I had done anything.  I am going to try to tie that knot in the rope and hold on because I cannot give up.  My granddaughter depends on me.  How can I give up.  Billy would never forgive me.

[kayc]

Marg,

It doesn't surprise me you're feeling that way, you have way too much on your plate!

[Clematis]

Marg, you need to rest up. A lot. Seriously. From what I can tell, you are always moving so fast no one can even see you!

Here is something to scare you into resting up. I heard on the radio that today if you are 65 or older today your life expectancy by statistics is in the 90's. If you live another 20 years, don't you think you'll need to be better rested to get through that? I don't mean to be flippant, but you have every reason to be tired and you have no idea what is around the corner.  You may need your strength. It seems likely that there are others who could be doing more so that you would get more rest.

Marg, you seem like a very generous and kind person who puts a lot of energy into helping others. But if you don't take care of yourself, you can't help others. Also, it sounds like you have some people who would like to help you. I think it is very hard for people who are the "helpers", "healers", and "givers" in the world to accept help from others, but I think it is critical. I must admit that I am one of them. I am not yet 65, but getting closer, so I may not have a life expectancy in my 90's, but then again I may. There is a lot of longevity on both sides of my family, even for people who spent their lives smoking and slamming scotch. I figure I have to pace myself and am working hard on that - accepting help from people who offer, delegating, asking for help, and not always jumping in to do more than I ought. It was hard to ask for and accept wheelchair support through the airport on my recent trip to Hawaii, but I figured it would be better than the possible alternative of collapsing and having my traveling companions and anyone else around having to deal with that!

[KATPILOT]

She's right!

[Margm]

Please, let me be the poster girl for "do not move the first year" after death.  I know statistics.  I know Billy had one more year to go for his statistics  I keep singing "Please Mr. Custer, I don't want to go."  

Thank you all for reminding me.  I am not being sarcastic.

Today is my son's birthday.  In 1962, I was at a small country hospital.  I had insane food cravings and had gained up to 150 pounds.  No AC I lay on a mattress between two sets of windows in a Louisiana hot summer.  They put me in the hospital because of one pork chop.  It put so much fluid on me they feared for both  our lives.  Then they brought on labor (he was 10 days late) with two doses of castor oil and orange juice.  Seems like I have always been dragging along right before modern things were going on.  I was 18, gonna be 19 in August.  A kid having a kid.  Doctor had not come in yet, knew I was in labor from first dose of castor oil.  Took me five years to get pregnant again.  And, I was not even trying.  Woman down the hall the next day asked me if I had had that "damn baby" yet.  Seems they were giving me drugs where I would sleep between pains.  Husband of one year, minus one week, emptying bed pans constantly.  Me screaming "I don't want this damn baby."  

We all made it through a lot of tough times, until one of us decided to drop out.  It seems a short rough ride

Kind of reminds me of right now.  

[Margm]

I don't remember "Green Onions" but remember all the rest. (Okay, went to You Tube, of course I remember it and Booker T.) I am old as dirt.

[Clematis]

1 hour ago, Marg M said:

Please, let me be the poster girl for "do not move the first year" after death.  

I'll join you on that one...I moved out of my own house and my dad's house gradually-starting before his death and continuing right afterwards. Now I'm trying to move back into my own house, having somehow in the middle of the moves having consolidated our two overstuffed condos into one as well as painted mine and replaced the carpet and a couple of appliances. Most of the work on this is being accomplished in ten weeks, which started with me being involved in a car accident (not my fault) and a head injury, which has not helped my focus or ability to do the physical work.

When I told my dad's attorney this was my plan, she thought it would be amazing if I could pull that off. My sisters came out to my dad's service in March; they were here for four days, during which they drank some wine, watched me, complained that they weren't getting more money, looked overwhelmed about that whole thing, and then bolted for the other side of the country, from where they have had very little to say to me.

I have had a fair amount of help, most of which I have paid for with money from my dad's estate (half of which is mine-which means I won't have it later, and my sisters get to help pay for it whether they want to or not). I just couldn't see any other way to do this. I work during the school year and so I came up with this plan whereby I would do this during the summer when I wasn't working. It seemed like I could live in the relative calm of a functioning house (his) while I worked on mine. I suppose I could have let his house just sit here for a year and pay the mortgage and utilities...and then worked on moving next summer. But that would have been even more expensive. I think my sisters thought I should have heaved all of his stuff into a storage unit, put his house on the market, and then dealt with my own house while living in it. It's amazing the things people come up with that have no information.

Anyway, I'm stuck in the middle of the river at this point...about halfway through the summer. I really need to pull this off, but I think maybe it was kind of crazy, and I still don't know if it is even possible. I just know that at the beginning of the school year I am going to be crazy-busy with more work than last year and I'll sure be relieved if I am actually back living in my own house by then.

Marg, I'm not sure I understand why you moved when you did, but I have the general impression that you felt desperate, as did I...

[Margm]

Laura, before Billy got sick (although he must have already been sick) we had started moving things out.  We were getting ready to move into the RV and start what we had began nearly 20 years ago.  We were RVers, we were never homesteaders.

This house is a responsibility.  One of my friend's told me I would now be able to find myself.  Did not know I was lost but then it came to me, I have never been on my own.  Still not on my own, but fighting to be.  We are not homesteaders.  No house anywhere has ever had ropes or chains tied to me except a Holiday Rambler  5th wheel, that when we sold it and moved into a brix and stix house, I knew that was the end of the most wonderful part of our life and we went back to being the responsible adults we had been for over 50 years.  There was a song "A Time for Us" that was our song.  It never really came to fruition.  There was never a time for us.  Right now, there is not a time for me.  I look at the members who have no one.  Then I look at myself who still is depended upon by grown children, grandchildren, a sister and a 95-year-old mother.  I have to  ignore some of this and I do feel guilty.  Making a way for myself, I have spent almost all of Billy's life insurance helping these people out.  I found out my burial insurance was only accidental death insurance, but we had paid for it for years and years.  I wonder if Billy knew.  

I find myself knocking around in this over 2000 sq foot home on over two acres that I can not/do not want to keep up.  The quietness drives me crazy.  The nature loving we used to share, now it is a drag and I find myself afraid of nature more than crime.  I did not claim to be sane.  

I might disappear from the forum at any time.  If I do, I will be joined with Billy or in a padded room somewhere.  An exaggeration told by an old lady that prefers laughs to tears.  Maybe.......maybe not.

[Widowedbysuicide]

My laughing is my tears.

I have never been a person to cry.  Weep, water leaking from eyes yes, sobbing or making noise of any kind NO.

Please look kindly after yourself.  There has to be a reason why we have been left behind.  I wonder if we are held back here until we complete what ever it is we are here for?  

You are a very strong lady; you have given everything of yourself for other people for as long as you have been alive: and maybe this is your time to keep everything for yourself instead of giving it away for free.  Is that a song?  It should be!

hugs to you friend, Marita

[KATPILOT]

2 hours ago, Widowedbysuicide said:

 There has to be a reason why we have been left behind.  

Yes Marita, there just has to be. I wish I knew the answer because I have been haunted by it since day one. I also believe it will present itself one day.

[Gwenivere]

I wish I could beleive that, Kat.  It eludes me too and there I'd a fear it is nothing more than biology.  

[mittam99]

4 hours ago, Widowedbysuicide said:

There has to be a reason why we have been left behind.

None of us know that answer. The only thing we know is that we are here. And our beloved is somewhere else...

The question is... where? Some believe with death comes nothingness. It's the end. In my heart though, I can't fathom the possibility that someone with the incredible love and courage and positive spirit that Tammy exuded, could possibly cease to exist in some way. I've also had a number of events where I feel Tammy has helped me, even though she has died. That gives me a sense of hope that, yes, I will be with Tammy again someday in some way.

For now though, my Tammy exists in my heart, in my memories, and in my soul.

Mitch

[KATPILOT]

Perhaps it is just biology Gwen. If we live on because our body wasn't finished functioning, then we still have that question "what now?".  If we answer that question by doing something, anything, then is that not an answer to why we were left behind? What if one day you helped someone you never would have met had you not lost your husband and you helped them. What if because your life was changed, you ended up teaching a young person something that stuck with them for the rest of their lives one day to help them get through a very difficult time? The possibilities are enormous. Our loss could be someone else's gain. Often people of faith say it was God's plan. I call it fate and I know I am quite different from most people here so don't jump on me guys but once I accepted fate for what it is, things started falling into place. Today I think that every step I have taken led me to meeting Kathy and every step since then has led me to where I am now. I'm going to make a difference to the financial well being of this grief support web site by organizing the art auction and dozens of you helping with that are doing the same. I would never have done that or even found my way here if Kathy had not died. It just occurred to my simple brain that perhaps I have found a reason why I'm still here. Maybe it was so simple I ran by it without seeing..............or perhaps the reason is yet to come. Every one of us here who welcomes a newbie and veterans who give comfort and insight through experience are serving a purpose they never signed up for.  Imagine what we'll do tomorrow.

58 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

 I've also had a number of events where I feel Tammy has helped me, even though she has died.

 Mitch, sometimes they even put an idea or solution to a problem in our minds while we sleep.  I saw this in action with Kathy's parents  after she was gone. I often wonder how I figured things out on certain issues myself when I woke up with the answer. Yes Tammy's still around. Remember of course that death cannot stop true love.

[kayc]

I don't believe it's nothingness, that is too desolate for me to ponder, it doesn't fit with all those light at the end of the tunnel stories of people who have died, albeit briefly (I am one of them).  I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that we continue, I may not know all the details but I aim to find out with George by my side!

[Clematis]

I really feel my dad talking to me, but it's hardly the same as a conversation. I get little pieces here and there. This morning I was going out back to water the plants at his house, after which I had to water the front over at his house and then both over at my house, before driving his big old boat of a car, stuffed to the gills to a thrift store in Flagstaff. I was feeling this was really a lot to have to water front and back at both houses. I heard him say, "I'm sorry I'm not there to help you with the watering." That was it. I feel him around and I get the feeling that he is supportive of how I'm handling things, but it really is overwhelming to handle his affairs and figure out what to do with his stuff. I really wish he could help me figure out what to do other than "just keep plowing through it".

So, his car wouldn't start once I got up there, and it took AAA two hours to get there to get it going. Once it was going I drove it to Hope Depot 1/2 hour away to look at refrigerators on the fourth of July sale. The salesman ended up talking to me about how to get under the thing and dust it off to see if it ran any better. My original idea was to take my dad's fridge to my house and swap them since his seems fine. Then I thought I'd buy a new one. Then this guy is advising me on how to fix mine. Maybe I should go back to my original idea of swapping them. Where is my dad when I need him?

[KATPILOT]

Little pieces are still conversation.  In the early days of WW II, at best we could get one word out of ten from Japanese communications but it was enough to turn Midway into the turning point of the war. If only we were as smart with this one Laura but we can keep trying. I've been up since midnight because I was awakened by something Kathy did. She's been out of touch for many months but I know she was saying something in the best way she can.  I wish I could figure it out but..............How nice it would be to have a full blown apparition with her speaking but I guess it just doesn't works that way.

[Clematis]

No, it works however it works. I'm sorry it doesn't work that way for you. I do appreciate your story about the comm in WWII. It's an interesting and pertinent story. Kathy is probably trying to tell you something, but I know what you mean-sometimes it's hard to get the message clearly enough. Some people get stuff in dreams and others when they are awake. Who knows-maybe my dad talks to me in dreams as well and I just don't remember the dreams. There is probably some reason I woke up this morning crying and feeling all alone in the world. Maybe there's a good reason-having lost my dad, my aunt, my painting teacher, and a few other people, as well as contact with my sisters. 

I am fairly much alone, except for my cat. It's been a hard weekend. After a trip with friends, which was really nice, I came home to an empty house-except Lena-and memories of the ten years I had here in this condo with my dad. And now I have a pressing urgency to dismantle his house and get the most significant part of it over to my condo, having somehow jettisoned half of what the two of us owned, since both condos were overstuffed before he died. 

So I came back here to be alone and deal with this big mess alone, while suffering the effects of the car accident-related head injury and another blow to the head while in Hawaii. And my friends who were helping me are out of town. Bonita is off with her husband, and Greg is shooting a movie-actually two of them-in CA. Bonita will probably be back tomorrow, but Greg won't be back for another week. We talked on the phone last night, and he was very helpful, encouraging and offering advice about what to do next and how to go about it...

I had been feeling better emotionally, but this morning I feel like I am back at the beginning emotionally. My dad and I were totally a duo and I always had someone to talk to, do things with, share meals with, go places with, and everything else. He totally had my back and vice versa... I knew it wouldn't last forever but I sure wasn't prepared to lose him and all of that. As I write this, I feel him come into the room, sit in the chair next to me and say, "I'm so sorry-I couldn't do it any longer-it was just too hard. I never wanted to leave you." I love that he talks to me, but I have his spirit in the chair next to me and his ashes in a lovely blue and white urn across the room. It's just not the same as having him with me in one piece. He keeps telling me that I'm doing just fine with this project I never wanted, but I sure don't feel like it!

[Margm]

Laura, you do have friends.  There always seems like there might be someone to help you.  I think we get our most help from within.  I have a friend of my daughter's and she is coming to "help" me.  But, she told me to just leave it as is and she will "take care of things."  She says this as she is lifting up things and opening cabinets, and being a little touchy.  And, maybe I am being a little "touchy" also.  Yesterday I was asked if anyone had claimed Billy's four hats I talk to..  I said "yes, I have."  

Sometimes help does not come from friends.  Sometimes we have to do the work ourselves.  And now, I will tackle the books again.  That is my hardest job (I have Billy's things packed.)  But books are magnets that stick to my hands and make me remember, and some of those memories are good, I just need to shake the glue off my hands when it picks one up.  

Billy did teach me many things over the years.  I will never forget how to use the knot to tie a fish hook on the line.  My hands shake so bad now I cannot thread a needle anymore and cannot tie on that fish hook.  But, I do think I can tie that knot that I need right now that I am at the end of my rope, the one I have to hold on to.

[enna]

 The grief of losing our spouses will always be with us, Marg, but the good memories start to take over and there are days when you even smile about something that the two of you did together. You keep holding onto that rope because your Billy tied the knot for you.

Anne

[Clematis]

Thanks, Marg-that was very sweet, and you are right I do have friends, and losing my father has really clarified which of them are true friends and which are more "social" friends...I don't know what else to call it. Some of them are great for the good times, but can't hack the tears that go on and on. Others have tried to help, but it seems clear to them that "this is junk and this is trash and someone else could be using this better than you", and while I have a clear need to jettison a TON of stuff, I need to be the final arbiter of what's to go and what's to stay, which may change tomorrow. Initially I kept the bookshelf in the 'great room' of his condo exactly as it had been, but then two days ago I looked at it with one of my helpers and realized that most of it could go, as these books were mostly self-help medical books that someone had sold him (I would look up that kind of stuff online rather than leaf through a book that was 5-10 years old). There were also a lot of books that belonged to my mother's father. He had such an extensive library that he developed his own cataloging system. Jack's books were always considered to be family treasures just because they had been Jack's. But since he died in the 1960's, they are all really old. Some are from the 1800's! At this point all but a few have found new homes. I have an allergy to book mold and they are not worth risking my health over. Also, I had plenty of my own books that were sitting on the floor at my house with no place to go. I hope to end up with a few bookshelves full of books I need, use, and/or treasure with no stacks on the floor. Hopefully it will be a pleasant co-mingling of my dad's books and my own.

Last night I looked in the bottom shelves of a tall bookshelves with doors on the bottom--and while most of that can probably go, I found a small collection of children's books that were obviously selected by my mother to read to her grandchildren. Historically, I have had a great deal of pain and difficulty with a mother (gone for 11 years) who was so infatuated with her grandchildren but not her own children. One day when I was about 25, she told me that none of the three of her daughters had done anything that she could be proud of to the smallest degree and it pained her to have nothing that she could brag or tell her friends about. But when her first grandchild started to learn to read, she was ecstatic-it made her so happy that she had a grandchild who could read. Anyway, when I found those beautifully illustrated books, it touched something in my heart that had been far far away from me...

[Margm]

Your talking about your mother made me smile.  I have got to say this, and yes I did live over it, but while my mom made my clothes until I was 15 (i had steady hands and took to sewing my own clothes at a very young age), when she made me something to wear her only refrain was "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."  I knew I was the prettiest "sow's ear" around, so it did not do anything but make me learn to make my own clothes.  I was just so damn sexy too.  

[Margm]

1 hour ago, enna said:

You keep holding onto that rope because your Billy tied the knot for you.

Anne, that was so sweet.  I cried, but only because it is true.  

[Clematis]

40 minutes ago, Marg M said:

Your talking about your mother made me smile.  I have got to say this, and yes I did live over it, but while my mom made my clothes until I was 15 (i had steady hands and took to sewing my own clothes at a very young age), when she made me something to wear her only refrain was "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."  I knew I was the prettiest "sow's ear" around, so it did not do anything but make me learn to make my own clothes.  I was just so damn sexy too.  

It is so painful when your mother says things like that about you, her daughter, and the sting lingers. It sounds like your mother was envious of you. Mine was as well-and probably my sisters as well. She was beautiful and smart and creative. When she was in college the guys called her "the body". She really had it all. But by the time I was in high school I had all of that as well as youth. I never had a perfect figure, but was athletic and so she picked at that. I was "the pretty one" and "the smart one". My younger sister was "the athletic one" which was easy to be since my older sister and I were totally uncoordinated, but then I ended up being the actual athletic one once I found individual sports that required stamina and strength--and no flying balls, teammates, or having to aim. My older sister was "the creative one", and people raved over her art and music; I was considered a zero in both music and art, and my sister actually demanded at some point that I give both up. Obviously I never did, continued in athletics and went on to get two advanced degrees that I used to make a living. Oh, the family b.s...!  I guess every family has it. Marg, I'm sorry that she said those things to you...she should have been thrilled to have you as a daughter. As far as I can tell, you are an asset to the planet-and always have been!