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Dream Or Devil?


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I've been reading posts where people have been helped by their deceased spouse or have seen them in dreams. Halloween is coming and last year was my first experience with seeing Bob. I was told the veil between the living and the dead is thinnest during this time of the year. When I saw him, and it was only his smile, I felt immediately comforted and told him, "There you are, finally, I've been waiting for you. Please look after the kids." And then it was done. I was having trouble sleeping and am sure I was awake, but may have been somewhat delirious and was too afraid to tell anyone that I had "seen" Bob lest they think I had gone over the edge.

I finally told my sister, who has been the "religious" one in our family. She said that it was the devil, preying on me because I was vulnerable and that there are no instances in the Bible that have the dead appearing to anyone. I was really upset by this and worried that I was being stalked by Satan. Anyways, I talked to my priest and he (thankfully) disagreed and was upset with my sister for saying such a thing. His words were "just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't real." (I later read the story of the transfiguration and believe now that there are instances in the Bible that have had sightings of those that have died.)

Several months later I "felt" Bob and again was comforted until it got to be somewhat irritating. (Long story.) But, I told him I was okay and he could go. I haven't seen or heard from him since. I miss "seeing" him and was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience.

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I had several visits from Lou for the first few months after he died, but nothing for awhile now. The visions were so real, I could actually feel his skin and the heat from his body beneath my hand or arm whatever part was touching him. I could smell him and was positive he was there and then I would seem to jerk and "awake" but it sure did not seem like a dream while it was happening.

The week he died I had several red cardinels come and cling to the screen and just look at me while I was on the patio. They took a long time to fly away and let me very close.

I also found my tennis shoes with the strings tied together (something Lou did) so I don't think you are crazy. Not sure what to make of all of it though!

Rosemary

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We had a discussion about this months ago...does anyone remember the thread? Your sister is undoubtedly very black and white and taught a certain way...I wouldn't argue with her but best to decide for yourself what YOU think. Why does it have to be the devil? Maybe God implants visions to us for HIS purposes! Don't worry about it, I think your priest is right. And for the record, the Bible has had instances where the dead appeared, maybe not alot, but enough to blow her theory. :closedeyes:

Edited by kayc
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Actually, Kay, this topic has been discussed in several different threads on our site over the last few years. Try typing into our site's Search Engine (at the top of the main page) the words mystical experiences and see what comes up for you. Here is just one example:

Posted by Marty Mon Nov 28, 2005 @ 2:48 pm in Behaviors in Bereavement / Strange Dreams about Death

My dear friend,

I’ve just finished reading a wonderful book that you (and our other members and visitors) may find quite helpful. It’s entitled Grief Dreams: How They Help Heal Us after the Death of a Loved One, by T.J. Wray and Ann Back Price. (T.J. Wray is an assistant professor at Salve Regina University, a bereaved sibling and creator of the Web site for Adult Sibling Loss, at www.adultsiblinggrief.com; her colleague is a Jungian psychoanalyst on the faculty at Brown Medical School in Providence, Rhode Island.)

The authors assert that, “Because grief dreams are a fairly universal phenomenon among the bereaved, they offer the opportunity, when affirmed as important and properly understood, for healing.” They guide readers in ways to understand and value their dreams, how to keep a grief dream journal, and how to use dreams as tools for healing. They explain that most grief dreams fall into four rather broad categories (visitation dreams, message dreams, reassurance dreams and trauma dreams), although there are other grief dream types such as prophetic dreams and dream series. The book offers real-life examples of each type, including their symbols and other important features. Wray and Price show how dreams can be affirming, consoling, enlightening, and inspiring. Grief dreams, they say on page 37, “offer a way through pain to memory and meaning.” Grief dreams act as shock-absorbers, help us sort out our emotions, enable us to continue our inner relationship with the deceased, and make a creative bridge to our future: “Grief dreams often bear meaningful images of a hopeful new life for the mourner [p. 181].”

The authors offer step-by-step guidance for understanding and valuing the various messages from grief dreams – even the nightmarish and shock-absorbing ones. They even give examples of how we can ask for a dream to help us, and suggest a method to use as a possible technique for inducing a reassurance dream. Following each dream story is a “Toolbox” designed to assist the reader to gain the confidence necessary to interpret his or her own dreams. “This confidence is enhanced by the easy-to-learn methods of interpretation that center on the concept that you, the dreamer, are in the best position to accurately interpret your own dreams. After all, your dreams are as unique as you are [p. 6].”

I'd also like to leave you with this thought, Kath, taken from Evelyn Elsaesser-Valarino's book, Talking with Angel: About Illness, Death and Survival:

When you have visions like this, you have to take them seriously . . . It isn’t really a question of true or false, real or imaginary. The true value of your vision lies in what it means to you. Take it to be a sign, like a present given specially to you and you alone. A sign of this kind is by its nature personal, intimate and infinitely precious. It is meaningful only to you. Measure the truth of it by the impact that is has upon you, by the good it does you, by the consolation that it brings, by the answers it offers you. Only you can give it its meaning and its true dimension, for it belongs to you alone (pp. 118-119).

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Kath, It sounds like you have been comforted (primarily) by what you perceive as Bob´s presence. Certainly, these feelings should only be interpreted by you, since you were the one to experience them. Yet you still have titled your post ¨Dream or Devil¨ which leads me to believe that you are unsure of how to view this in light of your sister´s opinion. I am not a Bible scholar, but I think the common interpretation of such events is that the ¨Devil¨ doesn´t offer something without a request for something from you. If the end result was that you felt comforted and did not feel compelled to do or think of something which was not in your best interest (temptation), then your ¨vision¨ was a gift. I would be surprised if there was anyone here that could honestly say that they haven´t had some type of surprising ¨gift¨ which has brought them comfort. We may not always be willing to share these gifts, but of course, we can believe that they were intended solely for us.

As for your sister´s Bible education, how does she feel about all of the visions throughout the Bible; or the raising of Lazurus, Jarius´s daughter, the son of the Shunamite woman, etc.; or the talking donkey (I forget which story he is in) and all of the ¨miracles¨ throughout Scripture. Or are we only allowed those ¨miracles¨ which have been performed previously (I missed the ¨NO NEW MIRACLES¨ sign at the end of the books). Better yet, what would she say if God asked her to define the word ¨miracle¨, or to describe the ways you can tell good visions from evil ones?

Edited by fred
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Kath,

I too was visited in the past 60 days by my beautiful Julie. It was after one of my worst days to date. Prior to laying down that night, I cried out to her that I really needed her. When I drifted off to sleep, she suddenly appeared to me as if she were simply walking through the bedroom door on a normal day. I told her that I missed her terribly and that I was so glad she was back. She came over to the bed and gave me a big hug and whispered in my ear 'back? I've been here the entire time.' I held onto her tightly and told her that I never wanted to let go of her again. However, as I released her from my arms, I awoke and she was gone.

Let me assure you that this was no devil--although she was most certainly 'devlish' at times! I believe she was telling me that she indeed had been with me, helping me to be the person that my family needed me to be. It was as real as any dream I've ever experienced. Some might say that my experience illustrates the power of the human mind. If that is the case, I need to start feeding my mind some more, as I am hoping for more and more of these experiences. Never let anyone scare you into thinking that any contact that you might feel with Bob is evil in any way. Some people feel the need to justify anything they don't understand, as being somehow evil. I'm reminded of the character that Kathy Bates played in Adam Sandler's 'Waterboy.' She was an extremely overprotective single mom who 'protected' her son Bobby Boucher from everything good by telling him that it was 'the devil.' Football was the devil, Vickie Vallencourt was the devil, school was the devil.

Kath, enjoy and appreciate any contact you have with your dear Bob. We may not understand these contacts, but we can certainly find comfort and 'feel' our loved ones. I don't know about you, but rather than evil, I'd call that 'a gift from God.'

Take care,

SD2

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"The true value of your vision lies in what it means to you."

Marty, I like what you said here, it's very true.

Thank you for finding that site for us, I couldn't even remember what words were used, as usual, you came through for us!

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

You have all validated what I knew in my heart to be something really special. I had not heard of things like this before, so I really didn't know what to make of it. Talking about it to someone I trusted didn't help, so that is why I reached out to you.

Rosemary, I loved the story of the cardinals and the shoes! How wonderful to know Lou is there putting peace in your heart and a smile on your face!

Fred, I am unsure of so many things since Bob died, that it is hard to know what to think most days. It is really great to feel validated by all of you. I am beginning to notice more occasions where things happened that can't be explained other than by "divine" intervention. For example, I took a group of girl scouts camping and by the time we got near to the site, it was dark and I couldn't find the camp ground. I pulled into a parking lot to tell the other leaders that I didn't know where I was supposed to go. What I didn't see was a park ranger just pulling out of the lot. She escorted us to our camp site and opened the gate. The one who made the arrangements did not have the gate code, so we would not have gotten in had we been able to find the site. Bob was always the one in charge of travel arrangements and I thought at that time he was looking out for us. It had to be more than fate that put that ranger there.

Kay, I do believe that God puts people and events in our lives to help us feel loved. These moments provided just that and like SD2 I will definitely look upon these as gifts and look forward to the next contact.

Marty, you did it agian. The quote from Evelyn Elsaesser-Valarino's book lifted my spirit. Thank you for that! I can't wait to get the book on grief dreams.

You're all the best!

Kath

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Guest moparlicious

Kath,

I am sorry I disagree with your sister. I do not believe the devil would be able to play tricks on us!!!!! I have had several experiences which I know were definitely Dan, the first 2 encounters were at my condo. My whole family heard it too. I heard a very loud banging on my bedroom window, at first it scared the heck outa me and it got louder and louder so we all ran outside and searched all over and saw nothing, this has happened twice.I have not heard any banging since I told Dan to go be with God. Our 17 year old daughter has seen her dad on many occasions in the hallway, and kitchen of our new house(he never lived here with us) I also see hummingbirds all the time, in fact one flew right in my face and nearly hit me in the nose. These birds were Dan's favorite and when he was in Hospice he would sit on the patio and make me take the feeder every time it was empty and fill it back up.I have also smelled a sweet smell in the wind right after he died for many weeks(it was summer and let me tell you the wind in summer of AZ is rare)Sometimes I hear his voice at random places. He has visted his mother, his nephew and our son too. This is true and you are perfectly normal and lucky to have these experiences. I feel blessed to have him around and showing us he is in random ways, for he promised he would. So, when our daughter graduates high school next year although he will not physically be there I know he will be there for her. Love, Kim

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Kim,

I am thrilled to hear that your daughter has also felt Dan's presence. My kids have "seen" their dad at some really important events in the past year. At a school concert, I was given front row seats for helping with costumes. While I only requested two to be reserved, there happened to be an empty chair next to me. Mike was sure his dad was sitting there in that chair. I've noticed when they share these stories they get looks of pity from people that can't relate. Yet, when we talk about them, it feels really natural for us to acknowledge and celebrate the "gift" of their dad looking out for them. Isn't it funny that "gift" and "present" can mean the same thing?

I miss Bob so much. His hug, his smile, his humor...that by believing he is here, at least in spirit, makes the days a little more bearable.

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Kath,

I had many signs from my husband in the beginning, the strongest of which was that I could smell him near me. This went on for a very long time and I never fully understood it until I had a session with Christine Duminiak and she explained it all to me. When Fred and I became close friends it slowed down alot, it was as if Steve knew I would be okay and he knew how Fred would take care of me. Now I am in a comitted relationship with someone else and it has stopped completely, it is sad but it also allows me to think he is now settled and knows I will be okay with these two important men in my life.

You have to tell us how it got to the point of being irritating, you have sparked my interest now !

Love Always,

Wendy :wub:

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We were talking about this at a cook out the other night and I am so jealous of all of you. At first I thought I could feel the warmth of him hold my upper arms , but have never had a dream or anything else. It wa the same way with my dad. He has been gone 18 years and I've never had so much as a dream about him. I'm happy for all of you, but feel left out at the same time.

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Kath

My vision was not necessarily a vision, but some objects that just seemed to appear. My husband for a few years has been writing a book on extraterestial and ghosts. He strongly believed in visions and there is other forms of life out there. In fact, when I get the strength and time I would like to have it published.

Getting back to the objects. About a month after he died I was in work and had to use a typewriter to type some forms. I don't know if anyone remembers the typewriter pencil erasers with the brush at the end. I had not seen one in years. I needed to use one of those, but I made due with what I had. When I was at home I decided to clean my husband's office and low and behold I saw the eraser. I could not believe it. It seemed like he placed it right in front of me.

Last week I had the gas company come to my house to tune-up my boiler before the winter. I needed my radiators bled. The gas guy showed me how to do it and the key to use. He said you could find it at any hardware store. I was back in my husband's office a few days later and on a shelf there was the key that I would need to use.

Now, I don't know if this is a coinstance or not, but someone told me that there are no coinstances. It gave me great comfort in thinking that my husband was looking out for me. If it makes you feel good that's all that matters.

Love and God Bless,

Jeanne

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Wendy, because you asked, I'll tell the story. Please keep in mind that so far, you have all told me how normal I am. This may change that. :P

One night, about eight or nine months after he died, I got into bed and saw Bob's shape in his usual spot. It wasn't frightening or anything. I just reached over and hugged him like I always did and it felt like he had always been there. After a few seconds my arm started to shake. Then it felt like my whole right side was shaking, from my arm to my leg. It felt like he was trying to "move" in to my body and I didn't like it. It was annoying and no longer comforting. That's when I said it was okay for him to go, that we were fine. I know it sounds far-fetched so I've kept it to myself. But at the time I felt like he was hanging around because I was so distraught and needed him so badly. By letting him go, I started to see a difference in how I was doing. The "heaviness" of mourning seemed to leave at that point. I still miss him dearly and I still feel great sadness at times, but I no longer feel stuck. Maybe I stopped being the widow and started to be the woman again. It was right after that I announced to my kids that their Mom was back and we would start having regular meals and rules again. (Can you hear the groan!)

I've had other instances where I had to state that I am okay. A few months ago my adopted dad (we adopted each other, my birth dad is still with us) was dying and his children asked me to come to the hospital. This poor man came to Bob's funeral dragging his oxygen, unable to walk and I knew he wouldn't be with us for much longer. He had been unconscious for three days when I saw him. I said something to his wife and his eyes popped open and he remained aware for the entire day I was there with him. The family was battling with the decision to take him off life support yet he would become agitated everytime I came in the room. He couldn't talk, so I looked him in the eyes and said I would answer the question he couldn't ask. I told him I was okay. The kids were okay. He nodded and I knew he was worried about us as well as leaving his own wife and kids. He closed his eyes and never again tried to communicate.

There have been moments when having to say this out loud has been more than just hiding my grief. I know we will be okay. There's times I don't always believe it, but those times are becoming fewer and farther between.

Now, Jeanne, if you could please ask your husband to come to my house, I haven't been able to find my anniversary ring or the key to the gun cabinet!

Edited by kath
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Dear Ones,

This past Saturday I attended a seminar in Scottsdale, AZ on After-Death Communication presented by Christine Duminiak and Sunni Wells, entitled Bridges to Heaven for Those Who Grieve. Because I think it may be helpful to those of you who are interested, I’d like to share with you the notes I took during their presentation. If none of this appeals to you, please feel free to ignore it. Different people find comfort in different things, and in the end, whatever works for you is what really matters.

About the Presenters:

Christine Duminiak, www.christineduminiak.com, is a certified grief recovery specialist and author of the book, God’s Gift of Love: After-Death Communications. Separate from the Grief Recovery Program, Christine is also a Facilitator of Spiritual Bereavement Healing and Founder of Prayer Wave for ADC’s – a non-denominational worldwide Internet grief support and prayer group – and a sought-after speaker in afterlife topics. She has been in the field of spiritual bereavement support since 1998. Sunni Welles, www.sunniwelles.com, is a Christian spiritual medium and author of Glimpses of Heaven from the Angels Who Live There.

Christine observes that many bereaved are desperate for signs from their loved ones that they are okay. The mission of her Prayer Wave Web site is to pray for those who are looking for such signs. She says it is a place where people from all over the world come together each Friday to pray and to share. Christine believes that prayer works; that our loved ones are still here and still can see and hear us; and that they will still come to us on special days. It is important, she says, to know about the many ways they communicate to us that they are here, still around, and trying to help us. If you think you get a sign or a signal from your loved one, she encourages you to claim it – and she urges you not to over-analyze it. Your loved one’s spirit will know, she says, whether you received the signal that was sent – that you “get it”– and if so, that same signal probably will be repeated, so you’re likely to see it again.

Christine encourages you to pay attention to signs and signals in all their various forms:

•Dreams - To be actual after-death communications (ADCs), dreams must be vivid enough that you will remember them – and they must be comforting. If they cause you distress, they are not coming from your loved one. Our loved one’s message to us is “Be happy for me” and if they’re happy, we should be happy, too. [if you find yourself having nightmarish, unpleasant dreams instead of pleasant ones, she urges you to ask for God’s protection before going to bed at night.]

•Audio - Voice, sounds in the absence of the person or a radio, stereo, TV, etc.

•Music - Feeling a strong urge to turn on the radio; a song comes to mind or happens to play that connects you to your loved one

•Touch - Feeling a pat on your head; a tickle on your cheek; a caress

•Presence - Feeling a heavy sense of the person in the room; chills; quiet in your ears

•Scents - Strong scent of tobacco, cologne, incense, your beloved’s favorite flower

•Computers - Pictures, sounds, words appearing on the screen

•Electrical events- Lights flickering, a TV set turns on and off; a program your loved one wants you to see just happens to come on; the doorbell rings with no one there

•Insects, Birds, Animals - Butterflies, dragon flies, hummingbirds appearing and acting as if they know you; spirits briefly inhabiting other creatures as a way to visit you

•Telepathic thoughts - strong, repetitive thoughts, as if they were somehow placed in your head

•Visions - Seeing in your mind’s eye

•Objects - Lost objects reappear or suddenly materialize without explanation

•Phone Calls - With only static or garbled message on the other end

•Answering Machines - With your loved one’s voice

•Pictures - Askew or fallen off a table; seeing orbs in photographs

•Coins - Pennies from Heaven: finding coins, maybe with a significant date

•Numbers

•Synchronicities, Coincidences (what Christine refers to as “God Incidences”) or Blessings from God - Random happenings; finding something; seeing a flower or shrub blooming on a special day

Christine also suggests

•Being open to ADCs is not holding your loved one back; don’t resist them.

•Be on the lookout; be observant.

•Look for unusual signs, rather than a “blockbuster” sort of event.

•Ask for something specific, and notice when you get what you asked for.

•Know that your loved one does want you to go on to live your life, and fulfill your mission.

•Spirits come only after they are in God’s light.

•Spirits don’t want us to harbor negative feelings – such feelings are hurting only us, not them.

•Give up the pain you remember from the past; your loved one is happy now.

•It’s never too late to say I love you, I miss you, Please forgive me, I forgive you. “There are no grudges in Heaven.”

•It’s helpful to write letters, as doing so releases built-up emotions. Read it out loud; it gets it out of your system; it rings up your loved one and calls him/her to you.

•Seek peace: It is hard for your loved one to get through all the negative, dead energy around you.

•Forgiveness: Anger really blocks the process. Forgiveness is letting fo of anger, not forgetting; it is a conscious choice to live a happy life again.

If You Desire a Dream Visit From a Loved One - Christine’s Tips on How to Have an ADC (from her Web site):

1. Pray: Ask God [or Spirit or the Universe or your Higher Power, according to your own belief system] every night to allow your loved one to visit you in a comforting dream.

2. Ask God to allow you to remember your dream visit.

3. Keep a pad and pen nearby to record your dream before you are fully awake, so you won’t forget it by the time you completely awaken.

4. Very important—ask for God’s holy protection before you sleep or meditate so that your experiences will be comforting ones.

5. Now visualize yourself with your loved one in pleasant and happy surroundings, talking to them about things that you have been wanting to tell them, as you fall off to sleep.

6. It is much easier for our loved ones to get through to us when we are feeling peaceful. Please pray to God to help you feel His peace in your heart at this time of your life when you most need it. Ask God to replace your heart’s sorrow with His joy. God is your best friend, He loves you completely, and He wants to heal you.

7. Please be patient in waiting for God to answer and trust that He will, for your prayer has gone straight to God's loving heart. This will help you to relax about getting a dream visit.

8. Ask others to pray for you too. Others’ prayers are very powerful. We would be happy to pray for you at Prayer Wave for After-Death Communication.

9. Remember, it is ONLY a true spiritual visit from a loved one in a dream, if the dream is a comforting experience! Ignore any dream visit that is not comforting, for this would not be your loved one visiting you. God sends our loved ones for the purpose of bringing us peace and comfort! If you are getting dreams that are causing you distress, please be sure to faithfully say your protection prayers to God before you go to sleep.

Comments from Sunni Welles

•The minute our loved ones cross over, they know we did our best.

•They hurt when we hurt.

•All that’s there in the spirit world is love; it’s the only reason we’re here on Earth: to make loving connections with one another.

•Why doesn’t a spirit come anymore? Because he or she wants you to re-invest in life. Ask God to replace your heart’s sorrow with joy, and to direct you on to your own life purpose. The life we have now is based on the plan we made with God. We are here to fulfill the plan that we agreed to before we were born, using our own free will.

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Leeann, if I understand her correctly, I think what Sunni meant is that as soon as they have died, all the pain and suffering our loved ones endured in this earthly life is over for them ~ and they do not want us to be suffering now, or to remember only the pain and suffering they endured in their last days. I do not think she meant to imply in any way that we are not entitled to feel bad or to mourn, or that there is something wrong with us if we are grieving. Think of it this way: When I die, of course I want my loved ones to miss me and to remember me, and to feel bad that I'm not here physically with them any more ~ but I certainly would not want to see them suffering with grief for the rest of their lives . . .

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I am hoping that is the case. I have often wondered whether or not they see our pain of loss and it has bothered me to think that they do. I don't want them to feel anything upsetting or sad now.

Marty and Mary Linda thanks for some reassurance. I pray you are right.

leeann

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Marty:

Thank you very much for the article. It is true that all of us that are grieving our loved ones, just want to know that they are OK. I have told many people that ask how I am and I tell them that it's not for me that I cry but for Alex. I just hoped that he did not feel any pain and did not see his death coming. Alex had a lot of unfinished business and while he was in the hospital he cried because he was worried about me. I just hope that he is not worrying about me.

Love and God Bless,

Jeanne

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Marty,

Thanks for sharing your notes. The things you shared just assure me what I have experienced is not "all in my head". When I had a reading with a medium, my brother was very upset with me. He told me it was the devil trying to confuse me, that it states in the Bible, we are not to seek out psychics or mediums. It made me sad because I couldn't share any of the things that were said with the medium, with my brother. I have had such incredible "dream visits", or things that happen during the day to let me know they are around me,those too, I could not share with my brother. But now, he had an experience at his house that he told me about and started by saying"you are going to think I am crazy...but.." I told him no, he isn't crazy, its just that our parents have been trying to let you know they are around and you weren't paying attention, so they had to do something big! I know my parents know I am sad and want me to live my life again and find joy . My parents are no longer in pain, no longer sick and no longer suffering...I know this because in my dreams, they are healthy and happy. So whether these things are real or not, the comfort they bring me and the love I feel when they happen, cannot be from the devil or anything evil or bad.

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I found Christine to be a joy to know and can't wait till my next session with her. She is such a wonderful person who cares very deeply for everyone and I belong to her group that Marty was referring to. She had taught me how to open up my mind to all the signs that are there that we just do not realize. Just to give you an idea I had a dream earlier on that Steve and I were walking up his street towards the house he had lived in before we had gotten married, we were walking side by side talking away to eachother yet I could not see him. As we had approached the house as we looked into the front window we could see his mother with many family members around her and they were comforting her as if someone had died. We somehow snuck into the house and went into another room and when I turned around, he was gone and I never found him. I do not think without Christine I would have been able to evaluate this on my own but I realized I was being shown that even though I can not see him, he is there and that even though I had not gotten along with my Mother-In-Law she was also hurting deeply too and that I needed to call her. She gave me the tools I needed to see signs that are around me...especially the fact that light bulbs have been blowing out in my house constantly since I lost him...I think the count is over 50 now...Steve knew I hated to change light bulbs...they scared me but now I am a pro at changing them...I just wish he would stop now...I get the hint ! LOL

Love Always,

Wendy :wub:

Kath I found your experience so interesting and would be curious as to what Christine would tell you, thank you for sharing that.

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