Girlfriend's Father Passed Away!

[Not2bforgot10]

Kay- My girl (we'll just call her that for now - we're technically "friends" because she can't handle the girlfriend label, and I suppose it is smarter that we're friends first before being partners/lovers) has some major insecurity issues. She has lots of blind-spots. I think she has intimacy issues. Like, attachment. She idealized me at first and now devalues me and is very push/pull, up/down, etc. Her moods change by the hour. She is unpredictable and inconsistent. Granted, she's grieving/baggage of divorce and loss of mother, but I think this is more than that. I think she's afraid of love. I truly believe she is afraid of feelings. She'll feel them, then she'll push them away and outright deny/reject them and/or anyone involved with them. She is afraid of getting close to people. Like, a real intimate connection, ie non-sexual. Sexual is different, and she will often separate the emotional from physical with sex to where physical feels safer and the emotional is off/on, but nevertheless denied later. Again, fear of getting too close. What am I supposed to do about this?

She says she just wants to be "friends" right now, and I couldn't agree more. I think it's wise and smart. We also aren't denying our feelings, either, and acting on those feelings. It's hard to keep things strictly platonic when we love one another. It's the push/pull of her not wanting to feel feelings that creates problems. She says she thinks this may go back to her father (he was distant, unavailable). She lacks inner confidence and security.

[kayc]

I can relate to her as I've been divorced and I know all too well how hard it is to trust when you've been so deeply hurt or betrayed. I think the only antidote for that is patience. Give her time to heal and be patient with her...the wounds will heal even though scars sometimes remain. And don't be afraid of counseling, either of you, to help you through the past. Sexuality is easier because you can compartmentalize it and it may or may not be accompanied by loving feelings. It would be good to work on individual issues before trying to combine into a relationship so you don't set the relationship up for defeat to begin with.

[Fred79]

Hi everyone,

I found this forum by googling 'my girlfriend's father died' and Tom's original post describes my situation exactly.

The reason I was googling was to find some real-life stories about more or less the same situation where people give tips on how to behave so all can be alright in the end. Well, most reassuring was this thread not as Tom's girlfriend ended breaking up with him...

Let me describe my situation.

I'm a 34 year old guy from Belgium, Europe. I have had some longterm relationships but apparently never with the right girl. I had been single for about 1,5 year putting all my energy in my job which is very time-consuming. And you know, one says you get more picky the older you get and that's true. But in June I met a superb 28 year old girl and we fell in love. She had been single for over a year too. She had ha some bad relations in the past and was finally open for something new.

She said from the very beginning she kind of had a closed personality, whereas I am the complete opposite, super-open. But I need to say I was not feeling this as she really did great efforts to open herself towards me.

On the contrary, where I am always a bit careful in telling all my friends and family about a new love (after some bad relationships), she made me meet all her friends in the first weeks. And all were so happy for her to have found a soulmate. Now, I know this sounds a bit ridiculous after only a few weeks but sometimes you just know...right?! Her parents were divorced and since then, the relationship with her mother isn't good at all. Although her mother still lives only 1 street away she sees her like once every month, just because...well yeah, it's still her mother. Her father moved to Africa, had always been his dream, and worked there in the mining business. About 1,5 month every year he came to Belgium on holidays to meet friends and family. Her father was her God, although he lived on the other side of the planet they skyped quite every night.

End of July I went on holiday with my family and I invited her for a few days to meet with all of my family. All went superb and I was extremely happy. Something she said to me as well, that this was all she ever wanted and that I was the sweetest guy she could imagine.

During holiday she asked if I could get 1 morning free when I returned to Belgium for a surprise...and so I did. She had set-up a breakfast with her father, who by then was on his annual holiday in Belgium too, and his girlfriend. It was like we knew each other for years, so a great first meeting with the most important person in her life.

As August past I saw her father on numerous occasions and all was great and good.

Until the 26th of August, she slept at my place when at 6 AM she was woken by a call from her father's girlfriend that he had had a hyperventilation-attack and she had called an ambulance. This was something he had had before but nothing to worry about. As I was very tired she told me to go to bed for 2 more hours while she would go to the hospital. When I woke up no messages on my cell so I wrote her a message 'all ok'. I was called by her number but it was her niece at the line telling me her father had died from a hart-attack. A sporty guy of only 50 years old....I couldn't believe what I heard.

That week every single evening I went to her place that was crowded with friends and family to support her. Every evening I had my trolley with me with to sleep over if she wanted me too. We had been sleeping together for 95% of the time but of course I understood she didn't want to sleep in her father's bed and wanted her best girlfriend to stay there. So no real need for me.

Quite logic to have more comfort from someone you know and trust for over more than 10 years than someone you know for only 2 months. On top, as I told you she has a rather closed personality, so let's say I was not at the same level yet as her 2 best friends, something she texted me literarily And I realize this sounds all a bit drama-queen like if I hear Tom was together with his girlfriend for more than 2 years and I am for only 2 months but I can assure you this is/was something unique.

So every night I went back home as last of the bunch. But while all were sitting outside and she was getting coffee or whatever, every time she passed she touched my hair, or my back or my arm...without any words we were there for each other.

When 3 days passed, she texted me she would try to make some free space so I could stay there as well during the night. But this was just postponed day by day and never happened.

To make thing worse, on Friday, the day before the funeral, was her birthday. We went with just 5 friends for a drink and that was it. Quite every night, including Friday, she texted me right before she went to bed to thank me for all the understanding. Of course I did understand, what boyfriend would I be....

Until Saturday she had been real strong, hardly crying and of course taking care of the 1 million things that involve preparing a funeral.

Although she didn't completely crash, as I feared, all became different as from then.

All of her family came to tell me that now was the time to show her how big was my love, that now was the time to be there for her. And of course, I was planning on doing so, 100%. But since then, I don't have the chance to. When I held her hand that very evening, there was no reaction. Zombie-mode all over. Something I understand of course, I could only try to comfort her.

On Sunday and Monday I just texted and didn't visit her as I felt she was in need for some me-time.

On Tuesday I just saw her for an hour.

We kept sending messages but they were a lot fewer and without emotion...only answering 20% of the things I wrote.

And we both are due to our jobs, cell-phone addicts. So I know she has it with her.

Now, before all of you think I'm a selfish prick, I could place this. I knew she was not in the mood for answering, even if I was just sending everyday stuff and not asking for attention for myself.

But she kept on sending me a good night text every evening with some X's or kiss-emoticons. On Wednesday she went back to work for the first time and I received like 200% more texts so I thought working again was doing her good.

On Thursday she let me know we had to go somewhere with friends and I had to come too. Also she stated on Monday (today) she was going to do something in the evening with her father's girlfriend that they were planning on doing together and now the 2 girls would do.

Now, I'm travelling a lot for my job and this week I'll be all week in Switzerland. She had to work the entire past weekend so it would mean we weren't going to see each other for over a week so I texted more or less the following: that I had respect for all she wanted or did, that she had to deal with her grief her way and that I had patience (although, not my strongest point at all). That the only thing I wanted was that we could still see each other from time to time as I didn't want us to become strangers for one another. She understood she texted but didn't have the energy to deal with herself, so certainly not to put energy in someone else and that a relationship was the least of her worries.

Was I wrong to send this only 5 days after the funeral? I noticed that the frequency of messages went down again ever since....

That Friday night we were together with the friends thing. She was very cold to me and didn't respond when I just grabbed her hand for a minute.

She was texting all the time with her phone to I don't know who....

I felt a bit sad because apparently she could text others but only did few times to me.

Her best girlfriend doesn't leave her side ever since the day her father died. I'm very happy she has friends that good, on the one side. On the other side...I made a promise to all of her family to be there for her but she just doesn't let me to. I would like to be part in her going through her grief.

I actually feel very bad for thinking this way. The pain for losing your father, especially if you're so close to him, must be unmeasurably higher than the 'troubles' I'm having for not being close with her. I really feel selfish...but it's kind of destroying me on the inside. I want to be there for her, but I just can't...it makes you feel so powerless.

And in an extremely selfish phase I feel even a bit jealous when seeing the friend that is with her all the time. Why doesn't she want to be with me to feel comfortable. Just going for a walk, without speaking. Just putting her head on my shoulder. I don't expect her to do more than this. But at least I would feel like I'm part of this slow process. Now I feel like I mean nothing to her. Why she responds on Facebook to invites for birthday parties in 2 months but she can't hardly answer my messages...and I mean nothing than good to her... I feel like I'm worthless and no support at all...

Today we met for an hour before she went to her father's girlfriend. Her house is filled with pictures. There must be like 100 in the living room. There was one of the 2 of us. Today it was replaced in the frame by one of her father. Of course I'm not mad for this but the picture was nowhere to be seen, even frameless. So there's no reference to me at all anymore....nothing. I just said her 'our picture is gone'. She replied: ow yes, there's one of my father in it now...I just need to get more frames... It felt like a dagger in my heart...so many frames and so many pictures of the same people over and over again...and that one picture of the both of us..that's still my cellphone background, had disappeared...

I asked her if she was happy for me being there. Her reply was a simple but cold: if I wouldn't want you to come I would just say so.

She still kisses me goodbye but it's swift and there's no hug whatsoever.

Am I just being egocentric? Am I doing things completely wrong? I don't want her to be the happy couple again instantly. I just want her to allow me in, that's it. I don't expect anything more, at least not now.

I know she feels real empty inside now and she has no energy nor need for anything but it drives me crazy and as I said I'm not the most patient guy around.

I have the utmost respect for Tom that he waited 2 months to tell his story on this forum. It's 2 weeks for me and I'm nuts by tension and uncertainty already.

We have so much planned in the next coming weeks and I hope soooo hard all will be good by then. On the 21st of September I have planned a skydive for both me and her as a late birthday present. It was something I discussed with her father and he liked the plan. I hope she's open for it by then. Later that day we would go to have dinner with her father's girlfriend. The first thing she said by the way when he passed away was : that she was so glad he still got to know me. That he was so happy his little girl had found a good guy and that he had 'approved' me. All these things make me hope she will realize this and doesn't want to throw away what we had.

Also in October we have a weekend away planned, her gift for my birthday. And in November we booked a trip to New York together...

Finally my life was heading in the perfect direction...I don't want it to change...I don't want to loose this. And again...this is nothing compared to what she lost but still...

Writing this has a therapeutic effect. But feel free to guide me. To help me act better based on your experiences.

Finger's crossed this has a happy ending after all...

Thanks for reading and helping me.

Fred

[kayc]

Your GF is going through the hardest thing in her life, and with no preparation. It's not uncommon for grievers to respond this way. A relationship requires effort, which she has none within her to furnish, whereas friends, esp. long term ones, don't require anything of her, so she's likely to feel more comfortable with them for a while.

My fiance and I were engaged for a year and I got dumped when he was losing his mom...the only explanation I ever got was that he had nothing within him to do a relationship or anything else, all was for his mom, and he couldn't take it. The least little thing can set them over the edge, so I wouldn't make any demands whatsoever. Even something like making birthday plans can be viewed as a demand to her. Be careful, tread lightly, or you will lose her for sure. It's possible you may anyway. I hope for a positive outcome for you, but if you've read many posts here, you'll find that is more rare.

Good luck to you! I'm sure someone else will be along to post a response to you soon. Try to be understanding and wait, give her breathing room and respect her wishes, that's about all the advice I have...again, good luck!

[Fred79]

Hi KayC,

Thanks for your reply.

It's a nice feeling to see complete strangers comfort each other.

Well, yesterday, after I wrote my story on this board I felt a bit better.

Especially when she texted me she had had great fun (they went sailing on the sea) but was completely wet by rain and that they were in a restaurant I took her to before. And later that she arrived home safely and was in deep need for her bed with some X's.

This morning while waiting for the post-office to open as I needed to pick something up, I was checking Facebook, including her account. I noticed all the last pictures she posted on her wall before her father died (all pics of us and my family during our holiday together) were removed. They're still in an album but removed from her wall. This fact together with the fact the picture of the both of us in her living room that she removed made me feel bad and nervous instantly again.

Having no energy for me is one thing but why is she removing all references to me????

The only thing I want is being there for her and it makes me feel like I'm a bad guy in stead.

As I'm struggling with myself, while driving to work, I called my brother-in-law and the wife of one of my best friends (who also lost her father) just to have a chat with them. Both of them reacted that they have the utmost understanding for her grief but on the other hand she cannot just make we wait clueless. Both advized me, as you, to have just some more patience, they think she will get back to me sooner or later.

Also what I forgot to mention is that the girlfriend of her father texted me on FB that she knows my girlfriend needs some space now and that she's pushing me a bit away. But, she wrote, that with the right amount of patience and respect from both sides all will be OK in the end. As she wrote this pro-actively I think my girlfriend talked about this with her.

All of this is driving me crazy....I'm a very open person and now I really realize how different that is from a closed person.

Well, in a few hours I'm leaving for Switzerland and I won't be back for Friday evening. On Saturday I'm seeing her again and she will have been working again...so let's hope there's some progress by then.

Fred

[kayc]

Try not to overly analyze everything she does as she may or may not have reasons...often, in a state of grief, particularly when fresh, we're in a fog and later may not even remember what we said or did.

For now, be a friend. I advise against any relationship talk for a long while.

Hopefully your trip will keep you busy and keep your mind off things for a bit

[Fred79]

Hi KayC,

As I told so, I'm super open and social. If ever I have problems it relieves to talk about them. So I think I'm bit annoying quite all of my closest friends with the same story all over and over again.

Seems most of their advices can be categorised in 2 groups.

1) she has a closed personality and it takes time. Give her some space and time. She'll get back to you.

2) it's absolutely normal she's mourning but she has to understand you're in pain too. You need to talk with her.

Well I guess you guys all are in favour of option 1 with the difference that you're not sure it's going to be OK.

If I would know that I would of course just give her time...

I hate to read all the stories here...because I see so many resemblances. And I especially hate to read all stories end in a break-up. It can't be though that all relationships with a distant partner end up in breaking up???

There must be some good endings, right?!?!

Why are there no examples here then? Or are the stories told here only the sad ones because if not, people just don't write them?

I'm getting a bit less hopefull about a good outcome but I try to believe it's still possible to be the odd one out. I comfort myself with the thought she's closed but also strong and stubborn. The goodbye message she wrote in the funeral center's book was she promised her father to be strong and to fight to be back again asap.

But mine was that I was very happy I still got to know him and I promised I would take very good care of his daughter. As she doesn't allow me in her life now (or only a small part) it feels like I'm breaking my promise.

The fact of the disappeared picture of the 2 of us in the living room and the deleted pics on Facebook is running through my mind all the time. That's not a good sign, is it???

Well, KayC, you were hoping that the days abroad would be a time-off for me too...they aren't. I'm not in the congress but in my room... I feel stressed and nervous, I haven't eaten for 3 days in a row. And I just can't seem to find peace of mind...

Her father's girlfriend texted me the following on Facebook last week: <<I know she needs some space and she's pushing you away now, but with patience and mutual respect all will be OK>>. If only that could be true....

Fred

[Fred79]

By the way, I told you the only sign of emotion I was still getting was a goodnight message and some kisses every evening. Yesterday I got nothing. :-(

I was devastated by it, really. This morning I just sent a heart-emoticon and 2 hours later received a cold 'enjoy your working day today', that's it.

Just had a call with my uncle, he has a lot of troubles with his daughter, my niece, currenty. They're on non-speaking terms. And we're backing up each other. I couldn't help myself and just started crying like a little baby. Quite all of my friends and family can more or less understand the complete shut-down and her being closed. But what's the point in leaving pics with friends (smiling) on your facebook wall and just remove mine? We were together on holiday and there's still a panoramic picture of the view there in Italy on her wall. That she left on it, but all the pics of us together there are removed... Why would she do that?? That's intentionally, right? What have I done wrong? I just want to be there for her. And only 1,5 weeks ago she was still thanking me for my understanding and being there....

She's the kind of person, just like her father, that always thinks about others first and only then about herself. Why for just once she can't think about the person that truely loves her....??

[kayc]

To be quite honest, most do not make it but I think there are occasionally ones that do. I think if those who wrote here made it they would come back and tell us so. BUT although there are similarities in our cases, there are also areas of uniqueness as no two relationships are exactly the same. All of us that this has happened to are still grappling to understand what happened, why, etc. It's been over three years for me and it's still hard to wrap my head around it. I've wondered if there was more to it but he says no. Yet still he hasn't sought to get me back. That doesn't make sense to me. I have accepted that it is what it is, but as you know, it was hard and painful getting there. I just had no choice.

You cite the two groups...we may tell you the first but we FELT the second. If you read the other threads here, you'll see how angry and hurt we felt at times and felt they owed us more than just dumping us without explanation! But I also know in a grief situation we can't make demands, it gets us nowhere. They don't even KNOW why they're doing what they're doing, they're in a fog! They only know they can't deal with anything right now. Is it unfair to us? You betcha! For all it's worth.

Any sign of affection you send her right now is likely being viewed as a demand. This is a balancing act of impossible nature! So many of us felt damned if we did, damned if we didn't, but that's the precise situation we were in!

For now hold on to her father's GF's msg and if/when you feel you can't take it any more, then it will be time to move on. Remember, you have to put your own mental well being first, so you can only wait in the wings so long...you will know when it is time, it's different for everyone. The danger in waiting is that you could grow to resent her. There isn't a positive script to follow with guaranteed outcome, I wish there was. And I honestly hope you are the exception and you guys make it!

Try not to give much thought to the pictures, etc.m, right now it's hard for her to think clearly and whatever she does, she won't be thinking it all the way through...including how it affects you, what you might think about it, etc.

[MartyT]

It's possible that on some level your girlfriend feels disloyal to her father if she entertains any thoughts of having and loving another man in her life right now, Fred, which may serve to explain why she removed the pictures of the two of you. But that is only a guess. As Kay says, your girlfriend is the only one who really knows why she's doing what she's doing ~ and in her current state of mind, she probably does not know herself why she's behaving the way she is. Feelings in grief aren't necessarily logical and rational, and they're not always conscious either. Whatever is driving your beloved to behave the way she's acting may be at an unconscious level, totally outside of her conscious awareness. That is why it's so fruitless for you (or any of us) to over-analyze and attempt to explain the reasons for her actions. You want desperately to make some sense out of something that does not make any sense. Hard as it is, you are wise to follow Kay's advice: Try not to give much thought to the pictures, etc. Right now it's hard for her to think clearly and whatever she does, she won't be thinking it all the way through...including how it affects you, what you might think about it, etc.

[Fred79]

Well,

Here's an update....

As you know, I'm currently in Switzerland. Another colleague took his car this morning and started driving from Belgium towards here. While driving he called me. Now, that colleague has become a real close friend of me in the previous years. So he knew quite all about the story...

Normally when we talk we're quite enthousiast and crazy.

This time he noticed I'm about to crash...so he heard me out and suddenly said: gotta go, I'll call you back in few hours.

I just thought he got a call from a customer or so.

In the meantime I was getting nuts one more time....and I texted the girlfriend of my girlfriend's father. Although we don't know eachother that well we grew closer because of the passing away, became facebookfriends and had a short chat last week where she stated that she knows my girlfriend needs some space now. Because of that I knew she must have spoken with her about me. The end of the chat was giving each others mobile numbers and she stating I could always contact her if I needed a chat.

And so I wrote her a text if we could have one. We could, she replied, a few hours later if she would be home.

Well, after that text I went down to the congress and it did real good to me. All those customers from all over the world hugging me. A good feeling, knowing they truely like you and it's not just a business relation.

My colleague suddenly rang me back. He ahd made his wife call my girlfriend. We all know each other as we went for dinner on numorous occasions and have some whatsapp chatgroups all together. After my girlfriend's father died I know my colleague's wife texted my girlfriend quite some times as she has lost her father too a few years ago and so they could share some feelings.

I don't know what exactly she asked or said (yet) but I guess she just asked what's the situation like. Apparently my girlfriend said she still really loves me but has no energy now to show this and she wants to be left alone a bit. So not sending her 30 messages a day and not contacting all of the friends and family to ask for advice.

Well, turns out you were right...of course. And although I tried to follow this advice I should have done it more severely.

On the other hand, I still don't get why she can't just say that to me. She could 1,5 weeks ago and I understood, no problem...

Well, that was a big relief although it guarantees me nothing.

When going back to my room I got a text from her father's girlfriend that she was home and we could chat.

I explained her every thing I wrote in the previous posts.

It really felt good chatting with her as this is what I currently miss with my girlfriend, her being open.

I'm OK with dealing with answers it's just the being ignored that's so hard to deal with

I felt a bit bad for disturbing her with my problems while she had to deal with her loved one who passed away but she was nice and understood my point of view too.

She had had some issues with him a few years ago and and that point removed all pictures of him too. Not because she wanted to forget about him but seeing him all the time couldn't make her focus on the things she needed. With patience and respect they grew back together. She thinks my girlfriend has the same thing going now. Seeing pictures of us 2 probably makes her think about our relation and she has no energy to put in a relation now.

I should give her space now...

We agreed that I would just send her 1 more message with a poem I found on the internet that quite says it all. Just to make her realize that I understood what I should do...give her space...

It was the following:

I’m sorry of being so emotional
I’m sorry of being so possessive
I’m sorry that I cry for you
I’m sorry because I can’t live without you

I’m sorry for the tears you shed
I’m sorry for the damage I made
I’m sorry I’ve made you sick
Sorry I hurt you so deep

I’m sorry for giving you sleepless nights
I’m sorry for each and every fight
I’m sorry for your pain & agony
I’m sorry for the missing harmony

I’m sorry for my selfish love
I’m sorry for not caring enough
I’m sorry for my restlessness
I’m sorry for the losing grace

I’m sorry my friend I made you mad
I’m sorry darling you are so sad
Sorry for not giving you any happiness
Sorry because it’s my disgrace

I’m sorry for thinking of you so very much
I’m sorry I always miss your touch
I’m sorry of being so mad about you
I’m sorry for my every blue

I’m sorry of being so immature
I’m sorry now that can’t be cured
I’m sorry of being myself
I’m sorry that I’ve failed

I’m sorry and sorry again
I’m sorry of being insane
But believe me that I love you
Should I say sorry for that too?

[Fred79]

And another update....

Well, this morning I've send her the poem.

No reaction....

It's been 30 hours since the last message I got.

I now that is what she wants right now but it's soooooo hard.

And so not me.

This morning I received a call from my brother-in-law. He has been playing tennis with my girlfriend a few times and they get along quite well too.

He had sent her a message earlier this week if she wanted tickets for a certain tennis match.

She replied yesterday evening that it wasn't necessary. While they texted it turned out that they were both in the same neighbourhood and they went for a drink and a chat.

She normally had to work till late that night but apparently she had called her boss she was crashing a bit and she got a free day.

Well, this was of course a long chat and shows a different view than the news I got yesterday that she still loves me but just needs time.

She told my brother in law that she really is empty and has no energy. That I don't seem to understand that I need to back off. That if she replies on only 20% of my texts I shouldn't send even more. That that is a sign she needs space.

She's right of course and it sounds logic but if you're panicking and you're stressed and are desperate you do sometimes stupid things, or the exact opposite things you should do best.

That's what he told her, that I was getting nuts and crying all the time because I didn't know anything, not what to do, not if she still wants me...

She doesn't want to hurt me she told him but she needs some time for herself, not thinking about others. And she has a lot of support of the 2 best friends she has. I'm not the support she wants right now cause the relationship was still to fresh, I'm not so deeply rooted in her as those 2 friends.

She was kind of frustrated that I wrote her I couldn't sleep or was very stressed. She has more trouble than that. So I shouldn't complain. She's right. So I feel like I blew it. I probably did all the wrong things I could do and was selfish. Although I didn't want to and tried to be patient, the longer I needed to wait the more I missed her and tried to let her know that. Which I shouldn't have done. Probably by doing so she even wrote me fewer and fewer and now we're at the point she hasn't been sending me at all.

Also she was kind of mad for me asking where my picture was. Of course I understand she wanted to put a picture of her father in the place but at that moment it felt like a dagger in my heart and it felt like she wanted to make me disappear. Yet again, the opposite reaction of what I should have done...nothing. He didn't tell her about the pictures she removed from facebook. Maybe for the best.

Also me calling all friends and asking for advice is not what she wants. And she might be right, but that's my way of dealing with things. I'm open and if I have issues I need to talk someone. I can't talk to people who don't know her so I guess I just wanted answers. Answers she could have given me but she didn't. Or she tried to give me hints and I was to blind to see them.

I just feel like all I do or did is wrong. And it makes me even feel worse. Now I feel like I've been a terrible boyfriend and in stead of being a support I've been a needy, selfish nuisance. Did I blow all chances of showing her I'm there for her? Was I just a burden for her?

He stated she needs to be honest with me too. I'm having pain as well and if she knows now already that I'm not the guy for her she should tell me now. She just doesn't know. She has to find her own place right now. And only then she can see where to put the others. So that's not "I still love you and all will be OK, but just leave me alone right now". Unfortunately. She told him she can't say it will be OK, neither if it won't be OK. She just doesn't know yet what she wants.

I felt better yesterday afternoon as my friend told me she still loves me and just needs to be left alone for a while. Also he showed me some messages he wrote her. He had told her I was relieved and happy she still wants me, that I finally understood that I needed to leave her alone and that I would do so. She had replied she needs some me-time indeed and she thanked him.

Also to cheer me up he showed me some emailconversation she had had with his wife. But the conversation was from the first week her father died. She had written that week that I was trying to understand her but I was not getting it. That she loved me and didn't want to hurt me. That she would have her crash later and that she would need me-time. But all over the message was about me, that she wanted me to be OK. She wrote I felt not needed and useless and that I shouldn't feel that way as she did appreciated it. That was so sweet of her and actually unnecessary to think about my feelings only 5 days after her father died.

But that conversation was also from the first week, the week she was still being communicative to me...

I feel so bad...bad for being a bad boyfriend and bad for not being a support the way she wanted and bad for her not being responsive...

Shitty situation....

Fred

[kayc]

I would not include the last line, and I'd shorten it to only include what's applicable. She may feel bad that she's making you sorry about everything. You don't want her to feel bad because if she does, it will feel like a "demand" to change it and that she can't do right now.

[kayc]

You posted while I was typing, so I'll take a look at what you have to say and respond to that...

[kayc]

You are not a bad BF, but you are making some common errors. Instead of obsessing about her, whether she loves you or doesn't, whether it will work out or not (and trust me, I know how hard that can be!), please give her the space she has asked for and have faith that all will be well one way or another and busy yourself with family, friends, activities...work out at the gym, take a class you always wanted to just for fun, try a new hobby, anything to take your mind off this situation! Avoid drinking too, that's a downer and that's not what you need right now.

You need to stop checking with her friends and talking to them about her. Do you not realize they will tell her? She doesn't want stalked, she wants space...to do otherwise will be to push her away. I know, you don't see it as stalking, that's a harsh word but I don't know a softer word for it, but she could view it that way, you're checking up on her, infiltrating her space. STOP if you want to salvage what there is! Give her time. It could go either way but I feel you've lost ground the last couple of days. You need to do damage control and back way off. I KNOW it's harder than anything, been there! But between all of our experiences here, I can see that is what is needed. If she wants to talk to you, she knows how to find you. If she doesn't want to talk to you, why would you want to push yourself on her?

I'm sorry, I know this is hard. Come here to vent, hopefully some others will come along and give their responses as well.

[Pollara]

Well Fred, unlike you I gave my ex all the space he needed and of course when I asked him about our relationship 3 months after the death and after 1 month of contact once per week he broke it off as I guess it was so super pressury and selfish of me to ask him something like that. Of course I am sarcastic. But anyways, on the matter of friends, it happens to have common friends so when they tell me how are you and do you still want your ex, I cannot say lies and of course I am saying that I still have feelings for him and that I am worried about him. But the worst thing didn't come from me, but from my best friend. She wanted to see what is happening and she is in good terms with a close friend of my ex. So she told him that I am desperate and I have almost fell to depression and she even exaggerated. I don't know if this is the reason why my ex doesn't speak to me now. I didn't know about this fact until recently that she told me. Anyway, I cannot blame her, but maybe my ex found it extra pressury to still have feelings for him. Of course she told that at about July. In any case, it is not good to have common friends. Not only because of that, but I really find it hard when everyone comes and tells me his news ignoring how I feel. In the end I had to block all our common friends in order not to see what he is doing or learn his news by mistake. And some of them they were good friends of mine that I knew them before I met him. But really, I cannot do something else. It was so easy to move on before the digital age.

In any case, my opinion is to do what will make you feel better. It is their problem that they feel pressured anyway. That is what I learnt. Because in the end, you know, I feel like I didn't do enough and I would have wanted to tell you what he did to me, even if it was the last time that he would have spoken to me. I am sorry for what you are going through, because I don't want other people being in my shoes, but just leave it. If someone fells into depression, it is something that s/he cannot go through it so easily and it will take more time than someone can wait. Just move on with my life. This is the advice I can give to everyone. And I think that the fact that your relationship was not settled (same goes with me) it is not always true. In this forum, there are a lot of people that had relationship for years and didn't work in the end.

[kayc]

Good point, Pollara..."I really find it hard when everyone comes and tells me his news ignoring how I feel."

It's the hearing bits and pieces that keeps it stirred up within you, not healing, not moving on. We need to do what is best for ourselves, while respecting their wishes.

[Pollara]

Good point, Pollara..."I really find it hard when everyone comes and tells me his news ignoring how I feel."

It's the hearing bits and pieces that keeps it stirred up within you, not healing, not moving on. We need to do what is best for ourselves, while respecting their wishes.

oh KayC you are totally right! I totally want to respect his wish and try to have the minimum contact but if he hears everyone talking about me and even asking him about me (without even my persmission) in the worst case scenario he might think that I made them asking or in the best he will just feel pressured himself.

But in any case, when it comes to me, there are times that I am totally fine and not thinking about him intensively. Only few minutes per day. And when I talk to a common friend, even though I have told them in the past please don't mention him they seem not to understand they are causing problem? Or I don't know, do they think that I already overcome it? Who knows, each time I talk with them, they will cme with a new information about him. One had even the idea of asking me what is my opinion about a matter (totally irrelevant, like what is your opinion about religion for example) and I answered him and then he told me, yeah that is the same as your ex believes. Yeah why do I have to care about what my ex believe? Even this little mentioning made me go backwords, so I decided not to speak to them anymore, at least until I have totally move on. Luckily I am not yet on the same country as them. It is easy to avoid them because they have only online connection with me, so I can pretend that I didn't saw their messages or not having internet connection or something so no hard feelings. I really don't want to lose these people and I don't do that because I hate or something and I wish that they will be wiser and not mention him to me and me to him, but it seems that they aren't. So this is the only way for me to move on. And also, they cannot understand that by mentioning me to him, make things worse. Last but not least, I rarely speak to them about him nowadays, in order to avoid any transfer of my words, that it might even be the way I told it.

[Fred79]

Hi guys,

Thank you all first and for all for your replies and just being here.

It's very comforting to get real advice.

If I have a problem I need to talk. So I talked, but as I wanted to talk with someone who also knew my girlfriend I talked with friends and family. Which annoyed her apparently. So not a great move there. And on top you only get 3 possible answers:

1) that's really not my decision to make. That's between the 2 of you.

2) Someone who's listening but in the end says 'I have no answers either, I wouldn't know what to do' or they only have very little advice.

3) someone that's is protecting you from getting hurt,, like my sister. She said: she's putting away your picture and deleting them from Facebook? Well, it can't get clearer than that, it's over.

The 2nd one I like best because even if they don't have answers they still listen to you and want to be there for you to.

And then I discovered this site and you guys. And it's more what I need. Although you don't know me or my girlfriend you all have the same experience. And you all know what's going on inside me and because you have the experience you have real answers and real advice. And that's really helping me.

Every case is different of course but it's really strange to see all the basic lines are exactly the same.

I have the utmost respect for you saying you waited for like 3 months...I'm pretty sure I couldn't wait that long. At least not when there's no real evolution at all.

Big news by the way....but I wanted to post this first. :-)

She wrote me an email....I'll tell in the next post

[Fred79]

Yesterday evening I got an email....from her.

I feel kinda bet just telling what she wrote, it's of course very personal and I feel like betraying for putting it on the internet. She'd kill me if she would find out but I think's there's only a small change that that would happen.

I try to translate only the relevant parts.

<< Hey,

I write you a mail instead of a text message or a voice conversation... By now you know how closed I am and it's very hard for me to make clear how I feel or think at this moment.

But I need to vent before I destroy myself completely and also I want you to hear something from me instead through other people.

As I told you before a few times, I don't know how to behave or what to feel either. The only thing I know is that my world collapsed and I'll need lots of time to reconstruct it. Something that will take lots of energy from me. Now I have almost no energy left for myself, so absolutely none for others. And maybe you can tell me to allow other people to put energy in me , but that's not who I am. I just need people who can sit beside me and just be silent for hours or distract me if I need it. But only the way I want it and that is the reason why my to best friends are so close to me currently. The 2 of them, apart from my father, are the only 2 who know me 100% and knwo how to behave near me.

Physical contact is the last thing on my mind, even someone holding my hand does nothing to me.

Even you want to be there for me and take care of me, to be truely honest, I don't really feel you're understanding me or get what's going on in me. If I'm happy for only 1 hour I need someone that can sit next to me and be happy for me for me being happy for 1 hour. If I'm sometimes negative about the death of my father then that is just negative and I can't see positive things in that after a week. It's something that needs to wear off but will always keep hurting. But currently I can't start thinking positive...

In other words I need time for myself and I don't have much space to invest in something that requires even more energy that I don't have. Even all the things we did together required lots of energy. I don't want to say that the past 2 months weren't super but you sometimes had issues with me not being enthousiastic enough sometimes and the next coming months that's something I won't be able to be even more...being enthousiastic about small things.

And I would get the feeling that I'm putting myself aside or putting aside my character in favor of someone else.

A picture that disappears to put a picture of my father in the place I think is normal. Me going with my father's girlfriend to a footballmatch with his season tickets instead of with someone else is normal. I just want to do whatever I want now without having to give accountability for it.

I know myself very well and I know I've fallen right now, but I also know I got up again real soon and that now I'm actually being real strong. The big hit will be in 2 months when I will expect my father to come home again on holiday from his job and life abroad.

I understand real well that it's not easy for you either and that you want to be there for me now but I don't seem to be able to allow that. After some time I probably will be able to let you in again but currently that's not what I need. Life goes on, everyone says, but first I need to learn to go on with myself and only then I can learn to go on with someone else. And that's something nobody can help me with and nobody needs to, that's something I need to do myself. Not someone making plans for me, not someone taking care of everything for me, no because I'm to independant and to stubborn for that. And even if you're going to ask me 100 times if you can help me, even teh 101st time I will still say 'no thanks'.

So what I'm asking you now may sound hard and selfish but is for my own good. It's to give me space. Space to breath and and to find myself back. I know I'm only making it harder for you with asking this but this is how I currently think and feel.

x

>>

Well, here you go...

I can't start telling you how relieved I am. Finally a sign of life. And she's talking about her feelings, that's great. Especially for someone with a closed personality.

That's what I needed. I don't expect to get all the things I would like to hear (you're the best support ever, I want you all the time close to me,...) I'm realistic. But I just wanted her to tell me what she felt. And not in 2 words through a message but through a real conversation or mail. Leaving me there, guessing how she felt and getting nuts, that was the worst nightmare for me...

So I'm really happy she found the energy to do this.

Now....should I react and if so, how?????

My gut feeling is to be completely honest with her as she is with me now. Just tell her about my feelings. Explain her some misunderstandings...that I'm not mad because she doesn't want to be with me. That I was frustrated and sad because I didn't know what to do. That being sad only made me crazy and look at things with a magnifying glass. That noticing disappeared pictures made me not mad about the picture being gone itself but made feel like she was erasing me from her life...it made me scared. That I didn't get answers and that me even more scared, that I needed to talk and annoyed family and friends, not because I wanted someone to force a breakthrough for me, just someone to talk to as that is healing to me. That I really do try to understand her, maybe better than she realizes, but I don't know how to behave myself. That communication is important and that I'm extremely happy for her writing about her feelings. That if you're looking so hard to find something right then you're missing the obvious clues. That I was trying to do the best I could and by trying so hard I wasn't picking up her hints to leave her alone. That I apparently did by accident all the opposite things I should have done like texting her even more and be needy. And I don't want to talk about myself all the time but that I have felt real bad because of this and I felt the worst boyfriend in the world by doing the exact opposite things...

Also I want to give you guys some insight on the 'being enthousiastic' part. I realize it's not easy to live with me. I'm a barrel of energy. When everyone is tired I'm still full of energy. When the alarm clock goes of in the morning instantly I'm at 100% energy level. So I can be a busy guy...you understand. And sometimes I expect others to be too, a bit too much. She's talking about me surprising her at the job. We hadn't seen all day and she had to work till 1 AM. I had been awake for 20 hours or so and wanted to go to bed but instead I still drove to her work to surprise her with a short visit.

I'm the kind of guy that doesn't need much presents and stuff for birthdays and Christmas and others but just wants to be adored a bit let's say. So I was a bit hoping for a reaction like: waaaaaw, you're so sweet, you're the best boyfriend ever. That's the best gift one can ever give me. Instead she was happy but not overly enthousiastic. You see, I was not mad or angry but a bit disappointed. And I know that's stupid and childish and not a big deal and I didn't really make a fuss about it. I remember to just have said something like: I thought I was gonna get some more reaction....

Now I feel even worse for having said that. It sounds really selfish. But I think that's just one of the points we still needed some finetuning for in our relationship. I still needed to discover lots of things about her and how to behave in such a case and vice versa.

Well, here you go....instead of telling you only the relevant things I translated the entire mail.

Please advice me...should I be honest about my feelings to and just write about them in a polite no needy way and explain all to her. And then just leave her alone??

Fred

[Pollara]

Well Fred I am glad you feel relieved. But let me tell you one thing, you are who you are and there is nothing wrong with it. I am also very energetic as well but I don't consider myself enthusiastic. Instead, I can tell that my ex was overly enthusiastic over our relationship and did a lot of surprises for me. In the end, he even accused me to one common friend of being immature. I believe he was just trying for excuses in order to have a reason to break it off since he was feeling like that. I also believe because he was mentioning something like: love is the thing that want you to make things for the other, like he does for me, he felt that he doesn't have energy anymore to do these things for me and although I didn't ask for it, he couldn't stand it.
What I mean by that, is that I don't actually believe that your girlfriend didn't like your enthusiasm or something. It is just that she was trying to find an excuse to feel somewhat relieved of leaving you.

My opinion is to answer her something that will say how you feel but you can only accept and respect her decision and trully be there whenever she feels better. Well I kind of tell something like that to my ex. I am glad that your girlfriend said that she might leave you again at some point. I hope it works. It is good that at least she told you all these. My ex didn't tell me almost anything and that is why it made things worse. He just told me that he doesn't know how much this is going to take him and he doesn't want to keep me waiting so it is better to end it up and he just thanked me. And then asked me what is my opinion about it. I told him that of course it is not the best thing ever happened but I can only respect his decision and if he feels like wanting to be again with me he can tell me. Of course 7 months after I don't hold any hopes and my biggest regret was not telling him exactly what I felt. So I believe that it would be good to tell her how you feel.

Good luck!

PS and by the way, I knew that everything was over the time who change his msn picture of us to one of himself. I knew that it wasn't something that I should take it personally and never said anything about it, but it hurts to see there other people like they were the best friends ever and you meant nothing to your SO.

By the way it is still too early for her, not even one month had passed and same goes for you. I can say from what I have read that in the end, the people who got "dumped" lose patience and stop waiting. It is almost 7 months for me though and I cannot see a lot of changes in myself, while I was really strong with my break ups in the past. I really hope the best for you, but the only I can advise you is to just give up.

(Although it sounds so hard, it is the only good advice that I can give. I can see my mistakes, but I was very naive not to give up from the begining. I was seeing the signs, I had written all the forums but I wanted to have hope. Of course my ex didn't cut contact with me in the begining but it started gradually after 3 weeks. But he tried since he came to visit me in the other country and I guess there was my mistake. That this hold my hopes up. That if he is coming then he must want to see me and then when he sees me he will stop being like that. )

[kayc]

I wouldn't overwhelm her with all that, it might be a bit much for her. When I lost George, it did something to my focus, it made it hard to concentrate, and in the eight years since, I don't think it's back to what it was before. But in the early months, it was really tough.

You might give a brief summation of what you want to say...that you want to be supportive of her and if that means giving her space, you will do so. Also that you have talked to friends as your way of processing things in your own mind, you hadn't meant for them to tell her about it and certainly hadn't intended to put pressure on her. Tell her you understand that she can only muster enough to deal with her grief and that in itself must seem overwhelming, and you certainly understand that she can't give to others right now, that is just a given. Let her know you care for her and if she ever needs anything, you're still here.

Make it brief. Then give her her space as she requests. To do anything different will be to write a death warrant for your relationship. It's fine to be honest but there are different ways to deliver how you feel and that can make all the difference in the world. And just because you think something doesn't mean you need to tell her (that you miss her, that you wish you could spend time together, etc.). When someone is grieving they are ultra sensitive, can misunderstand intentions, etc.

[Pollara]

yes it is true KayC what you say. I don't consider myself pressury (this is a word propably that doesn't exist but whatever). I believe that if it was some other girl she would have been 100 mores pressure than me. I can tell of the advice they give me. Like call him and scold him and stuff. What I did was after the death and when he started became distant I had told him twice that I will leave the communication part to him since I can totally understand that he is not in the mood. I never mention anything about our relationship. When he came to visit me, I only asked him once if he wants to return to our country for summer holidays and he said he doesn't know. I only show compassion and told him that it is natural and it is natural not have energy. after he returned for 1.5 he stopped talking to me and only talk to me once in a month. I just sent him an email in the meantime in order not to be a pressure and told him that I won't return for summer but this might better because if I was there it might be pressure. He just said it is good that you will stay there or something like that. Then I didn't say anything totally anything for one month when I asked him if he have break it off. He told me no and that he wants to talk to me before he makes any decision and I told him it is only natural to feel like that and he can have all the space he wants and when I will return to my country at autumn we will see our relationship but let's consider it a pause. Of course this was the extra additional pressure so he called me 2 weeks after and broke it off. Since then. I did the mistake and ask him 3 days after the break up if this was the reason in order to take an answer like: I don't know, I cannot think clear, I am ready to take antidepressants. Then I spoke him 1.5 after and then few days ago. All these make 8 times that I tried to contact him in 7 months. The 4 of them was after the breaking up and only 1 of them was about our relationship because I had learnt something that I heard he told about me and I was out of mind. For me, I don't consider these times that I added pressure and I am pretty positive that noone would have been so patient like me. BUT, for him now I think that this was extra pressure. I don't know, I might send him something in his birthday but I don't think of contacting him again. I told him so many times that if he wants he knows where to find me (in a polite way). I also sent him sms texts one in 1.5 month to show him that I am still thinking of him and see if he is doing well. He didn't bother to answer. I don't believe there is nothing else to do. Maybe he even thinks that I am not giving him enough space. Of course there definitely will be another girl that he will be there at the right time and she will take the space that I gave him. But that is life.

Everyone is suggesting giving space, but to be honest, I didn't see a lot of cases coming back from the (outer space) so I don't want to hold my hopes up for something impossible. I really don't know what you should do Fred. Whether you do the one or the other. Personally on the one hand I would have feel happy that at least he told me something but on the other kind of insulted that she prefered her friends over me, thinking I was anedequate for that.

[Fred79]

Hi All,

Well yesterday we drove about 10 hours, from Switzerland back home...so I had a lot of time to think.

Should I write or shouldn't I?

If so, what shall I say? Should I keep it brief? Should I open up my heart?

Pollara advized me to tell about my feelings as she regretted never to have done that.

Well, the situation is of course different. You've waited 7 months????

Man, I could never do that. I'm too impatient for that. On top, I'm also self-protectionist. I don't want to self-destroy completely. I had a super severe car accident 10 years ago and had a cerebral bleeding. I was more dead than alive but survived it. Ever since I learned to appreciate life even more than I did before. On top, I'm a very positive person and I know all will be OK in the end. I'm sure I'm the kind of person that will never need anti-depressiva. But that doesn't mean I don't have feelings and can't feel bad sometimes. Only, my survivor-instinct takes over after a while and let me remember my accident and to enjoy life.

So, yes, as probably all of you, I had bad break-ups before and sure I cried before but I always got back up. And as Pollara, I actually got over it quite fast and easy as my positive mind was stronger than any negative feelings.

This of course is different, no bad things between the 2 of us happened. No one cheated, no one had fewer feelings, on the contrary, we were getting closer and closer and all was getting better and better. And then...it suddenly stops. That's the hard part. I know after a break-up you always miss the good things you had, but after a while you start thinking about the bad things too and you realize why you actually broke up and it helps you in getting over things. But in this case, there aren't any bad things to remember...

However, Pollara, I don't agree with you she broke up with me already. And she's looking for arguments to defend her breaking up. Or my translation is bad or something but I've read it over and over again but what I get is that she has to find her own place first. And only then there will be room for someone else. She took the time to talk about her feelings, me and our relationship with my brother-in-law and she took the time and found the energy to write me an email talking about her feelings. I really appreciate that, it shows she still thinks about me and feels she needs to give me an explanation. She's shutting herself down from everybody, only her 2 best friends are close to her. I can't believe she won't take anybody back in her life of all the other friends after some time, that's impossible. On top, as I told you she cares about other people's feelings too much. She would never intentionally hurt someone. I just can't believe that. And believe me, I'm not gullible at all. I'm not artificially putting my hopes up.

Kay advized me to answer but not make it a very long mail and just focus on me understanding her.

Well, I decided to do as much as how I am. If things wouldn't work out I would never forgive myself I hadn't let her know how I felt.

And on the other hand I wanted to let her know I understood what she meant without talking to much about myself.

It became a longer mail than I thought it would be.

In a chronoligal order I described the days ever since the day her father died. What I did, what I wanted to do, why I did it, what I was feeling, how she responded and how I interpreted it. Untill this day.

I explained my first concern was to comfort her but not getting response made me think about us. I thanked her a million times for the energy and time she had put in that mail and that it helped me a lot in understanding her.

I explained the misunderstandings and I apologized for me looking so much for answers that I did the exact opposite things she wanted.

I chose my words carefully and the general tone of the mail is all is about her and not me but that I just wanted her to know what I felt. As her mail helped me a lot in understanding her I wanted her to understand me more and not getting frustrated more and more by each other.

I ended with saying that I will respect her wish and give her the time she needs.

That I know she's a strong girl and I'm convinced 100% she will make her father proud and that I can only hope I will have a place in making him proud.

I'm an honest person and I feel better by being also honest to her. Maybe again, I wrote too many things (I even said that in the mail) but I rather have all cleared out.

Let's see if I get any response....

Fred

[kayc]

Pollara,

I can understand your wishing you'd had your say...it wouldn't have helped you stay together but it might have been cathartic for YOU to express yourself. But Fred is still hoping with this girl, so I'd like to see him give it the best chance. Of everyone here, I don't think any of us did anything "wrong", in fact, quite the opposite, we were all supportive, understanding, stalwart, patient. We didn't deserve what we got. I know these are situations that you can't affix "blame" to someone, it just is what it is.

Jim surprised me Thursday afternoon by coming by my office at the end of the day. Obviously he still thinks about me, he calls, and I see him about once a year. But it isn't going beyond that. Whatever he is stuck in, it's his to be stuck in and his to do something about, not mine. So I let it go. He's just a pleasant person I once knew now. That's kind of sad, but it's how it is.