If You're Going Through Hell

[TomPB]

3 hours ago, kayc said:

When my dad died my mom did not shed a tear at his funeral, but came home and immediately cleaned out his closet and started throwing away his belongings.  At the time it shocked me and I took it for her being unaffected by his death.

I now realize I was wrong.  We all grieve differently.  She may have been in shock.  I've learned in the time since not to judge anyone's reactions to grief as it's such a crazy time, shock, grief fog, disbelief, we deal with it all at once!  If we look off our rockers, it's no wonder!

For a few days after I lost Susan I had a compulsion to throw out her things. It's just luck that I didn't throw out anything precious.  I don't know why I had it but I know I was shocked and traumatized and it was very strong.

[Margm]

Tom, most all of Billy's involved crazy sporting goods.  After I let various people take them, it dawned on me I should have given them to his nephew.  Another mistake.  I have had lots of mistakes.  I looked at things yesterday, at one of my lowest moments, thinking I could "go" at any time and all I want is a "stone" that I pick out myself.  I talked to my credit union and they fixed me an account.  I cannot get into it until first of next year.  Gotta hang on till then.  Gonna try.

[kevin]

Its taken me almost 3 years and I have given away all of Angela's cloths.......Jewelry and keepsakes I'm doling out to family members......This downsizing making me make many hard decisions ......Did some outside superficial painting around fence and garden...Showed the house 4 times,  so there is interest....

[Gwenivere]

8 hours ago, kayc said:

I wonder if there isn't an aide that could come stay with you while recovering from back surgery?  

I'm struggling right now, with sense of purpose, etc. don't know why as it's getting to the sunnier time of year, I should be feeling better, not worse.  Maybe it's because it's getting closer to June (George's birthday, my dad's birthday, my folk's anv. and George's death day).  All within nine days of each other.

 Yes, there are aides.  Number one, I don’t want or think I can handle surgery and two, don’t  want a stranger in my house.  

Your June sounds like my October/November then he holidays string of events.  All are anniversaries of what we’re good times now tainted and painful.  Especially hard because people are getting all geared up for festivities.  Stores, music and TV are hard to take with all the family emphasis.  October is his death, November is our birthdays and January our anniversary.  Throw in the holidays and it’s the toughest time.       

[Gin]

I have lost my sense of purpose, also.  Everything  I did was with Al.  I still do not want to go places that we used to go together.  We would always attend the local college concerts, but I want nothing to do with it any  more.   A friend of mine can not believe that I do not want to go anymore.  My life was so entwined with Al that I am still truly lost now.

[Margm]

Gin, I understand completely.  Cannot go places we used to go or traveling like we used to do.  It is like it was "ours" and without him, it is just mine and I stay away from that.  I hope your tests went well.  I have not seen where you posted.

[Gwenivere]

I don’t know that I feel as lost as I feel such sadness and apathy.  Lost works, but I feel that in other ways.  Living life I feel lost hoping for meaning as the time passes.  I know I have said this before, but at over 3 years I was hoping things would somewhat improve.  Each new challenge (now my car making weird noises) means I have to handle it alone.  I still have his car, but we would drop mine off late at night so I didn’t need the dealership to drive me home.  I’m so tired of doing things on my own. He was the one that would take over and I would go on knowing he would take care of it.  I took care of other things freeing him.  He was my 'safe' person.  Nothing seemed monumental as a team.

[kevin]

I can relate to the stranger caregiver comments....What about the Dogs?.....you would need dog walker or kennel them for a couple weeks?....back surgery does carry risk, if you elect surgery be prepared for homecare, and cancel if not required......tough decision

[Margm]

9 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

Each new challenge (now my car making weird noises)

Billy and I  separated for six weeks a long time ago.  I saw him every day, I just slept in my RV at night in a place a long way away from the lake house I left him behind, to live alone.  I had many "alone" nights to think about what would happen.  It actually was the only time I had really been on my own.  Kids were grown.  One of my coworkers had found someone who liked movies as much as she did.  One time I mused "how will I change my oil in the car?"  She had never married, had been with many "boyfriends" but enjoyed being alone.  She looked at me like I was a dunce and she said "you will take your car to an oil changing business."  Well, of course, but I had not done any of my own thinking for so long, it was a totally acceptable answer to something I thought was a huge problem.  Most of you probably have been "on your own" before.  I went from straight depending on parents to depending on Billy.  No in-between.  I had made decisions on my own before, but I always had Billy to back me up, or I didn't do it.  At the end of the six weeks he had started staying nights too so there was no separation.  I had a strange sensation that I liked being on my own with a decision to make.  Many years invested.  I could have walked away.  Still not sure of myself.  I'm glad I made the decision to stay.  He was my best friend after this.  We could talk, talk as equals, not as boss and employee, or someone who was along for the ride.  And I miss him so terribly.  "The one left must stay" and I still get angry at that.  I stayed, but I cannot stay forever.  I did find out, women........or men, either one can live as one person.  It is not easy wanting our partner, our other half with us, but they left us.  Not on their own accord, but now we are alone, and I will go to an oil changing place to get my oil changed.  Why not?  Billy did the same.  I did depend on him.  I miss him.  But, he left.  Now it has to be "do it" or quit. 

[kayc]

I've always taken my car to my dealer's service department, they've taken good care of it.  If they tell me it needs something that's going to cost an arm and a leg, I get a second opinion from my son or someone else knowledgeable.  I always ask them if it needs to be done as in will it affect it's running or can it wait.  They're usually pretty candid.  When I was out of work I waited on the cabin air filter for instance.  When I hear a different noise it usually means something has changed and it's worth having looked at, addressed.  Last night I heard a different noise in my computer so I shut it down and cleaned it.  Noise gone.  Can't ignore noises, it usually costs a lot more to wait.

I do know what you mean though, and I feel the same as all of you do...together we were a team.  Our lives were completely entwined, I can't believe how much so for no longer than we got to be together!  We were such a perfect team.  It does get tiring to have everything fall on me and not be able to at least talk things over with him.  He was so good at taking care of me, and I of him.

[Gin]

Had my CT scan and nothing definitive.  All looked OK.  So, why all the pain?  Could be muscular, which would be great!

Can't  take most pain killers, except Tylenol, which just doesn't do it.  When it gets really bad, I take Tylenol 3.  Every 2-3 days, I feel pretty good.   Can not figure out what makes it better or worse.  I keep track of everything I eat and do.  No clue.   I guess I just put up with it for a few weeks and then go back and see what else to do.  At least it is not as bad as it was.   

[Margm]

Gin, we don't like to hear it, but degenerative bone disease plays a big part in our problems.  They cannot really do anything about that.  We had Sally Field advertising a "bone saver" medication they had come out with and over the years with our bone density tests they have come up with new concoctions that will save our bones, but will it?  Costs a lot of money, so at least we are saving Big Pharma.  I thought it rather strange all my life I have been 5'2" and then measured again, I am 5 feet even.  I am not going to argue age with them.  I can see how my extremities and other parts of my body do not deny Isaac Newton and gravity.  My poor Billy suffered so many years with degenerative disk disease all his life and what we thought was his back problems was foretelling the end of his life.  We went to doctor twice yearly, he looked at whatever lab work involved his kidneys and the rest was overlooked.  I knew him personally, we were friends and acquaintances for years.  I had typed his heart felt death summaries where you could tell he was crying, that is why we loved him so much, but in this case, twice a year exams, watching only his kidney function (although full labs were drawn), I know he recognized he missed something.  Possibly why we never received a bill.  My hips give me misery, possibly because the bones were so radiated over 30 years ago.  It just "ain't" no fun getting old, but some don't make it to this age.  I don't know whether to be happy I am here or sad.  Lots of sadness.  Lots of pain, and I can only take Tylenol, but cannot take the Tylenol #3.  

[TomPB]

14 hours ago, Marg M said:

Gin, I understand completely.  Cannot go places we used to go or traveling like we used to do.  It is like it was "ours" and without him, it is just mine and I stay away from that.  I hope your tests went well.  I have not seen where you posted.

I must be the extreme opposite. I'm following most of old routines. Susan always said "PBs hate change". Maybe this is hurting, I'm not sure. The old routines bring the memories, and they bring 99% painful loss vs maybe 1% happy thoughts of good times. When I have traveled to new places maybe the grief attacks were less frequent. None of the routines have the impact of being in our home. Susan is in every square foot. Moving would be like deserting her, I have no doubt that putting our home up for sale would trigger MASSIVE grief attacks, to say nothing of the fact that I LIKE where I live. But who knows, maybe I'd have a better chance of finding some peace in a new place. I'm just a sad & confused 🐼

[MartyT]

I think the best you can do, Tom, is to try different things and see what works for you. Everyone is different.

As for moving, I would say this:

- Make no major decisions for at least six to twelve months after the death of your beloved, until you've experienced all the seasons of your emotions. 

- Until you're emotionally able to make any big decisions you won't regret later, you might try making ones that are reversible.

Read more about this here: To Move or Not: Making Decisions in the Wake of A Recent Loss

[Margm]

Tom, I am "different."  I have to do things to protect me.  I do not feel I am dishonoring Billy, rather I am taking care of me and it hurts me too much to be where we were.  While this same thing gives comfort to some people, it bothers me.  And, I did move.......fast.  And, I bought things that we had not used together, just the bed, but I sleep on lots of pillows and the two bottom pillows have his two pair of pants he wore "everyday" and his Tee shirt, the beige one.  It felt good to him and it was neat.  So, I have him close.  He never leaves my heart and I talked to him all the way to Magnolia today.  Not our route.  There is a country highway, hardly any traffic.  Passes by our family plot in the big cemetery where generations of my family are planted.  Down here in the south we have the honeysuckle and some other white flower that I don't know the name of, it has a fragrance that carries with the wind.  We are expecting rain (had it on the way home), but the scent of those flowers followed me for about 20 miles through country that is mostly timber, occasional homes, highway all the way.  Put flowers on my parents and grandparents graves on my way home.  I was not sad.  I was not happy.  There was some peace, but conversation was carried on with Billy in those dark hanging clouds.

[Margm]

I am different, sometimes backwards.  I went to Hot Springs today.  Had to get Kelli's car.  I went to see Scott in his new apartment and I cried when I left.  He has been up there 20 years this month.  I am miserable being up there where Billy left me.  But, down in this part of the country his marriage broke up and he lost his kids when they moved to California.  He was into drugs so bad that his friends that stayed in drugs, they are almost all gone now.  So, this part of the country is sad for him and his girlfriend is from up there.  He will come stay with me a couple of weeks ever so often.  I don't want him to be sad.  Kelli has a wonderful apartment, better than mine, but she can afford it.  So that is working out.  Kelli is my daughter, Brianna my granddaughter.  Hope things work out for her too.  Wish things could work out  for everyone.  I have one thing I want to do, I want that monument set on our site with the names like I want them.  I so want that before I go..  I want to see it.  

Yeah, sometimes I am cynical.

 

[TomPB]

On 5/4/2018 at 4:16 PM, MartyT said:

I think the best you can do, Tom, is to try different things and see what works for you. Everyone is different.

As for moving, I would say this:

- Make no major decisions for at least six to twelve months after the death of your beloved, until you've experienced all the seasons of your emotions. 

- Until you're emotionally able to make any big decisions you won't regret later, you might try making ones that are reversible.

Read more about this here: To Move or Not: Making Decisions in the Wake of A Recent Loss

Marty, thanks for the reply. I'm not making any sudden changes, I'm the opposite. I have made only tiny changes. I love where we live and I didn't have the strength  to go through selling it anyway. My counselor just tells me to keep an open mind to possibilities and I will do that. No idea what I will do, no idea if I'll have a new partner or if Susan was my one and only. Day at a time.

[TomPB]

Marg, I am 100% on board with everyone being different and our need to protect ourselves, so it would be hard for you to make me angry. Maybe to protect myself I have to be where Susan and I were so happy. Everyone is different. Have to admit, the memories also bring a lot of pain, which makes me wonder if staying really is best. I don't know. I know that I could not have faced the emotions of going through a sale of this precious place with Susan in every square foot. People are always telling me I can do whatever I want, and I say yes, I know, but I don't know what I want so you're not helping.

Today is beautiful with trees and flowers bursting out. Instead of enjoying it all I can think of is how Susan would love it and what she would be doing, and it mainly just makes me sad. Grief world is very messed up.

[Margm]

Tom, if I am counting, and I hate numbers, but this month will be 2 years and 7 months he has been gone.  I honestly do not think I have done anything that he would be disappointed with me for, except the worrying, and he always got peeved at my worrying, and even if I kept my mouth shut, one of the  last things he said to me was "don't you know I see the worry in your eyes."  Could not hide it and he hated it.  You are a man, and no matter how much we all hurt, how most all the pain is the same, but men have more of an analytical mind and if something does not work, even if some of us women do have some diagnostic purpose to our brains and bodies, in my estimation, you men have us beat.  If Gorilla Glue and duct tape won't take care of it, I'm lost.  I have kept a commode seat on now for two years.  Never could do that before.  Billy had to change it often.  Not now.  Gorilla glue where the screws go in has kept that sucker in place, and it will stay.  It is wooden, so easy to clean. (TMI).  Anyhow, if your house gives you pleasure, if anyone's house gives them pleasure and they can afford to stay.........don't worry about it.  If it gives you horror and pain like mine did, get the hell away from any of it.  At my age, I know if I cannot die fast and no more worrying, then there is a place for me.  I hope my mind will let me make that decision.  

I have said this before but Joan Didion's husband (John Gregory Dunne) was at the dinner table and died from a heart attack.  Their daughter was in the hospital with sepsis from pneumonia.  Joan wrote "The Year of Magical Thinking" and did not mention their daughter's death in the book.  She wrote about that later.  I thought of Karen when I was reading it.  So many with so much grief.  We all just do the best we can.  We-just-have-to-take-care-of-ourselves.  

ADDENDUM:  And I have said this before too, I saw the flowers this spring, I saw the fluorescent greens to the trees with new leaves forming.  I have not seen that in a long time, but I did appreciate the beauty.  

[kayc]

Marg,

I think you are smart and I envy you how brave you were to make the decisions you did, I think that was not only right for you, but smart, it makes sense.  For me I can't imagine living away from the place we loved together, but then again, I understand the allure of not having to be responsible for and make decisions for this place, shoveling snow, hauling/stacking firewood, sometimes I feel alone with all of the responsibility but then again all of the hard work is good for me.  I don't think any of our decisions are easy. 

Tom,

You are in tune with yourself, listening to yourself, and making your decisions accordingly, and have an open mind, I think you will do fine.  It's all any of us can do to listen to ourselves and be open to what is best and that can change from time to time.

15 hours ago, Marg M said:

I saw the flowers this spring, I saw the fluorescent greens to the trees with new leaves forming.  I have not seen that in a long time, but I did appreciate the beauty.  

Marg, that's wonderful!  I am seeing them too, Arlie and my time on the trails yesterday was wonderful, not only for me, but for him.  Incredible beauty!

[Margm]

You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It’s their mistake, not my failing. – Richard P. Feynman   

Tell me why you would discuss your frame of mind, why you would possibly discuss your grief with someone that will pile a 25 pound weight on your head and expect you to walk away without struggling.

I told my sister I was having a bad day and she mentioned the word "wallow" and I heard no more and told her I did exceptionally well for an old woman with a 25 pound weight put on my head.  Maybe my legs hurt worse, maybe the Myralax might wipe me down to just a weak person, but without it I die.  Maybe I eat the wrong things, but they are on my diet.  Maybe I am one hell of a strong woman to be 75 years old and take care of the things I have to take care of.  I have taken control of me.  People are not happy with me.  I am sorry.  What are they gonna do, grieve for this bitch I have become?

Do not talk about your grief with someone you know will not understand.  Do not talk to anyone without empathy.  You do know these people.  You do know what you can say.  And, if you do not rely on them to understand...........you will not be a martyr, you will have no hurt feelings.  Lie to the SOB's and tell them you are doing just fine, thank you.  Unless you have a really Christian friend that wants to help you, do not set yourself up to be hurt.  THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.  They will one day, I'm sorry to say and they will wander around in a trance wondering what they could possibly do to help themselves.  When they do, be there for them.  Otherwise, STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE YOU KNOW DO NOT HAVE THE LOSS YOU HAVE.  That way you will not hear the word "wallowing" and after I got through with that person, they were praising me for my strength.

I do have strength.  So do you.  It is there.  I honestly do not know how long I will have it, but dammit, until that time I am a strong woman and Billy will be proud.  I grovel to no one.

(Except you people who understand, you, you, and you, and probably you too).

[Gwenivere]

Excellent advice, Marg.  In the beginning, people were sympathetic which I mistook as empathetic.  I sure know the difference now.  Also how the sympathy fades after a few years.  People don’t even ask how I am doing anymore.  You can’t even educate them that they don’t understand, they don’t understand that either.  Just tried that recently and was reminded of the futility.  It’s so hard to converse with people going on as usual.  Pretending I care.  Having to hide the pain thier pleasures bring me now that I don’t have them.  I feel,like I am lying to them, but no purpose is served by diminishing their experiences nd plans.  It’s having to accept they can do nothing for me that is so hard.  

[Margm]

Gwen, we do not know what other people have in their life.  One friend a little older than me just lost her middle aged son to cancer.  I really don't know what to say.  Sometimes it is better to say nothing than something that is a flat vanilla without the alcohol.  You cannot help them.  You can say "I understand" and they look at you like "no you don't".  It is their grief, just like ours is our own.  I cannot understand Joan Didion not writing about her daughter's death when she wrote her husbands.  She did write it later.  She did not combine the two grief's.  Even going through it we cannot imagine what the other person is going through.  My other friend breathed a sign of relief that the cancer was gone from her husband only to have him sink into a dementia that he still gets around, but he is a baby again, has to be watched constantly. We can just hope for the best for all of us.

[kayc]

Wow.  Wallow?  Totally wrong word to use with you, Marg!  Wow!  That's all I have to say.  I can imagine what you felt like unleashing on her!  And after all you've done for her, for everyone! The least they could do is show some respect even if they can't relate or understand.

I have my sisters, but they haven't a clue what it's like to lose their husband, they all still have each other to help them through their old age.  There's nothing like this, but to go through it.

Reminds me of when I was 23 and newly divorced.  I'd been through hell in my six year marriage to a monster that beat me continually and cheated on me.  I let him have the house, the car, the furniture, everything I'd worked so hard for, I just wanted to escape with my life.  I was sitting in Sunday School with about fifty other young people, college aged, listening to girls talking about their wardrobe and their nails and their silly dates...and it all seemed so frivolous and shallow.  I was their age but couldn't relate at all.  It made me feel like an old woman.

That is us now, listening to others talking about things that really aren't important in the grand scheme of things.  We know what is important...we lost it.

[Margm]

 

And yes, I do know it is my fault.  I never taught them to swim, but I can throw a life support.  My mom never helped me.  I never learned how to swim, but I guess I do a mean dog paddle.