Gwenivere Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 To steal from Kay from another topic.... *** I've lost grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, niece, nephew, friends, and lots of pets, but the hardest by far was my husband. I think pets ranked second, they're in your everyday life and it affects you on a deep level. The level of grief seems to correlate with the depth of love we shared, of course everyone handles grief differently so what we see is not necessarily what is. **** I am forced to face all the feelings grief brings. Last night after months of confusion and frustration I realized something that was readily apparent but I missed. Yes, the hardest loss ever will be Steve. I agree with Kay losing pets is 2nd in my life as we had no kids, truly close family and friends, and while important, was not a 24/7 relationship. That doesn't mean I didn't miss them terribly when we lost them. I read so much here about love. What I feel is the intense and irreplaceable love I have for Steve and our furry kids. I know if you never had a pet it may sound kinda crazy. Where I seem to stray from most on this is I don't feel love anymore. Love coming to me. There are a lot of 'love you's' when I talk to the few people still in my life and it's a nice phrase, but I don't truly feel it coming to or going from me. I don't feel Steve still loving me anymore. I think about him often and only feel my love for him and the emptiness that it has left me. Like a well that is running dry for my soul. I don't have the feeling many have of carrying that to keep them going. So I wonder, how long can a person keep living while they find that well that was always being replenished drying up? I don't write him, barely talk to him now. He is not here. I don't have that feeling he knows or is aware of my love for him. I am alone. I don't even know what my dogs feel is truly love or need and instinctual bonding. I have to settle on they are happy as they cannot tell me. So I will trek out into the world yet again feeling I am not loved by anyone. I will come home to the reminders of a time I was. I will go thru the motions of living. I will see couples hold hands, put am arm around the other is even discuss whether this cereal is better that that one. Together. i will hear the plans in person or on phones for daily life. Yes, I was loved once. Yes, it was a great thing. But it doesn't carry me thru the days and keep me alive inside. If anything, it is the opposite. I have no real love to give to anyone right now. It would be a disservice to Steve if I was not totally changed by this. I really envy those of you that find that love you have a flame still burning to spur you on to this new life we face. Maybe I wil find it someday, but not today. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brat#2 Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 No real words to say Gwen, other than I hear you. Joyce 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gin Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 Gwen, i so feel your emptiness and loneliness. I hate the life I have left. I have tried so hard to be busy...health club, book clubs, counsellor, grief group. It is busy work. I have not made any real friends since Al died. Many old ones have left. My church did not really support me. The church is almost closed up. Very few people left. Neighbors all have partners and not too interested in dealing with me. My kids try but they have their lives and are busy. Al was their step father, even though he was more of a father to them than their own. I want to volunteer either at Shriner's children's hospital or the VA. I am concerned about the winter and driving, etc.. I firmly believe I have to Give in order to heal. It sure is hard to get out there to do anything when you just don't feel like it. Hang in there, Gwen. Eventually we will find our purpose. My daughter wants me to get a dog. I think she is right. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mittam99 Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 32 minutes ago, Gwenivere said: I will trek out into the world yet again feeling I am not loved by anyone. I will come home o the reminders of a time I was. I will go thru the motions of living. I will see couples hold hands, put am ran around the other is even discuss whether this cereal is better that that one. Together. i will hear the plans in person or on phones for daily life. Yes, I was loved once. Yes, it was a great thing. But it doesn't carry me thru the days and keep me alive inside. If anything, it is the opposite. I have no real love to give to anyone right now. It would be a disservice to Steve if I was not totally changed by this. I really envy those of you that find that love you have a flame still burning to spur you on to this new life we face. Maybe I wil find it someday, but not today. Gwen, we're all different and we all differ to an extent on the way we take our grief journey. One common bond we all share though, is that we were loved deeply by our spouse or partner. And we gave love back with the same intensity. Our lives will never be the same and certainly we will never again have such a once in a lifetime love. Where you and I differ is that Tammy's love is still resonating in my life. Sure my days suck for the most part and I'm lonely as hell, but there is a certain peace I derive knowing that Tammy will always be a part of me. Of course, l am devastated that we can't interact like we did and I can't kiss her or touch her, can't hear her laugh or feel her soft skin. But the life and experiences we shared changed me into a different person. Made me feel like I was loveable. That I belonged. Tammy and I were the perfect team. Sure those memories really aren't enough. I want to go back in time and be with my wife again. But, in some small way those memories of Tammy allow me to at least function in an utterly sad world. I want to comment on you saying "It would be a disservice to Steve if I was not totally changed by this". Of course we are absolutely and forever changed by our loss. It's the worst thing that has happened in our lives on so many levels. The thing is, I honestly don't think Steve or Tammy would want our lives to be filled with misery. I suspect, without doubt, they'd want us to find some measure of happiness and some sense of comfort. And if they could talk to us, I imagine they'd want us to be the same person they fell in love with. All we can do though is try to live our lives a day at a time and see where this journey takes us. Easy, this is not. Hugs to you Gwen. You're a really good soul. Mitch 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted November 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 I know Steve wouldn't want me to be miserable. But he of all people would understand. So hence the dilemna. also his telling me he didn't know if he could survive the loneliness. Can't live in memories. Can't make more now. He depending on my touch and thoughts as I did his. To have that stop is like another death. Good soul? Well, one that is still here, griping, whining or ever questioning. Best I can do. :-). Thanks for that Mitch. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 My dear Gwen, I cannot help but wonder if, as Mitch has said, you realize what a special person you are, and if you love yourself even half as much as your beloved Steve loved you, and as he still loves you now. I want to share this bit of wisdom with you, in hopes that it speaks to you and offers you some comfort. As you read it, think of your beloved husband, and what he's given to you: Loving Ourselves First We are at our most hopeless and despairing in our loss when we’ve not yet learned how to give ourselves or provide for ourselves what it is that we received from another who is now gone. It is true of any loss in life (when children grow up and leave home; when we lose a job and the identity that goes with it; when we lose a significant other who was the only source of unconditional love in our life). To find the gift in loss, we must first learn what it is that our loved one gave us that we don’t yet give to ourselves — and then find ways to learn somehow to provide this for ourselves — to become more whole, more inter-dependent as opposed to dependent on those we love, for the sake of our own growth and our own relationships. Ask yourself this question: Do you love yourself the way you love your deceased beloved? And do you love yourself the way your deceased beloved loves you?You may respect yourself for certain roles and certain accomplishments, but do you love yourself — unconditionally — even half as much or as fully as your beloved loves you? Loving another can be so out of balance. You can never ever reconcile the grief of losing a loved one as long as you pine for what that person gave you without even trying to learn to give it to yourself — to love yourself. The lesson here is that the profound, unconditional love we get from our loved ones need not die with them. We need not be without that love, even after their death. You can learn to love yourself. We still need to be loved by others — but if we don’t love ourselves first, we need and expect too much from other beings to meet our needs. If we’re dependent only on an external source for love, we set ourselves up for horrible suffering at the time of separation or death. When we learn to love ourselves, we will still experience the pain of loss, but our suffering will change to quiet grace. ~ Teresa Wagner, in Legacies of Love 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scba Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 I listen to you Gwen. I know I died the day he died, the moment his heart stopped beating. Two years later I question Love. What is our Love worth for, now? What is Love when death part us? I don't have an answer. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie Lee Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 I have heard the phrase , "love is a verb..." Maybe if we can find a way to show our love to someone ..it might help us. Nothing will ever replace our significant other... sometimes it's almost a quandary in my own mind as to why I am left alive... Not sure if these thoughts make sense or help. We love you Gwen... hugs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Gwen, I wrote another one of my word salads. I won't tire you out though. Look, the pain would not be so tough if the love had not been so much. And, you volunteer. I know those people, you make a difference in their life. You make a difference in ours too. Don't like to see any of us hurting, but we loved, we love, we have loved. Hugs my friend. I wish you peace. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdownes Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Gwen my heart aches for you I truly wish I knew the answer to help you, to help all of us this is such a hard journey, I am one of those people who feels Kevin's love still I can close my eyes and still see and feel his love, I will never let that disappear but to be honest it doesn't always help, it doesn't take away the emptiness, the loneliness, the heartache , the longing to hear his voice other than in my head, it feels like that will never disappear either so trust me you have nothing to envy in those of us who still feel their love, we were all greatly loved, we all loved greatly, we are all fighting the daily battle of making it through another day, we can all find a way that is right for us in time even if not today hugs to you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polly Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Gwen, It just sucks! I say this all the time. My friends and some of my family really don't know how to respond to me when I say it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted November 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 I want to thank all of you for your caring and supportive replies. A part of not feeling love is I feel I have none to give to others. I so want to feel connected to those few that matter in my life. This is definitely hard for me as I so want to be that caring person I was. And I do care, I just feel used up right now. Running low on supply. Marty, you say love ourselves as they loved us. I understand the concept, but I don't know how to do that. I'm trying to find goals, reason, purpose as this new me. It's such a slow journey tho. It's like learning what love is al over again in this new world. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 8 hours ago, Gwenivere said: I'm trying to find goals, reason, purpose as this new me. It's such a slow journey tho. It's like learning what love is al over again in this new world. Yes, Gwen ~ exactly. That is what each of us is trying to do, and it is indeed a slow journey. It takes as long as it takes. Be where you are, and let it be enough. That is part of loving yourself. ♥ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Gwen, I am sorry, my heart really goes out to you. I wish I could "fix" this for you, but I also know from experience that our grief is an individual journey and we all find our own way through it. I pray you feel love even if from your furry friends as I have. I think when we're all wrapped up in our grief it overshadows everything else and maybe we don't notice, let alone feel, what is. I know that was the case with me the earlier years after George died. I was so wrapped up in my cocoon that I didn't even notice my dog was grieving and hurting...my daughter had to point it out to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 I am only going to draw on experience. This is not to qualify as advice. I took antidepressants for so long. When Prozac came out, I might have been one of the first customers. I took it for so many years but one night during a nightmare I was having, I took a plug out of Billy's sleeping back thinking I was fighting some fight in a nightmare. It is a long standing family joke, but to poor Billy, it was not funny. I told my shrink, thinking she would laugh too, but she started getting me off the Prozac. I had noticed for years the absence of being able to cry, a blunting of feelings. Now, I cannot take any of the antidepressants. My son just started taking one for bipolar that can cause some bad side effects but he feels so much better, he does not want to quit taking it. It has not toned down his artistic impressions as all the others have. He is not like my daughter, who will take 3-4 psychotropic medications at once.. This is the only one that helps him, and I sure hope it does not have any bad results, as he loves feeling happy. I would have to say that the antidepressant caused a problem with having everyday feelings. I was taking them when my dad passed away. I could not even cry. But, I am not taking them now and have not cried for my mom. Now Billy, that is another subject completely. I can watch/listen to music and I cry buckets. This is just me. I do not know how other people react, but while taking them there was not any euphoric moments, so they did not do me like amphetamines (for which I did have prescriptions). But when the amphetamines wore off there was terrible depression. And now, I am allowed nothing except Xanax and blood pressure medications. The ER doc gave me a written prescription for an opiate for the pain in my foot with me telling him I could not take pain medications. Of course I did not fill it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie Lee Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Marty, " be where you are and let it be enough" ....Tks...That speaks volumes to me today.❤️ Gwen, I think just being you, you give so much love...I hope today is a good day for you. I had a good visit with my late husbands brother and his wife yesterday . We visited Kev's gravesite and we all cried. Then we toasted him at lunch ..talked about the past and the future... Today I am tired and sitting with a heating pad on my back...up two steps back one or three... "be where you are and let it be enough".. Well said Marty, thank you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted November 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 12 hours ago, kayc said: Gwen, I am sorry, my heart really goes out to you. I wish I could "fix" this for you, but I also know from experience that our grief is an individual journey and we all find our own way through it. I pray you feel love even if from your furry friends as I have. I think when we're all wrapped up in our grief it overshadows everything else and maybe we don't notice, let alone feel, what is. I know that was the case with me the earlier years after George died. I was so wrapped up in my cocoon that I didn't even notice my dog was grieving and hurting...my daughter had to point it out to me. Thank you, Kay. I choose to believe it is love I feel from the furry kids. What makes me feel bad is I don't return it right now as I normally would. I know it is from having to do everything for them for needs and then they want play which was always easier to have a partner to do some of it. I only have one dog that we had together and she has moved past grief. That magic they possess for being in the moment after she got used to he wasn't a part of daily life anymore. That is not to say she wouldn't be in absolute heaven if he walked thru the door! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted November 15, 2016 Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Can you hire a youngster to take your dogs out and play with them? I know my dog would love it if I had a fenced yard and a 12 year old boy to play with. I'm sure they know you love them, they probably wish they could ease some of the sadness they feel in you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted November 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 My kids are extremely bonded to me. One is too old to care about playing, the other too shy about strangers. Guess we wil just be the little pack we are boring as that canon be at times. As for easing of pain, they are pretty self centered on thier needs but happy if I summon the interest to play. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Arlie is aging but he still likes to play. He loves being chased around the house, back and forth around a middle wall. He also invented a game where he gets on the bed in a certain stance and I put my arms out next to his and he twirls to another position, and I do it again, and on and on it goes. Him and Kitty both love their belly rubs and I give them at least one a day. It's funny how they get into their routines and come to look forward to certain things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widowedbysuicide Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 I'm hoping the days are getting better for you. Hugs to you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 11/13/2016 at 5:40 PM, Gwenivere said: To steal from Kay from another topic.... *** I've lost grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, niece, nephew, friends, and lots of pets, but the hardest by far was my husband. I think pets ranked second, they're in your everyday life and it affects you on a deep level. The level of grief seems to correlate with the depth of love we shared, of course everyone handles grief differently so what we see is not necessarily what is. **** I am forced to face all the feelings grief brings. Last night after months of confusion and frustration I realized something that was readily apparent but I missed. Yes, the hardest loss ever will be Steve. I agree with Kay losing pets is 2nd in my life as we had no kids, truly close family and friends, and while important, was not a 24/7 relationship. That doesn't mean I didn't miss them terribly when we lost them. I read so much here about love. What I feel is the intense and irreplaceable love I have for Steve and our furry kids. I know if you never had a pet it may sound kinda crazy. Where I seem to stray from most on this is I don't feel love anymore. Love coming to me. There are a lot of 'love you's' when I talk to the few people still in my life and it's a nice phrase, but I don't truly feel it coming to or going from me. I don't feel Steve still loving me anymore. I think about him often and only feel my love for him and the emptiness that it has left me. Like a well that is running dry for my soul. I don't have the feeling many have of carrying that to keep them going. So I wonder, how long can a person keep living while they find that well that was always being replenished drying up? I don't write him, barely talk to him now. He is not here. I don't have that feeling he knows or is aware of my love for him. I am alone. I don't even know what my dogs feel is truly love or need and instinctual bonding. I have to settle on they are happy as they cannot tell me. So I will trek out into the world yet again feeling I am not loved by anyone. I will come home to the reminders of a time I was. I will go thru the motions of living. I will see couples hold hands, put am arm around the other is even discuss whether this cereal is better that that one. Together. i will hear the plans in person or on phones for daily life. Yes, I was loved once. Yes, it was a great thing. But it doesn't carry me thru the days and keep me alive inside. If anything, it is the opposite. I have no real love to give to anyone right now. It would be a disservice to Steve if I was not totally changed by this. I really envy those of you that find that love you have a flame still burning to spur you on to this new life we face. Maybe I wil find it someday, but not today. Gwenivere: I think you hit the nail on the head for me. I keep wondering what it is that keeps me so sorrowful and unanchored. I think it's what you said, I don't feel that great stabilizing, anchoring love I used to have from John. I'm looking for it. I always think I'm looking for "home." That is home. That is the thing that makes you feel connected to everything, content, able to hunker down and feel peace. I really wish I could find it again, but I guess I don't have much hope. I do have a daughter, but she has a life she is trying to make and although there is great love between us, it is different than the love from my husband that just seemed to be mine and was so mutual. I am clinging to the hope that anything is possible and maybe it's around the corner again....Cookie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 11/14/2016 at 0:56 AM, Gwenivere said: I want to thank all of you for your caring and supportive replies. A part of not feeling love is I feel I have none to give to others. I so want to feel connected to those few that matter in my life. This is definitely hard for me as I so want to be that caring person I was. And I do care, I just feel used up right now. Running low on supply. Marty, you say love ourselves as they loved us. I understand the concept, but I don't know how to do that. I'm trying to find goals, reason, purpose as this new me. It's such a slow journey tho. It's like learning what love is al over again in this new world. Having the same dilemma.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 11/13/2016 at 6:35 PM, MartyT said: My dear Gwen, I cannot help but wonder if, as Mitch has said, you realize what a special person you are, and if you love yourself even half as much as your beloved Steve loved you, and as he still loves you now. I want to share this bit of wisdom with you, in hopes that it speaks to you and offers you some comfort. As you read it, think of your beloved husband, and what he's given to you: Loving Ourselves First We are at our most hopeless and despairing in our loss when we’ve not yet learned how to give ourselves or provide for ourselves what it is that we received from another who is now gone. It is true of any loss in life (when children grow up and leave home; when we lose a job and the identity that goes with it; when we lose a significant other who was the only source of unconditional love in our life). To find the gift in loss, we must first learn what it is that our loved one gave us that we don’t yet give to ourselves — and then find ways to learn somehow to provide this for ourselves — to become more whole, more inter-dependent as opposed to dependent on those we love, for the sake of our own growth and our own relationships. Ask yourself this question: Do you love yourself the way you love your deceased beloved? And do you love yourself the way your deceased beloved loves you?You may respect yourself for certain roles and certain accomplishments, but do you love yourself — unconditionally — even half as much or as fully as your beloved loves you? Loving another can be so out of balance. You can never ever reconcile the grief of losing a loved one as long as you pine for what that person gave you without even trying to learn to give it to yourself — to love yourself. The lesson here is that the profound, unconditional love we get from our loved ones need not die with them. We need not be without that love, even after their death. You can learn to love yourself. We still need to be loved by others — but if we don’t love ourselves first, we need and expect too much from other beings to meet our needs. If we’re dependent only on an external source for love, we set ourselves up for horrible suffering at the time of separation or death. When we learn to love ourselves, we will still experience the pain of loss, but our suffering will change to quiet grace. ~ Teresa Wagner, in Legacies of Love How do you do that? I really want to, but can't just make it happen it seems....Cookie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 11/13/2016 at 6:11 PM, mittam99 said: Gwen, we're all different and we all differ to an extent on the way we take our grief journey. One common bond we all share though, is that we were loved deeply by our spouse or partner. And we gave love back with the same intensity. Our lives will never be the same and certainly we will never again have such a once in a lifetime love. Where you and I differ is that Tammy's love is still resonating in my life. Sure my days suck for the most part and I'm lonely as hell, but there is a certain peace I derive knowing that Tammy will always be a part of me. Of course, l am devastated that we can't interact like we did and I can't kiss her or touch her, can't hear her laugh or feel her soft skin. But the life and experiences we shared changed me into a different person. Made me feel like I was loveable. That I belonged. Tammy and I were the perfect team. Sure those memories really aren't enough. I want to go back in time and be with my wife again. But, in some small way those memories of Tammy allow me to at least function in an utterly sad world. I want to comment on you saying "It would be a disservice to Steve if I was not totally changed by this". Of course we are absolutely and forever changed by our loss. It's the worst thing that has happened in our lives on so many levels. The thing is, I honestly don't think Steve or Tammy would want our lives to be filled with misery. I suspect, without doubt, they'd want us to find some measure of happiness and some sense of comfort. And if they could talk to us, I imagine they'd want us to be the same person they fell in love with. All we can do though is try to live our lives a day at a time and see where this journey takes us. Easy, this is not. Hugs to you Gwen. You're a really good soul. Mitch I read this and remembered my husband saying, "I want you to live and be happy." The problem I think for me is that I actually feel pressure to live up to that and make sure I do it and I think I have been working overtime to fix this, live and be happy. That kind of request by our loved ones can backfire even though I know John really did/does want that for me. What I can't figure out is how to do what I need to do to get past this and be able to live and be happy....hugs to all, Cookie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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