Bubbling right beneath the surface...

[Margm]

3 hours ago, mittam99 said:

maybe you need to cut ties with your daughter

You know, I really pour out my feelings on here, sometimes too much.  Because of my mom, because of my dad, because of both my kids, I underwent 15 years of psychiatric care.  Some of this was caused from prescription drug use, but the rest was understanding my family and my two children who both had been diagnosed as bipolar.  My mom and dad were "different" as we all are.  I married to get out of there as fast as I could. (I was lucky)  My diagnoses for those two were borderline personality disorder and bipolar.  They never went to a shrink.  Mama was afraid of them and my dad, well, he would have gone but in those days it was not an easy thing to do.  My dad did Yoga to cope with his up and down moods that he did not understand, but now I see them as my own kids up and down moods and diagnoses.  My daughter is also borderline personality disorder.  This is characterized in a book named I Hate You, Don't Leave Me written awhile ago by Jerold Kreisman, MD.  It hurt me to read this book because I was reading about my mom and my daughter and also reading that there was not much I could do to help them..  

When I had cancer I was gone for long periods of time to the hospital in Houston.  My church (and Billy's brother) helped look after my 14-year-old daughter.  In fact, we found out when Kelli was 17, our married youth director had taken her under his own special care and she attempted suicide because he decided not to leave his wife.  My son went down to beat him up at the mission he was taking care of and he hid under the desk. (The church broke up). She has had many years of psychiatric care because of this.  We did what we could at that time and the man has not been able to hold a job and been in legal trouble otherwise also.  

Cutting ties with some relatives is not possible.  Unfortunately we do not have a back room to lock people like this in as they did in long ago days.

Myself, well I escaped with only chronic depression.  I seem to remember words from an Isley Brothers song and the words were "It's your thing, do what you wanta do."  In my case, I sing "It's your thing, do what you gotta do."

And my poor Billy, he would beg me not to engage fussing with Kelli and he endured our sniping back and forth.  Bless his heart, I look to Heaven now and I say "I'm listening to you Billy."  And, I have quit fussing with her.  

Mental illness is never easy on a family and somehow, I really think, it is harder on the person that is "different."

But, in reality, are we any different?  We all accept or don't accept this grief thrown upon us.  This is grief, not a mental illness, but in trying to understand mental illnesses, we also have to try to understand our own grief and whatever path we take, and it is not just like anyone else's.  "It's your thing, do what you gotta do."  

(And, I should not gripe so much, but I do, and I probably will keep on.)

[kayc]

Marg,

I understand.  My mom had every personality disorder known to man EXCEPT Bipolar.  She was the most difficult person I've ever encountered and I had to deal with it all my life!  Yet I loved her.  Sometimes I wondered why.  She was my mom.  Period.  I could never cut ties with one of my kids, no matter how much they hurt me, I just don't think I could do that...I understand sometimes we need to limit our contact with a relative (speaking from experience with my mom) to what we can handle, be it five minutes or an hour, once a week or once a month, we know what we can do without making ourselves frazzled.  But cut ties?  I couldn't.  It was tempting with my mom a time or two, but I never did.  She cut ties with me for a year once, but that was her decision, not mine.  It was a peaceful year but it hurt too.  How can it not?  

You've got it right that mental illness is not easy on a family.  I've learned so much as a result of having dealt with her all my life though.  I loved "Emotional Blackmail" and "Toxic Parents" and "Adult Children of Alcoholics"...they gave me my life back.  I remember "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", that was good.  I used to remind myself (often) that my mom was not in her right faculties, never had been.  I look forward to someday getting to know the real her, the her she was created to be, not the broken person that I knew and dealt with.  She was like this even as a child.  Highly Paranoid, Schizotypal, Antisocial, Borderline, Avoidant, Dependent, Obsessive/Compulsive, Narcissistic, and moderately Schizoid.  She was a mess!  To top it off, she was high in anxiety, neurotic, and insecure.  What my poor kids had for a grandmother!  But every time I felt sorry for them for that, I remembered, I had her for a mother and that was worse!  Still, she had her good points...she was an excellent housekeeper, landscaper, cook, and highly disciplined and regimented.  If she could have had a "chill pill" it would have helped...or better yet, marijuana.  My mom didn't get help until the end of her life when we took her to court to require her to get a full evaluation...it was a pretty thick docket!  No wonder we have no idea when her dementia started!  Her responses were always inappropriate, how would we know when they became dementia-inappropriate!  It wasn't until she forgot to wear her pants to the store or called 911 when she ran out of firewood or thought the "MCI man was driving by to show off his fancy car" or was confused between the insurance company and the bank, or blamed Obama (whom she pronounced Obamo) for not being able to jaywalk where she wanted to...that we realized she was fully going over the edge.

Dealing with my mother all my life has helped prepare me for having a DIL that doesn't treat me well...it seems inconsequential in comparison!  I keep trying for my son's sake and my granddaughter's and what else can I do?  I don't expect anything but I keep trying.

You see, you've got nothing on me...and to boot, my mom married brothers.  I do NOT recommend that!  It got us all estranged from our grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins so we grew up pretty much alone in spite of a large family in the same city.  My sisters didn't even get told of their own father's death or invited to his funeral.  Families can be pretty messed up!  I took enough counseling & therapy in my young adult life to last me a lifetime!  But I didn't get to quit working on it, I think it's a work in progress...life long.  The good thing is I see it as such, I never consider myself as "finished" working on myself.

You're fine, you're doing well considering everything and hey, if not, there's always Xanax, right?!   Love you, Marg!

[KarenK]

Marg,

I'm with you on the silk flowers, although the initial spray was fresh ones. In this heat, fresh ones last about 30 seconds.

It's funny, but I did not realize there was funeral "protocal". I never thought about being invited to one. I just assumed if you cared about the person, it was appropriate to attend. I guess funerals are for the living, not for the person you wish to honor.

[Widowedbysuicide]

Thinking of each of you posting here.

This struggle is definitely there, just barely below the surface all the time.  I don't want to get used to it.  It really doesn't matter what I want as what will be will be.

[Margm]

 I can joke about it and there are obviously some people that don't need it.  I look at it this way.  If I don't take it I die a miserable death, which is akin to suicide, because I know what will happen.  If I do take it, I am putting that one foot in front of the other, or rather I am straddling that line and just "moving on down that road.".  

[Widowedbysuicide]

It is Ativan for me.

[Margm]

Oh this is funny in a madcap way that I happen to be sometimes.   We already are not doing things according to my staunch Baptist 81-year-old uncle.  He accepts it, but you can see the horror in his face.  I was at Michael's  this morning.  I wanted two standing up flower arrangements.  They already have their flower arrangements, wreaths out for Halloween.  I passed by this lovely green, big round one with the banner across it "WITCH."  Oh my goodness, I cannot do that to my uncle.  He has not been in good health.  But my mind wanted to.  I called my sister and told her and she laughed but told me not to buy it.  (She knows me).

You see, "Syble" has the meaning of  sorceress or witch, and that is my mom's name.

[kayc]

1 hour ago, KarenK said:

I did not realize there was funeral "protocal". I never thought about being invited to one. I just assumed if you cared about the person, it was appropriate to attend. I guess funerals are for the living, not for the person you wish to honor.

For sure!  I think we have to respect the wishes of the family.  If they say only close family members, no matter how good a friend you were, you should not barge in.  Don't ask the family to make exceptions just for you.  If they want you there, they'll let you know.  A lot of times they have a funeral for "everyone" and graveside service for close family members only.  Most families do what the deceased specified they wanted, but not always.  You're right, they're for the living but should honor the dead somehow.

[Margm]

4 hours ago, kayc said:

You see, you've got nothing on me...and to boot, my mom married brothers.  I do NOT recommend that!  It got us all estranged from our grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins so we grew up pretty much alone in spite of a large family in the same city.  My sisters didn't even get told of their own father's death or invited to his funeral.  Families can be pretty messed up!  I took enough counseling & therapy in my young adult life to last me a lifetime!  But I didn't get to quit working on it, I think it's a work in progress...life long.  The good thing is I see it as such, I never consider myself as "finished" working on myself.

 

Kay, we actually had a bunch there.  I was given my certificate for my burial plot and Billy's.  I feel closer to the end already.  But, a couple of our friends have their memorial already fixed, but neither has passed away yet.  

Yes, I think you and I understand family dynamics.  And, sometimes it is like Ringling Brother's Circus, clowns and all.  But some how, even with all the bad things that have happened, I would only wish my Billy back with me.  I let everyone clear out and then I went over to Mama's grave and I told her "Mama, you are next to your only husband, none of the other four were real, and I miss you, the you that was you."  

 

[brat#2]

5 minutes ago, Marg M said:

 I told her "Mama, you are next to your only husband, none of the other four were real, and I miss you, the you that was you."  

 

Marg, that's beautiful.  I'm hoping now that you will be able to find some alone time and peace.  Hugs to you

Joyce

 

[kayc]

Marg, that really was beautiful.  (((hugs!)))

[mittam99]

On 8/16/2016 at 10:43 AM, Froggie4635 said:

The issue with me is I have this totally negative voice that lives in my head and instead of being supportive, tells me that I am just being lazy and unmotivated. I want so much to measure myself against some chart that can let me know I have felt this way long enough, to check off the final thing that allows me to move to a different level.  I am not sure who I am waiting to give me permission, to have the authority I need to tell me it is OKAY to feel sad this way, and unmotivated and stay to myself.  What does one do?

Maryann, unfortunately we all know there is no chart. This is a voyage into a completely new world for all of us. We approach uncharted territory every day of our life. None of us really know yet where this journey will take us. We are all works in progress.

That's why I always say this life is a one day at a time event. It's just doing the best you can in the moment and learning to be accepting of that. I understand the feeling of "I'm wasting my life away" or "I'm not accomplishing anything" and feeling somewhat guilty about it. But, who's to say we wouldn't feel just as guilty for doing too much? Sometimes it just feels like we're in a no-win situation. 

It all comes down to the fact that we're here and our beloved is gone. We ache for them, we want them to come back and then the reality of the empty chair or the empty side of the bed slams us back to reality. We're living in a world that feels like everything we need and everything we want is missing.

But I'm so blessed and I'm grateful that someone as wonderful as Tammy shared my life and chose to be my wife. The only thing that could ever separate us was death and I'm still coming to grips with that painful reality.

[iPraiseHim]

On 8/17/2016 at 2:58 PM, Marg M said:

Oh this is funny in a madcap way that I happen to be sometimes.   We already are not doing things according to my staunch Baptist 81-year-old uncle.  He accepts it, but you can see the horror in his face.  I was at Michael's  this morning.  I wanted two standing up flower arrangements.  They already have their flower arrangements, wreaths out for Halloween.  I passed by this lovely green, big round one with the banner across it "WITCH."  Oh my goodness, I cannot do that to my uncle.  He has not been in good health.  But my mind wanted to.  I called my sister and told her and she laughed but told me not to buy it.  (She knows me).

You see, "Syble" has the meaning of  sorceress or witch, and that is my mom's name.

Okay, Marg M.  You are cracking me up.  I'm laughing so hard out loud in my living room right now. ( alone).  Can you hear me laugh?  Your humor for real life is made for the TV drama.  It's good to laugh but it also hurts.  My family doesn't have as much drama... well except for my Dad and his peculiar views about God, Church, and religion. (he believes I worship the Devil because I go to church on Sunday.)  It makes for an interesting visit with him.  

[Margm]

3 hours ago, iPraiseHim said:

  It makes for an interesting visit with him

My family have always been Methodists on mom's folks side and Baptists on my dad's.  So, Baptist was okay with my mom.  I'll bet you and your dad do have interesting conversations.  I have always said me and my family were a little off the chart sometimes.  Sometimes we are not even on the chart period.  

Anyhow, it was a pretty wreath, but I did not get it.  I thought it enough of a shock my uncle meeting my daughter's transgender partner with tattoo's from her head to her toes.  I was late getting there but my sister said there was a lot of silence.  

[Margm]

On 8/17/2016 at 1:27 PM, kayc said:

What my poor kids had for a grandmother!

Billy's mom and dad were older going into our marriage.  My daughter never got to know Billy's dad.  My folks were the kind of grandparents that they were still very young and also never really cared to get to know their grandkids.  They were cold to my sister and me.  I  could not bear to leave them (my children) with them and they never asked.  Billy and myself, we were hands-on grandparents and loved having our grandkids around all the time.  Thus, we were trusted to keep them often, even raising one.  That was okay with us, our grandchildren were our delight.  So, they all liked to stay with us.  My mom and dad should never have married, should never have had kids.  I learned how to bait a hook by the time I could walk and talk and fishing was something I loved.  My sister was terrified.  She had the idea they wanted to drown her, so every time they got in the boat with them she was afraid.  (They actually were not that mean, just unable to get close to.)  Actually Kelli got close to her Maw and seemed to understand her after high school.  My mom loved her too.  Possibly they saw the same personality traits in each other.  Our kids loved Billy's mom very much but were young when they lost her.  

I think a lot of times that both of our families, and our own, were very dysfunctional.  But, if Cain killed Abel, we were not the first dysfunctional family.  

[kayc]

I didn't leave my kids with mine either because my mom was so abusive.  She didn't show much interest in them, when we got together she just talked and talked and the kids had to be quiet.  When my son gave his valedictorian speech at his high school graduation, she got up and walked out beforehand and made my sister take her home so she missed it.  If it'd been me I would have told her "Hell no, you're going to sit here until this is done!"  I never understood that, but she had to have all attention on her and couldn't handle my son having any attention (which he didn't want anyway)!  Yeah, we got some doozies!

My dad died before the kids were born and my MIL died when they were young so they got the two self-absorbed grandparents left to grow up around, but their paternal grandpa was sane at least, my mom was not.

[KATPILOT]

Perhaps your right Marg. Maybe they should never have married or had children yet had they not, you would never have been born therefor never have met Billy and so his life would never have been complete.

I think of my young life and how things my mom did that kind of messed me up yet somehow we turned out okay, Somehow all of us found a way to better ourselves and pass down to our grandchildren much happier memories. You've done alright Marg. You and Billy made a difference. 

I had to laugh to myself over what you said about Billy's parents and never babysitting. My first wife's parents were that way too and so during the only time my youngest son spent the night, he wet the bed and it was trauma central. I had to buy a new bed and yet it turned out to be two inches shorter than the original. OMG, that wouldn't do.  Talk about dysfunctional families! 

[Margm]

33 minutes ago, KATPILOT said:

Talk about dysfunctional families! 

 My son and his wife had two children.  When they spent the night with us the boy would sleep with Billy, the girl with me.  Mattresses to us were just to be comfortable.  I cannot remember if Febreze was invented back then (probably not), but my DIL's parents made them sleep on quilts on the floor if they spent the night with them, didn't want to take the chance with messing up their mattresses.  Now, this translates into cruelty to me.  Probably why we kept them more than the in-laws.  In later years, long after their divorce, my former DIL told my son that she had secretly wished Billy and I had been her parents.  Now, to me, that was the best compliment.  She was my daughter for nine years and I loved her very much.  It was not all her fault the marriage broke up.  My daughter (a former nurse) told us she had rather Brianna be with us when she was sick.  Kelli took lots of medicine for her bipolar and I understood this.  And, this granddaughter grew up as our own.  And, she still lives with me.  So, I have Billy's heart living with me, but one of these days she has to find her own heart.  She can take her time, no hurry.

Off subject, (but when have I ever been on subject), but this apartment living has come to life.  We are watching a marathon of the series Friends. They were all apartment dwellers.  Now I feel even more comforted by the noises from other apartments.  I can even relate to the laundry scenes in the crowded laundry room.

I have so much business to take care of.  This is Friday.  I want to procrastinate today.  I am tired.  I have laundry to do and I do have to go to the post office.  I am wanting to hibernate, to not leave the "compound.."  In other words, I don't want to do anything I really need to do.  "Fiddly Dee, I will think about that tomorrow".  

[kayc]

It's good to know we aren't alone, Steve!

Marg, I'm glad you are feeling  better in your new surroundings!

[mittam99]

Oh, does my head hurt.

I'm in the market for a new car and have been dealing with car dealerships the past couple weeks. I've had to stop looking for now because the stress of dealing with them is just compounding my sadness. I can feel my blood pressure rising. I guess I thought buying a car in 2016 might be less stressful then it used to be but it's the same old same old. I'll contact a dealer and ask them via email for their best price and unless I offer them a phone number they won't even reply. I simply won't play those games. So for now, I think I'll be running my current car into the ground simply because I'm no longer emotionally equipped to deal with bull$hit.

Of course if Tammy was still here, I could blow off steam and complain about the dealers to her and get some hugs which would have helped a bunch. Being alone is hard. Being alone and trying to make major decisions/changes is even harder.

Note to self: Grieving and car shopping do not mix very well.

 

[kayc]

Making any major decisions (or minor ones for that matter) and grieving do not mix.  I find I am constantly having to deal with things and wishing George was here, if not to make the decision, to at least talk it over with or vent to...I could always trust him to understand and care.  Like the Elec. company telling me Thursday that eight trees I planted 20 years ago have to go.  That out of the blue after going on 40 years of living here!  I was really caught off guard.  And I suppose I'll have to fight them to clean up their mess or not break my well with their equipment.  I hate contractors.  Did I say I hate contractors!  Not fun!

Sorry it's been such a hassle, Mitch.  It kind of takes the fun out of getting a new car...it SHOULD be fun, not stressful.

[mittam99]

Kay, that doesn't bode well for life getting easier if even at 11 years out you're still struggling with things like that.

[Gwenivere]

I don't know if I will ever adapt to having to do things by myself now.  I couldn't tackle a car right now either or the city on my property.  I have a contractor coming tomorrow to do lots of repairs on my deck, but plan to stay as uninvolved as possible.  Last night my phone line developed static so loud it was almost impossible to use.  Now I am stuck with a tech coming Monday to check inside the house as they ran tests outside.  Have to give up a volunteer day for this.  Normally Steve would meet with the guy so I could carry on as usual.  Even the slightest curves can send one off the very delicate rails they are on.  Altho things are very different, I have set some routines in place to keep me sane.  When those are compromised I feel very out of control, lost and frightened.  It's a sad way to live.

[brat#2]

15 minutes ago, Gwenivere said:

I don't know if I will ever adapt to having to do things by myself now.  

Altho things are very different, I have set some routines in place to keep me sane.  When those are compromised I feel very out of control, lost and frightened.  It's a sad way to live.

Yes it is a sad way to live and I completely understand what you are feeling!

Joyce

 

[Margm]

36 minutes ago, Gwenivere said:

When those are compromised I feel very out of control, lost and frightened

When I have to do stuff that I am afraid of I look to the heavens and tell Billy "I just don't know."  Does not matter what it is, "I just don't know."  I don't know how to do it, I don't know what to do, I don't want to know how to do it.  "I just don't know."  But, I get it done.  Not Hooray for me, not anything.  Not happy with myself.  Next time I have to do something I will just look toward the heavens and say "I don't know" again.  Because I don't know.  We aren't having a whole lot of fun are we.